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Horrible case

post #1 of 55
Thread Starter 
At 10:30 Sunday morning, Tucson police received a 911 call, about a woman screaming or from a screaming woman (unclear which). Upon making a "welfare check' at the scene, they found a 6-month-old baby, in a car, in obvious distress. The temperature, at that time was 96 and the interior of the car was about 110. The baby was pronounced dead at the hospital, at 11:21. The death has been ruled heat-related.

The baby's mother, Dalina Gutierrez, 21, arrived home at 5:00 a.m. and went into the house and went to sleep. When she awoke at about 10:30, she realized that she had "forgotten" the baby in the car. She had "remembered" to take her 3-year-old in. Her 6-year-old was with her mother.

Gutierrez is being held on $1 million bail at the County Jail, on suspicion of child abuse. Her 6-year-old and 3-year-old have been taken into custody by Child Protective Services.

Police did not state where the mother had been, prior to going home but, I remember where I was and what I was doing, when I came stumbling home at 5:00 a.m. at that age.

This sort of thing happens, every year. Our temperatures routinely top 100 and cars' interior temps came soar to over 200, in a short amount of time. At least two or three kids die each year, from being left in cars. In addition to being illegal, it can be fatal.
post #2 of 55
OMG that is so sad.
post #3 of 55
How horrible for that poor baby and the rest of her family!
post #4 of 55
Oh that made my blood run cold.

Stupid, stupid people. Why can't they take responsibility for their kids, pets or even their own lives?

Too right she's been held on child abuse charges - these dumb women are 'smart' enough to fall pregnant but too thick to have any concept of looking after their kids once they arrive.
post #5 of 55
That is horrible. How can anyone "forget" their baby? With such an irresponsible mother, the other kids are better off being put in foster care.
post #6 of 55
I don't have kids myself, but I would think that if I did I would not forget one and leave it in the car, what kind of irresponsible person do you have to be to forget that you have left a child sitting in the car!!
post #7 of 55
Omg How could you FORGET your baby in the car???
post #8 of 55
This IS horrible. And sadly enough it does happen all the time. I have no idea how you could forget your baby like that. I just can't imagine.
post #9 of 55
Like the others have said..HOW IN THE WORLD COULD YOU FORGET YOUR CHILD? Sounds to me like she was high or drunk...

Why is that people like her can have children by the handsful, but yet parents who want child so badly can't have them? That just doesn't seem right in my eyes!
post #10 of 55
I'm with you Shell.

I could never ever forget my child. Hell, I'm extremely paranoid about my cats when I'm not home for long periods of time. I fret over them and am extremely over protective. Even Craig tells me that I'm gonna have a full head of gray hair by the time I reach age 30 from worrying over these boys.

"Forgetting" is not a valid reason and its no excuse. You don't forgot your own flesh and blood.
post #11 of 55
Someone needs to leave the mother in the car. I do not know how anyone could just forget their 6 month old in a car. That is the lamest and sorriest excuse I have ever heard.
post #12 of 55
I'm sure with some gigantic, unimaginable stretch of logic the mother managed to rationalize that leaving her baby in the car was a good idea....

Why do people have babies when they don't want them?
post #13 of 55
Thread Starter 
This is another case of irresponsible and indiscrimainate breeding. She's 21 and has three kids - the oldest is 6. Some people should have been neutered at birth!
post #14 of 55
Cases like that really get me worked up. Unfortunately, it happens everywhere, every year. It sounds to me as if she was just too lazy to bring the baby inside, or drunk or high. I really wonder how some people's minds work (assuming that they do). A few years back, a woman in Japan put her baby in a subway locker and went off to play pachinko. We've had a couple of cases in Germany where mom has gone off to stay with her boyfriend for a couple of days, and left the toddlers alone. Result: death due to dehydration or starvation. Either these people shouldn't have had kids in the first place, or, if the kids are already there, they should put them up for adoption ASAP.
post #15 of 55
That is so sad. Sounds like a prime case for sterilization to me... unfortunately, too much damage has already been done.
post #16 of 55
Being intelligent doesn't make a good parent necessarily. There are cases of neglect/abuse along all levels of intellignece and wealth. Some of the best and most caring parents are people who may not be the swiftest mentally, but have an abundance of caring. All of this talk of sterlization really bothers me - it is all very Big Brotherish. Who is to decide who breeds and doesn't breed. It is an inalienable right to control your own body. IMO forcing someone to be sterlized because they have many children and are a drain on the system is as bad as rape. You are taking away their right to rule their own bodies. While we may not agree with their "breeding" choices, as long as the necessary love and care are given to the children then they can have as many kids as they want. Instead of sterlization, if care cannot be provided by the birth family, then adoption.
post #17 of 55
I know a mother and father who both have Down Syndrome and they are actually great parents, but they are not as intellignet as most people. You shouldn't have to pass an IQ test to havkids!
post #18 of 55
We live in a society that chooses to have support programs to help these people. I, personally, would rather live in a society that does offers social support then one where none is available. If you don't agree with the social support programs in your area, lobby your politicians or become one yourself.
post #19 of 55
Young boys die in sweltering SUV


I don't know what is wrong with people these days. Some should not be allowed to propagate. Only because you can does not mean you are responsible enough. You need to take a test to get a drivers license for goodness sake but we can have babies indiscriminately and not be responsible enough to care for them. Oh, yes, and only when something like this happens (after the fact) are they required to take parenting classes?????

The "woman" and I use the term lightly - runs a day care. She left the boys in the SUV thinking that someone else, possibly her husband, would get them? "It was miscommunication????????

I know she has to live with this the rest of her live - but the boys don't have live left to live.

In my opinion she should spend the rest of her life behind bars without the possibility of parol - death would be too easy!!! What do you think??
post #20 of 55
Ok I am going to say this once,my son and his wife gave birth a year ago to a baby with (DOWM"S).now my son and his wife were only 25 & 19. They had no idea they were going to have a baby with this,now are you saying they should'nt have anymore kids? Because they might another one? Sarah is a sweet child,and right behind my other grandchilder born at the same time,(other son)Should my DIL be forced to be fixed,so she might never have any more kids? I think not!The DR."s say it proubly won't happen again. And what about Sarah? She might grow up and have a child of her own,should she be forced to be fixed? I think not!!!
post #21 of 55
A foster mother who runs a daycare center (in CA?) "forgot" her two sons in the car at 38 degrees C.. The five-year-old was dead when found, the 3-year-old died shortly afterwards. How can you forget your kids for five hours????
post #22 of 55
post #23 of 55
Among all the other despicable things he did, Hitler had mentally impaired people sterilized against their will. Do we really want to follow his example? I think not. Sherral, the town next to ours has a school for children with Down Syndrome. A lot of families have moved here for that reason, and I have contact with many of the former pupils there, because they ride the same train I do in the morning. They work, manage perfectly well with little or no supervision, and lead normal lives. Don't let anyone tell you that your granddaughter doesn't have the right to grow up and have a life much like anyone else's.
post #24 of 55
I cannot imagine leaving my kids in the car alone for any reason. What are these people thinking? I can't imagine even letting an animal of mine in a hot car alone. How can you forget you have kids?
post #25 of 55
I just merged the 3 threads as they are along the same topic.
post #26 of 55
Originally posted by Tybalt
and deal with it as individuals.

Do you, okeefecl, feel that if you have children that you cannot support, that you have a moral right to take money from me and my family against our will to feed them?
Honestly? I don't have an answer for that. I have known people on both sides of the argument and can't give you an answer.

What I realized after my last post is that we are arguing two different parts of this argument. Your objection is to supporting people who cannot support their kids. And as I just said, I don't have an argument against that. Point to you.

What I object to was the solution you suggested (and I'm not saying that you truly believe it, I can't read your mind). I have many objections to the suggestion that people who cannot support their children should be sterilized. You suggested certain criteria for people who want to have children, and although I may have played the "race card", I still think that in our society in America, today, as it is, those criteria would prohibit a number of black, hispanic or other minority people from having children. I don't think you're a racist, and I'm sorry if I implied that. But we have to be honest here, the deck is stacked against minorities when it comes to education and jobs (education and financial ability to support children). This is what I objected to in your arguement.

I'm also a geneticist (I have my Ph.D. in Genetics), and genetics as a field has some black marks against it, particularly when it comes to eugenics (what I referred to in an earlier post). Although intelligence, personality and criminality all have a genetic component, it has become very clear that these personality traits are also tempered by upbringing (nurturing). So to say that uneducated and poor parents can't raise intelligent (and potentially rich) children is untrue. It's equally as untrue to say that intelligent, educated and financially solvent parents will raise the same type of children.
post #27 of 55
But Tybalt, that isn't how it works. No one comes to your house and says "You have to personally take care of this particular person and their offspring." It is a collective agreement that we as a society have chosen to make. Is it out of control in some cases? Most definitely, yes. At the same time, as a civilized society we have collectively decided that we are not going to let people die and rot in the streets (although it does still happen that way sometimes). We have decided that we will help those less fortunate who, hopefully, will take the help and better themselves and their lives and the lives of their children.

Tybalt, I would say most of the people on this board have a strong work ethic. We are willing to do whatever it takes to take care of our own. Some people are not able to do that.

Obviously, we all know there are many people who abuse the system popping out kid after kid to get a better check. At least recognize that not EVERYONE who is on welfare is taking advantage of the system.

Besides, back to the latest case....that woman wasn't on welfare, living off of the State. She owned or at least ran her own business, so she couldn't have been horribly lacking in intelligence. She was a foster parent, and those people are screened to at least have the capability of caring for children financially and intellectually. She still managed to "forget" and kill two small children in her care. She actually is the best argument that people who don't necessarily fit your description are still incapable of being responsible with children.
post #28 of 55
Tybalt, lot of people who have kid's,proubley(SP) thought they could all ways take care of the kids they had.But things happen,job lose ect... At that point,I would hope you would not be upset at having to help feed that child! Or childern.Or house them.
post #29 of 55
Originally posted by Tybalt
I'm talking about sterilizing women who give birth to children addicted to crack or heroin; (Premie ward nurses know that children born addicted to heroin have a disctinctive mewing sound, called Crie du Chat Syndrome, "cry of the cat.") Parents so stupid that they leave children to die in overheated cars; or how about this gem of a mother:
Cri du chat is not in any way shape or form related to drug-addicted babies. Cri du Chat is a rare chromosomal disorder:

From http://www.fivepminus.org/about.htm
Each year in the United States, approximately 50 to 60 children are born with 5p- Syndrome (five p minus), also known as Cat Cry Syndrome or Cri du Chat Syndrome. 5p- Syndrome is characterized at birth by a high pitched cry, low birth weight, poor muscle tone, microcephaly, and potential medical complications. "5p-" is a term used by geneticists to describe a portion of chromosome number five that is missing in these individuals.
post #30 of 55
Thread Starter 
It almost happened again. On Thursday, a couple left their four-month-old son in the car, while they had lunch in a restaurant. This was in upscale Oro Valley. The outside temp, at 1:00 p.m., was 102. The baby was in the car, for approximately an hour. A restaurant employee saw the baby and called 911.

CPS took custody of the baby and the parents were cited for child neglect. A medical checkup turned up no damage. The baby was returned to the parents, yesterday.

When my kids were small, they were the FIRST things, removed from the car. I would put them in their crib or playpen, while I unloaded.
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