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Florida considering banning plastic/paper bags

post #1 of 38
1/18/10 at 11:42am
Thread Starter 
So, the state of Florida is considering taxing and then eventually eliminating paper and plastic bags from grocery stores. http://www.floridatoday.com/article/...+about+neither
This is one tax that, IMO, can easily be avoided with the use of reusable bags, which IMO, we should already be using.

I admit to forgetting my reuseables at times and purposely getting the plastic ones sometimes for kitty litter use, but in general I am all for the government getting in on this one. I mean, of all the things that can be taxed - this one will actually help cut down on waste.

It turns out that most of the reaction to this article was negative, which suprised me. What do you think?
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post #2 of 38
1/18/10 at 11:51am
We use reusable bags or a wicker basket. The grocery stores here don't have paper bags and charge for plastic ones, and most people seem to be in the habit of bringing their own bags. It's no big deal to keep a folded bag in your pocket, purse, backpack or car.
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post #3 of 38
1/18/10 at 12:01pm
Personally I'm more against this then for it. I can see your point in cutting waste, BUT for those of us who do monthly grocery shopping and have 2 carts full (we have to stock up - closest store is 1/2 drive for us), the idea of using the "renewable" bags would not work at all. Do you know how many of them we would have to buy? And what if we go with the bags and not have enough? And how will they tell if you are using your own bags or not?

We usually come home with 20-30 bags of things from our shopping. It would be a disadvantage to us in many ways.
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post #4 of 38
1/18/10 at 12:05pm
I'm at the same disadvantage as GK - we are 30 minutes from the nearest grocery store. I mean, yes, there is one in town - but they do not carry much as the town has less than 1,000 people! It would be a PITA for me to have to buy all reusable bags, as often on grocery runs we are buying for several weeks at a time.

Yes - I use reusable bags, but if I don't have enough it's nice to know I can get paper or plastic ones.
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post #5 of 38
1/18/10 at 12:07pm
Can you get collapsible plastic crates? I know a lot of people who use them for big shopping trips.
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post #6 of 38
1/18/10 at 12:07pm
I bulk shop, too, and wonder how you'd manage that. I don't even want to know what would happen if you handed reusable bags to some of the baggers around here. They'd probably stare at you stupidly.
That said, we save every bag (unless it's bloody) and reuse them for a lot of things. If our area actually had options for recycling we'd do that with any plastics we didn't reuse. I often have to bag my own groceries locally (because the baggers do just stand around) and that allows me to fit more into less bags and not end up with anything crushed..

I don't see paper as much of an issue. They're usually made from recycled paper and any paper that is thrown out breaks down easily enough. Though, I usually save paper bags to make patterns out of.

For those who do need several reusable cloth bags, do look into making your own.
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post #7 of 38
1/18/10 at 12:15pm
I always re use plastic bags when I do get them, I use them for trash in smaller trash cans where they fit perfectly, and I also always use them to put the clumps after I scoop litter in them..

I don't think taxing bags is a bad idea, but it seems like it isn't the best solution to getting people to stop using paper/plastic bags. Rather than taxing, the government could provide an incentive for people to start bringing their own bags in a different way.

At Aldi for example, they advertise themselves as not only environment friendly, but they also say they save you money by having much lower prices, since they don't have to pay for the plastic or paper bags that other stores provide for free to customers. It is easy to just bring your reusable bag, I know I'd rather bring it every day and pay less for groceries, which is why I like Aldi. It seems like a much better solution than just taxing people.
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post #8 of 38
1/18/10 at 12:26pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Personally I'm more against this then for it. I can see your point in cutting waste, BUT for those of us who do monthly grocery shopping and have 2 carts full (we have to stock up - closest store is 1/2 drive for us), the idea of using the "renewable" bags would not work at all. Do you know how many of them we would have to buy? And what if we go with the bags and not have enough? And how will they tell if you are using your own bags or not?

We usually come home with 20-30 bags of things from our shopping. It would be a disadvantage to us in many ways.
I can see how you would be more inconvenienced than most. You may find that in some ways reusable bags are an advantage though. I have 2 insulated bags that would really come in handy for keeping groceries cold for a long trip. My reusables hold a lot more than the plastic bags do, so you wouldn't need as many as you may think.

I imagine that if you didn't bring enough, you could buy new ones at the same store. Boxes can also be used. Aldi's gives away boxes to customers that don't bring bags.
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post #9 of 38
1/18/10 at 12:29pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat View Post
We use reusable bags or a wicker basket. The grocery stores here don't have paper bags and charge for plastic ones, and most people seem to be in the habit of bringing their own bags. It's no big deal to keep a folded bag in your pocket, purse, backpack or car.
Yup, I think it's just something we need to get into the habit of doing.
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post #10 of 38
1/18/10 at 12:59pm
I'm all for the banning of plastic bags -- particularly those that are not bio-degradable. I feel less strongly about paper.

I don't find it difficult at all to have re-useable cloth bags available. The tote I carry regularly has four, and there are several in the car. As somebody mentioned, they hold a LOT more than the average supermarket plastic -- what would require half a dozen of those, sometimes double bagged, usually goes into two cloth ones with no problem.

Lots of our local merchants are very much on this bandwagon, offering their own cloth bags at reasonable prices, and every so often having a small promotion, a free bag for every $25 worth of purchases. I have paid for maybe half of the bags I have.
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post #11 of 38
1/18/10 at 1:07pm
BTW we have a Toyota - not a SUV where you can stack things. Our Toyota is getting 35-40 mpg - no way am I trading vehicles

If we are getting more frozen things in the warmer months, we sometimes will bring a cooler or two to put those that kind of stuff in.

We do reuse our plastic bags for many things. Paper bags would not be so bad - we can deal with carrying 20-30 paper bags
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post #12 of 38
1/18/10 at 1:28pm
Maybe some type of deposit and return program could be implemented on the cloth bags. If you don't have your own bags, the grocery store provides you with cloth bags at some nominal deposit fee, maybe 25-50 cents per bag. Next time you come back, you can hand the old bags back to the clerk and get part of the money refunded or else just use the same bags again at no charge.
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post #13 of 38
1/18/10 at 3:06pm
Costco uses the boxes that stuff comes to them in to pack up smaller items into groups for the customer. Other stores could do that too. Between that and reusable bags, I don't see any reason why most disposable paper and plastic bags should be necessary; the exception I can think of is stores with bulk buy items, because for those, you really do need the packaging to be as light as possible to avoid cheating the customer.
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post #14 of 38
1/18/10 at 4:40pm
Just what am I supposed to use to pick up my dog yard waste, hmm? this is THE best scooper and is the one I use.....
http://scoopandsackit.com/Products.htm
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post #15 of 38
1/18/10 at 5:15pm
Good point Ally - I forgot about our dog. We use the plastic bags in a trash can and then empty them into larger bags for the regular trash. Can't be putting dog poop in "reusable" bags can we?????
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post #16 of 38
1/18/10 at 7:52pm
This is one of those "maybe it works, and maybe it doesn't." I know when plastic bags were eliminated in Ireland, our Irish friends all asked us to send them our bags for all the things they used to use them for.

In addition, it's been found that eliminating the plastic bags can actually end up requiring that delivery trucks use more fuel delivering heavier reusable bags, etc. Actual studies have shown this not to be the big winner it sounds like at first.
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post #17 of 38
1/18/10 at 8:57pm
I have four couples who save every plastic bag they get from the grocery store for me. I double bag litter and probably use 8-10 a day. I'm not sure what I'll do when I can't do that. I've considered asking DH if he can take the tractor and dig a HUGE pit (up by the neighbor's house that has the dogs that bark 24-7) and once that gets full we could, like maybe, move or something.

I have a small cloth grocery bag that I actually use as a purse. Man, you'd be surprised what some grocery clerks have tried to put in there. Oh.....wait!

Stores and/or some clever inventor will come up with a better solution for transporting groceries. Hmmm.... I may even give it some thought. But sorry, I'm against a "tax". If you have to, just outlaw them completely. Someone will come up with a better mousetrap. (which will eventually be suspect of causing cancer )
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post #18 of 38
1/18/10 at 9:13pm
I have several cloth bags but usually forget to bring them to the store. The store I shop at takes 5 cents off the grocery bill for every bag we bring. But we do reuse the plastic bags we get.
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post #19 of 38
1/18/10 at 9:20pm
Most plastic shopping bags are illegal in my state. Reusable bags are only 60-99c, bio-degradable bags are 25c each.

People complained at first, but got used to it. Bags were phased out over several months.
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post #20 of 38
1/19/10 at 7:27am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinder View Post
I have four couples who save every plastic bag they get from the grocery store for me. I double bag litter and probably use 8-10 a day. I'm not sure what I'll do when I can't do that. I've considered asking DH if he can take the tractor and dig a HUGE pit (up by the neighbor's house that has the dogs that bark 24-7) and once that gets full we could, like maybe, move or something.
I don't blame you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinder View Post
I have a small cloth grocery bag that I actually use as a purse. Man, you'd be surprised what some grocery clerks have tried to put in there. Oh.....wait!

Stores and/or some clever inventor will come up with a better solution for transporting groceries. Hmmm.... I may even give it some thought. But sorry, I'm against a "tax". If you have to, just outlaw them completely. Someone will come up with a better mousetrap. (which will eventually be suspect of causing cancer )
I use mine for kitty litter too (just for 2 cats, though). I think that most people just throw them away and a tax would make them think twice about it. I realize that I would have to purchase litter bags, but to me it is a small sacrifice. For you it would be a larger one. I'd buy the cheapest small bags available. I don't think I'd spend more than $2.50 and that would probably last me a few weeks.
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post #21 of 38
1/19/10 at 8:44am
I have 4 of the reusable bags that I use. Sometimes we will need a couple plastic bags for whatever doesn't fit, but I use those for scooping litter so I wouldn't want to see them done away with completely.

If the tax was very small, then the 5 cents credit I get for the reusable one would probably even it out.
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post #22 of 38
1/19/10 at 10:31am
I quit using the grocery bags for cat litter a few months ago. My biggest problem with them was that 3 out of 4 had a hole in the bag, so I was always running out. I've started using 8 gallon trash bags for my scooping now. I can get about 3 days worth of scooping (for 4 cats) into one, so I figure that's less plastic going into the landfill.
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post #23 of 38
1/19/10 at 12:10pm
They banned plastic bags in Toronto, Ontario at the end of last year. Many people made a fuss at the beginning but adapted. If a city with 3 million people can make the change, so can most.

And for bulk shoppers, you just purchase the plastic crates, or reusable bags or just use the cardboard boxes that stores get produce in. When there's a will there's a way.

As others have said, it's easy to keep cloth bags in the car. At our main supermarkets, they sell both cloth bags and plastic crates to carry your groceries in and transfer to your car.

If you don't have a bag with you, then you are charged 5 cents per bag.

People don't like change. When they first brought out recycling, people didn't want to do it, but they did it. Then, when composting came out the same reaction and now organic recycling. Toronto now has blue bin and grey bin recycling, organic recycling and bi-weekly garbage pick up.

The recent change from plastic to reusable bags was the easiest transition.
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post #24 of 38
1/19/10 at 12:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grogs View Post
I quit using the grocery bags for cat litter a few months ago. My biggest problem with them was that 3 out of 4 had a hole in the bag, so I was always running out. I've started using 8 gallon trash bags for my scooping now. I can get about 3 days worth of scooping (for 4 cats) into one, so I figure that's less plastic going into the landfill.
This is what I do... only with the 15 gallon kitchen tall bags. I use a good kitchen type trash can with a nice tight lid and I can get away with saving up a few days worth of used cat litter in it before I need to take it out to the trash. It's still not ideal as I'm still putting another trash bag in the landfill but it's better than using 3 or 4 or those supermarket bags a day.

As for reusable grocery bags... I them. Not only do they hold more groceries but they fit much nicer in the trunk of my car... and I too have a compact car. I also no longer have cans rolling around trunk when the plastic bags inevitably fall over and spill their contents. I normally go shopping twice a month and have a full cart when I am done. I take 5 or 6 bags with me and most of my stuff will fit in all those bags although I do have to remind the checkout person that they can put more than 3 or 4 items in a bag . I still ask them to put some items in the plastic ones... but that is only if I am running low since I use them for small trash cans or for sending stuff home with people.

Personally I hate throwing things out, and if I wasn't using the cloth bags, that is exactly what I would be doing with the extra plastic bags, even if I was using them for litter.
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post #25 of 38
1/20/10 at 8:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allmycats View Post
Just what am I supposed to use to pick up my dog yard waste, hmm? this is THE best scooper and is the one I use.....
http://scoopandsackit.com/Products.htm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Good point Ally - I forgot about our dog. We use the plastic bags in a trash can and then empty them into larger bags for the regular trash. Can't be putting dog poop in "reusable" bags can we?????
You buy bio-degradable bags made specifically for that purpose.

As Russian said, we are charged 5 cents per plastic bag if we do not bring our own bags. Costco doesn't use bags, just the boxes their products came in. We all have a responsibility to make our planet as green as possible. Inconvenience should not be an excuse not to.

In some areas, (Brampton is one), the residents are not allowed to use the plastic bags for cat and dog waste, owners must buy the bio-degradable ones.
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post #26 of 38
1/20/10 at 9:36am
Isn't a paper bag bio-degradable?
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post #27 of 38
1/20/10 at 4:13pm
Before my husband, son, and I moved to Chicago and got rid of our car, we used laundry baskets to tote our large grocery orders and cloth bags when we were just buying a few things.

Now that we live in Chicago without a car, we either use our cloth bags or the personal shopping cart we bought and lined with one large plastic bag from IKEA. On occasion we'll get plastic bags, but that's only if we make an impromptu shopping trip and don't have a reusable bag on hand.
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post #28 of 38
1/24/10 at 12:33pm
Since I walk to and from the store most of the time, fabric bags work for all but heavy items ... For those I have a grannie cart, a tall wire or clothe cart with two wheels and handles.. I still use the plastic bags for all kinds of things , like reusing them and getting 5 cents a bag refund at the store, cat litter for the girls ( boys use 8 gallon bags), packing and separating.... Soon I will use my trike which will make the cloth bags way easier , I have a huge rear basket and a small detachable front basket. My huge plastic/ cloth costco bags will be great for the rear.

I would not want to be forced to use just one kind of bag.
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post #29 of 38
1/25/10 at 8:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockcat View Post
So, the state of Florida is considering taxing and then eventually eliminating paper and plastic bags from grocery stores. http://www.floridatoday.com/article/...+about+neither
This is one tax that, IMO, can easily be avoided with the use of reusable bags, which IMO, we should already be using.

I admit to forgetting my reuseables at times and purposely getting the plastic ones sometimes for kitty litter use, but in general I am all for the government getting in on this one. I mean, of all the things that can be taxed - this one will actually help cut down on waste.

It turns out that most of the reaction to this article was negative, which suprised me. What do you think?
I am ALL for this! And in addition, I think they should do the very SAME thing for disposable diapers.
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post #30 of 38
2/21/10 at 6:25pm
Americans are already taxed to death. I am not in favor of tax on plastic bags. Just outlaw them and go back to paper bags. Honestly the things our lawmakers can sit around and think of. They are pencil pushers.
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