Grain fillers in cat food

whammytap · Jan 10, 2010

So here's what I'm wondering: 'Store-brand' cat foods like Purina, Meow Mix, etc. generally contain corn or wheat fillers. 'Premium-brand' cat foods like Wellness, Castor and Pollux, etc. contain brown rice and potato fillers. Even some 'premium' brands such as IAMS or Science Diet have corn as the first ingredient.

Cats have not evolved to eat corn, wheat, rice, OR potatoes. What makes the latter two so much better than the former two? And why fruits and vegetables? What are commercial cat foods lacking in meat (a cat's natural diet) that needs to be made up for in plant food? I understand that cats in nature occasionally chew grass, but come on.

Also, rice is a grain. Why do cat foods that advertise themselves as 'grain-free' still have rice in them?

I'm not trying to start a riot here (as I apparently did with my last post on this same subject) but is there a feline nutritionist in the house?

chris10 · Jan 11, 2010

Originally Posted by whammytap

but is there a feline nutritionist in the house?

Nope, just a lot of wannabes. Including myself.

I think feline nutritionists are a rare breed

Originally Posted by whammytap

Cats have not evolved to eat corn, wheat, rice, OR potatoes. What makes the latter two so much better than the former two? And why fruits and vegetables?

For the most part,IMO, you are correct. My question is can you provide a reason why cats produce amylase?

Meat means $$$$$ while plant products are generally $.

Plant products can take care of most protien, energy, and vitamins/minerals. But there may be concern regarding if the body can efficiently handle some of these materials.

Not sure if you have searched this forum. But I think some of these topics have been debated.
Take care

carolina · Jan 11, 2010

Originally Posted by whammytap

So here's what I'm wondering: 'Store-brand' cat foods like Purina, Meow Mix, etc. generally contain corn or wheat fillers. 'Premium-brand' cat foods like Wellness, Castor and Pollux, etc. contain brown rice and potato fillers. Even some 'premium' brands such as IAMS or Science Diet have corn as the first ingredient.

Cats have not evolved to eat corn, wheat, rice, OR potatoes. What makes the latter two so much better than the former two? And why fruits and vegetables? What are commercial cat foods lacking in meat (a cat's natural diet) that needs to be made up for in plant food? I understand that cats in nature occasionally chew grass, but come on.

Also, rice is a grain. Why do cat foods that advertise themselves as 'grain-free' still have rice in them?

I'm not trying to start a riot here (as I apparently did with my last post on this same subject) but is there a feline nutritionist in the house?

To answer your question: There is not a Feline Nutritionist on the house. I remember a lot of these questions were already answered on the other thread...
I never seen an advertised grain free food contain with rice - can you please post which food you are talking about?
Some grains are more digestible than others, and some are less allergenic than others. Potatoes, in a grain free food is used to keep the food together. Rice and Potatoes are more digestible than wheat and corn, and also less allergenic. Also it is my understanding that white rice is more easily digested than brown rice.
Some foods have a LOT of meat, but they are not found in supermarket shelves - you need to know how to look in the ingredient list, and they are usually sold in smaller pet food/pet products stores.
The foods I feed are Very high in meat, and the protein comes from it... Very very low in carb. 50% protein (from meat), less than 10% carbs (from vegetables and fruits), and of course grain free...
As far as IAMS and Science Diet, in my opinion they are hardly premium, only on price...
You will hear a lot of opinions here...
Do your research - it seems to me that you are posting a rhetorical question...
The pet food industry and research is ever evolving... But in the end there are MANY MANY options out there.... There is dry, mixed dry and wet, wet, raw...
IMO what is important is to find something that your pet thrive in it, but also fits your schedule and your budget. The food that meets all these requirements, that is the best food, IMO.

sweetpea24 · Jan 11, 2010

It's a question of bioavailability - can a cat derive any nutrients from plants (including fruits and veggies)? As an obligate carnivore, a cat needs meat to meets all its nutritional needs. Yes, plant products provide protein but not a complete protein so you'd have to mix a plant protein with a grain protein. For example, a legume would have to be paired with a grain like rice to get a complete protein. Plus there are other nutrients a cat needs that meat provides. Can cats really digest fruits and veggies? I don't know. There is not enough money to fund extensive research into pet food nutrition (unless you are Hills or Medi-cal or Purina I guess). IMO, for a study on pet food nutrition to be viable, it would have to be a long term one to see reliable results. Which is too bad considering the pet population and the billions of dollars reaped by the pet industry.

addiebee · Jan 11, 2010

In order to get dry kibble to "hang together" the pet food companies need some kind of binding agent... whether it is wheat, corn, rice, potatoes, etc. They are also used for cost reasons. I also don't know why some foods trumpet the fact they have cranberries or whatever in them. Do cats need that? I would guess not. That is marketing for US humans.

As other posters have indicated - corn, wheat and soy are high on the list of possible allergens/intolerances for cats. Some handle it; some don't. So changing to a dry food with fewer allergic type intolerances is one reason to go "grain-free."

Many "grain-free" will have potato or pea or both in them as a binding agent and also as somewhat of a protein source. My concern with white potato- and I do not know how this works with cats - can spike blood sugar in humans. Pea to me is a somewhat better choice.

If you are concerned about grains or any other fillers in a cat's food - feed wet exclusively or switch to a raw diet. Stick with pate or loaf style wet as they are less likely to have grain or starchy fillers and thickeners. Even Fancy Feast aka kitty crack has varieties with no grain. Lots of other junk.. but no grain!

ETA: I also am not a feline nutritionist.. .just a concerned cat lover and foster mom.

sharky · Jan 11, 2010

Originally Posted by AddieBee

In order to get dry kibble to "hang together" the pet food companies need some kind of binding agent... whether it is wheat, corn, rice, potatoes, etc. They are also used for cost reasons. I also don't know why some foods trumpet the fact they have cranberries or whatever in them. Do cats need that? I would guess not. That is marketing for US humans.

As other posters have indicated - corn, wheat and soy are high on the list of possible allergens/intolerances for cats. Some handle it; some don't. So changing to a dry food with fewer allergic type intolerances is one reason to go "grain-free."

Many "grain-free" will have potato or pea or both in them as a binding agent and also as somewhat of a protein source. My concern with white potato- and I do not know how this works with cats - can spike blood sugar in humans. Pea to me is a somewhat better choice.

If you are concerned about grains or any other fillers in a cat's food - feed wet exclusively or switch to a raw diet. Stick with pate or loaf style wet as they are less likely to have grain or starchy fillers and thickeners. Even Fancy Feast aka kitty crack has varieties with no grain. Lots of other junk.. but no grain!

ETA: I also am not a feline nutritionist.. .just a concerned cat lover and foster mom.

Originally Posted by carolinalima

To answer your question: There is not a Feline Nutritionist on the house. I remember a lot of these questions were already answered on the other thread...
I never seen an advertised grain free food contain with rice - can you please post which food you are talking about?
Some grains are more digestible than others, and some are less allergenic than others. Potatoes, in a grain free food is used to keep the food together. Rice and Potatoes are more digestible than wheat and corn, and also less allergenic. Also it is my understanding that white rice is more easily digested than brown rice.
Some foods have a LOT of meat, but they are not found in supermarket shelves - you need to know how to look in the ingredient list, and they are usually sold in smaller pet food/pet products stores.
The foods I feed are Very high in meat, and the protein comes from it... Very very low in carb. 50% protein (from meat), less than 10% carbs (from vegetables and fruits), and of course grain free...
As far as IAMS and Science Diet, in my opinion they are hardly premium, only on price...
You will hear a lot of opinions here...
Do your research - it seems to me that you are posting a rhetorical question...
The pet food industry and research is ever evolving... But in the end there are MANY MANY options out there.... There is dry, mixed dry and wet, wet, raw...
IMO what is important is to find something that your pet thrive in it, but also fits your schedule and your budget. The food that meets all these requirements, that is the best food, IMO.

IMHO filler = Indigestible thus the only thing I call a complete filler is cellulose ... as by definition cellulose is a COMPLETELY indigestible fiber...

Rice and oatmeal are two grains I prefer to white potato and pea when that is the option do to digestibility and a few other things....

No not an animal nutritionist just one who has been doing lots of research for many many years...

As for Premium it is merely a label

... It has little meaning , my motto is read the back of all bags not the front

Rice is a grain and NO a food having it should not call itself grain free as that is false advertising...

terryseal · Jan 11, 2010

Originally Posted by AddieBee

In order to get dry kibble to "hang together" the pet food companies need some kind of binding agent... whether it is wheat, corn, rice, potatoes, etc.

Yeah... I think for the extrusion process to work (to make dry cat food), there needs to be some kind of starch binding agent.

See "Dry Food" section in the Wikipedia page for cat food:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_food#Dry_food

...food extrusion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extrusion#Food

...and page for "starch gelatinization":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starch_gelatinization

-Terry

furryfriends50 · Jan 11, 2010

Cats have no need for anything other than other animal flesh. As obligate carnivores they are designed to eat prey and have not changed.

They are also designed to get all the water they need from their food - something dry food does the total opposite of. That is why dry food in itself is unhealthy for a cat - it dehydrates them.

whammytap · Jan 13, 2010

Originally Posted by SweetPea24

It's a question of bioavailability - can a cat derive any nutrients from plants (including fruits and veggies)? As an obligate carnivore, a cat needs meat to meets all its nutritional needs. Yes, plant products provide protein but not a complete protein so you'd have to mix a plant protein with a grain protein.

Wow, what detailed answers! Especially this one--bioavailability. This is probably a question with an unknown answer, but is a plant protein as bio-available to a cat as an animal protein? I read about people nutrition all the time (big fan of Michael Pollan) and how nutrition in some forms, and in some combinations, is more readily absorbed than others.

I've been doing some reading over in the raw feeding forum, and I'd like to start supplementing Rufus's diet with raw meaty bones as soon as I've discussed it with our vet. I've read the same things about kibble and starch--and have read elsewhere that since kibble is crumbly, it doesn't even clean a cat's teeth as it's purported to!

Sorry if my post is redundant--I looked back over several pages and hadn't found anything that looked like it dealt with grains, other than allergies of individual cats. Rufus has no known allergies but I'd hate to give him anything but the best--I am hoping his golden years are more comfortable than those of my last cat, who ate cheap food all his life and developed all sorts of health problems late in life.

jordan s. · Jan 16, 2010

Originally Posted by whammytap

So here's what I'm wondering: 'Store-brand' cat foods like Purina, Meow Mix, etc. generally contain corn or wheat fillers. 'Premium-brand' cat foods like Wellness, Castor and Pollux, etc. contain brown rice and potato fillers. Even some 'premium' brands such as IAMS or Science Diet have corn as the first ingredient.

Cats have not evolved to eat corn, wheat, rice, OR potatoes. What makes the latter two so much better than the former two? And why fruits and vegetables? What are commercial cat foods lacking in meat (a cat's natural diet) that needs to be made up for in plant food? I understand that cats in nature occasionally chew grass, but come on.

Also, rice is a grain. Why do cat foods that advertise themselves as 'grain-free' still have rice in them?

I'm not trying to start a riot here (as I apparently did with my last post on this same subject) but is there a feline nutritionist in the house?

and thats why i ushually avoid grain period. Sometimes I feed canned with one or two grains, but with dry I don't feed it if it has any grain. And I supplement with raw meat.

Grain fillers in cat food

whammytap

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chris10

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carolina

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sweetpea24

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addiebee

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sharky

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terryseal

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furryfriends50

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whammytap

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jordan s.

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