Inappropriate peeing - Vet says Idiopathic Cystitis, and not UTI. ??

the_food_lady

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Hi everyone,

My new cat Bitsy (adopted Dec 12 from Humane Society, she is about 1 yr old, spayed, strictly indoors) was checked 4 days after I got her, for a UTI, as I feared she might have been peeing "too many times" in a 24 hr period (5 golf-ball sized pee clumps in litterbox every 24 hrs; eating a diet of a good amount of canned food twice daily). Urinalysis to apparently showed no signs of UTI. Vet didn't think her peeing frequency was unusual but did the urinalysis just to pacify me :-)

Well this past week, she peed on my freshly washed rubber-backed longish shag-type bath mat. I did some reading and found that cats are often attracted to pee on rubber-backed mats, something in the rubber. So I removed that particular mat though I still have 3 others in my bathrooms that she hasn't peed on?

Then.....Friday morning she peed on a pile of clean (but unfolded) laundry that I hadn't gotten around to folding (oops! LOL). I've read, too, that some cats have a thing for peeing in laundry piles.

I took her to the Vet yesterday afternoon for another urinalysis but her bladder was too empty so took her back this morning and they did a cystocentesis and got a sample.

Now this is what confuses me........

When they do a urinalysis, they start off by "dipping" the urine with one of those reagent strips, followed by doing an in-house microscopic exam of the urine. Well when they dipped the urine it showed "3+ to 4+" white blood cells. They then did the microscopic (in-house) and it only showed "1+" WBCs. No blood present, pH between 6-7, no sediment, no crystals, etc.

The Vet (not my usual one; this one covers for mine and I find him to be rather daft) states a UTI is ruled out (even though some WBCs present; he can't really explain why the strip showed so many WBCs yet microscopic analysis didn't, but of course we go by the latter as it's more accurate - though to me, it's only as accurate as the person who's doing the manual count from based no the microscope slide...anyway...). He says her issue is either Idiopathic Cystitis...............or just behavioral.

He suggested for the I.C., if that's what it is, we proceed with a week of Metacam (I don't think so), starting her on Glucosamine and change diet to Hill's C/D (I hate Hill's).

Or.....for the possiblity that it's behavioral, I can try a Feliway room diffuser (one will be in stock on Mon or Tues for me).

I do have 4 other cats but they have taken to Bitsy very wuickly and vice versa.

I have a whopping 8 litterboxes, which includes the original new box that I had for Bitsy when I first got her and had her secluded in her own room for a few days. I keep the boxes clean and very regularly scooped. 2 boxes are hooded, in the event that she likes that too LOL. She doesn't seem to be the least bit intimidated when using the litterboxes (they're all in an area of my basement), she even uses them while I'm down there rattling around scooping them.

After I left the Vet, I came to the conclusion that due to the whole issue of the white blood cells, why not just do a culture and sensitivity and be 100% sure there's no bacteria there, just for my peace of mind...........so I called back there and asked if they still had the urine (it was probably 45 minutes after they'd done the cysto), they did, so they agreed to send off for C&S.

My gut says that these 2 episodes really were behavioral......the first one being simply due to the whole rubber backing thing (the rubber backing of the mat is rather smelly when it comes out of the dryer, which might have attracted her and that might explain why she'd never peed on these 4 mats prior or the remaining 3 mats just like it).

The Feliway Diffuser is $67 and I will give it a try though not sure if 1 is enough? I have a 1500 s/f 2 story home ...plus basement......I really can't afford to buy one for each level so would put it in the main level?

I am not aware of her peeing anywhere else. I have been sniffing every floor surface I can....paranoid that if she began to do this on a regular basis, my other 4 cats might start peeing there too, OMG that would horrible; most of my house is carpet.

Thoughts?

Many thanks
Lisa
 

otto

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get the feliway diffuser through entirleypets.com or amazon.com.. much cheaper (about $22)and very quick (I use entirelypets.com it was here in two days)

You probably should get three diffusers. You can get three on line for the price of one at the vet, they do a high mark up on stuff like that.

I was going to suggest you have a culture done, but then read further and see you already thought of it.

You'll need an enzyme cleaner and a black light to find all the pee spots. even if you can't smell it the cats will be able to. The black light will show any spots, and it has to be an enzyme cleaner. Different members have their favorites, hopefully someone will tell you what to get.

Be sure to let us know what the culture results are.
 
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the_food_lady

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Hi Otto,

Thanks a lot for your response!

Where would I get a black light? Would a pet supply place like Petsmart sell them? Expensive? I asked the Vet/staff about it, they were clueless about it (go figure).

I do feel confident, though, that if she was peeing elsewhere, I'd know because the other cats would be sniffing around that area, though I know one has to be 100% certain. I've been watching her like a hawk all day and she's not peed anywhere she shouldn't; I've been paranoid because I have 2 large expensive shag area rugs that if she peed on, I'd be screwed and would have to throw away (they're not rubber backed, they're real shag).

Okay, I'll see about ordering the Feliway diffusers online. One thing though..........seeing how it's winter and I'm in Canada (LOL), I wonder if there is any concern with shipping these in cold weather; if the Feliway liquid thingies that go into the diffuser (I'm assuming they're similar to Bath and Body Works Wallflowers LOL) are subjected to very cold temps in transit, could that decrease the effectiveness? though I imagine that's a risk I take regardless, even if purchased locally, as they were obviously shipped from somewhere.

When she peed in the clean laundry pile, it was on a pair of my undies; I've since tossed them but did decide I should wash the entire pile of laundry again, just to be certain. I threw everything in the wash, didn't use regular chlorine bleach (read that some cats are attracted to that scent and it might prompt them to pee on it?), but the color-safe bleach......and a bit of OxyClean powder, plus usual liquid detergent. Will of course never leave unfolded laundry on the floor again (a good lesson!). hopefully this is sufficient as I don't want to have to throw away all of these clothes!

I hope that the fact that her urine sample no doubt sat unrefrigerated for nearly an hour before they would have prepared it to be sent off for the culture will not adversely impact the results.........perhaps there will be some bacterial growth there due to the urine sitting unrefrigerated, and who knows if they contaminated it during the whole process, never thinking they had to be careful because it was only a urinalysis they were doing? ? ? A shame I had to be the one to suggest a culture, you'd have thought the Veterinary professionals would be as proactive as their customers.

To be honest, when I took her in yesterday afternoon (saw the same Vet I saw today), I got the impression that the Vet didn't think it was even necessary to do a urinalysis, and that he was already inclined to assume her inappropriate peeing was behavioral. Had I not been a stubborn, assertive owner who doesn't change her mind easily, I might have just followed along with his baseless assumption.

I kind of am starting not to trust this clinic.

They don't seem to question things like I do.

Eg:

1. When I first took her there, the day I adopted her, I took her there for a proper Vet check (wasn't sure how well the Humane society vets do this). they did her temperature with the ear thermometer; it was high, at 40.0C. My Vet just attributed it to her being "stressed." I took her back a couple of days later for a recheck (she didn't seem to be showing any symptoms of any kind of infection), they did it with the rectal thermometer and temp was normal.

Yesterday they did her temp again with the ear thermometer and it was 40.6C this time. Although they commented on it being high, it took me having to ask for it to be rechecked for them to decide to do it rectally (it was 38.7). Vet told me that the ear thermometer isn't really accurate............so why the h*ll do they use it then?

2. The day they first saw her, they did her weight; it was 3.12kg. When I took her in yesterday, they weighed her; it was 3.76kg. I commented on this, that this was a helluva lot of weight gain in a mere 3 weeks, didn't seem possible (that's nearly 1.5 lbs!). They just blew it off. Today when I took her back for the urinalysis, I asked them to weigh her again. Today they got a weight of 3.88kg. I asked if they used the same scale that they used yesterday, told me they did (I know that with any scale there can be variances). They then did it again and got 3.85kg. So do people there not know how to use a scale? I can only assume that when it was done on Dec 12 (at 3.12kg), that the scale wasn't "zeroed" properly by whomever did it and that that weight was wrong.

3. The tech who did her vitals yesterday wrote down that her heart rate was 270. That concerned me, so i commented on it to her. She told me it was okay, it was just because Bitsy was stressed. HUH? She wasn't stressed, and still that's damn high. So later during the appointment, I told the Vet, he checked it, HR was 180. sorry but I don't think for a minute that it was 270.

Unfortunately they're the best clinic in town.
 

darlili

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Petsmart carries black lights - maybe $15 as I recall (US - I'm near Chicago).

Start interviewing other vets - doesn't make a difference if this is the best vet in town if you don't feel comfortable enough to trust, and follow, their treatment plan (although urinary issues aren't cut and dried and subject to one and only one protocol, and I've got to say from your description, I'd be thinking behavioral issues might be part of the situation as well, assuming UTI is definitely ruled out - you've got some lovely triggers there, with the shag, rubber-backed rugs and the laundry left out, sad to say).

Get a good enzyme cleaner, as Otto says. For odor removal, I've had great luck with Zero Odor, which is carried by Bed Bath & Beyond - not sure if they're in Canada - if not, you can order directly from the Zero Odor web site but it's a liquid, so shipping is pricey.

If you order the Feliway over the net, can you arrange for it to be sent to your office or work location, so it's not sitting outside in the cold? That's what I do and haven't had an issue so far - even with shipments sent in the deepest winter.

IMO, don't rule out Hills or any prescription food out of hand - to a layman, the ingredients may seem 'less than internet-site review perfect'
, but my boy has been on Hills CD for struvite crystals, and, praise be, it's working beautifully. Urine cultures have come back clean and no peeing outside the box at all. Prescription foods are made, and prescribed, for a reason.

But, again, IMO, you have to be able to work with your vet - not against them - so you may be on a quest to find someone you can can be happy with. I know it can be tough, so good luck.
 

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I hope it is something that can be treated and done with - it's a lot easier.

I have one that the vet could find nothing wrong with, thus it's just considered behavioral. Whoever had her before me tossed out a spayed cat that they'd obviously spent money on - I'm guessing it was due to peeing (or her dislike of other cats).
I'm lucky that she doesn't go on carpet (not that I have much of it), the bed, furniture, etc. It's always clothing items or towels that someone has left or dropped on the floor - the dirtier the better.
All I can suggest is that in the meantime you don't trust her with anything like that.


I remember hissy mentioning in an older thread that peeing on soft items like this tends to be stress related for a lot of cats. I'm not sure if your kitty is stressed at all.
 

darlili

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I think Bitsy is fairly new in the house, with four resident cats ahead of her - I would be surprised if she wasn't at least a little stressed - even if it's happy stress and she's loving figuring out where her spot in the new home is.
 
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the_food_lady

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Originally Posted by darlili

I think Bitsy is fairly new in the house, with four resident cats ahead of her - I would be surprised if she wasn't at least a little stressed - even if it's happy stress and she's loving figuring out where her spot in the new home is.
Yes, I'm sure hoping that's the case. It would make sense, wouldn't it?

Even though I've had her urine sent off for a culture and will await results of same, I really don't think the 2 episodes are related to a health issue.

I've been watching her very closely for the past 2 days and she's definitely not been observed to pee anywhere she shouldn't so if this was due to a UTI or idiopathic cystitis, I'm fairly confident those 2 incidents wouldn't have been isolated; she'd continue to do so.
 

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the_food_lady;2802259 said:
Hi everyone,

My new cat Bitsy (adopted Dec 12 from Humane Society, she is about 1 yr old, spayed, strictly indoors) was checked 4 days after I got her, for a UTI, as I feared she might have been peeing "too many times" in a 24 hr period (5 golf-ball sized pee clumps in litterbox every 24 hrs; eating a diet of a good amount of canned food twice daily). Urinalysis to apparently showed no signs of UTI. Vet didn't think her peeing frequency was unusual but did the urinalysis just to pacify me :-)

Sounds like you are correct, it is a behavioral issue, she is feeling very insecure, spend more time with her...she is testing the waters.

You might also try a different litter, I use cedar chips or move the box to the area she frequents, this is all new for her and the Humane Society is a very traumatic place for anything, so give her some time and lots of patience to help her fit in.
 

sharky

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Originally Posted by otto

get the feliway diffuser through entirleypets.com or amazon.com.. much cheaper (about $22)and very quick (I use entirelypets.com it was here in two days)

You probably should get three diffusers. You can get three on line for the price of one at the vet, they do a high mark up on stuff like that.

I was going to suggest you have a culture done, but then read further and see you already thought of it.

You'll need an enzyme cleaner and a black light to find all the pee spots. even if you can't smell it the cats will be able to. The black light will show any spots, and it has to be an enzyme cleaner. Different members have their favorites, hopefully someone will tell you what to get.

Be sure to let us know what the culture results are.
Originally Posted by darlili

Petsmart carries black lights - maybe $15 as I recall (US - I'm near Chicago).

Start interviewing other vets - doesn't make a difference if this is the best vet in town if you don't feel comfortable enough to trust, and follow, their treatment plan (although urinary issues aren't cut and dried and subject to one and only one protocol, and I've got to say from your description, I'd be thinking behavioral issues might be part of the situation as well, assuming UTI is definitely ruled out - you've got some lovely triggers there, with the shag, rubber-backed rugs and the laundry left out, sad to say).

Get a good enzyme cleaner, as Otto says. For odor removal, I've had great luck with Zero Odor, which is carried by Bed Bath & Beyond - not sure if they're in Canada - if not, you can order directly from the Zero Odor web site but it's a liquid, so shipping is pricey.

If you order the Feliway over the net, can you arrange for it to be sent to your office or work location, so it's not sitting outside in the cold? That's what I do and haven't had an issue so far - even with shipments sent in the deepest winter.

IMO, don't rule out Hills or any prescription food out of hand - to a layman, the ingredients may seem 'less than internet-site review perfect'
, but my boy has been on Hills CD for struvite crystals, and, praise be, it's working beautifully. Urine cultures have come back clean and no peeing outside the box at all. Prescription foods are made, and prescribed, for a reason.

But, again, IMO, you have to be able to work with your vet - not against them - so you may be on a quest to find someone you can can be happy with. I know it can be tough, so good luck.
Originally Posted by strange_wings

I hope it is something that can be treated and done with - it's a lot easier.

I have one that the vet could find nothing wrong with, thus it's just considered behavioral. Whoever had her before me tossed out a spayed cat that they'd obviously spent money on - I'm guessing it was due to peeing (or her dislike of other cats).
I'm lucky that she doesn't go on carpet (not that I have much of it), the bed, furniture, etc. It's always clothing items or towels that someone has left or dropped on the floor - the dirtier the better.
All I can suggest is that in the meantime you don't trust her with anything like that.


I remember hissy mentioning in an older thread that peeing on soft items like this tends to be stress related for a lot of cats. I'm not sure if your kitty is stressed at all.
The above all have great points...

I get feliway very reasonable at the feed store ....

do you have rescue remedy?

Did the HS have a history on her or was she a stray?
 
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the_food_lady

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Amazon.com doesn't ship Feliway products to Canada.

Entirelypets.com charges $45 USD for shipping, too much.

I did end up ordering them from Absolutelypets.com, shipping only $12.50 USD to Canada and incredibly low prices, the lowest of everywhere !!

She was a stray so HS had no history on her, just that she was a pregnant stray that someone had found. She's extremely friendly with me and other humans; very very cuddly, affectionate, gentle, friendly.....so I am pretty sure that someone previously owned her; guess it's possible she had peeing issues and previous owner abandoned her/gave her a toss.
 

otto

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I'm glad you were able to find the feliway at a more affordable price.

Please do keep us updated on Bitsy!
 

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I'm just wondering, since she is new to the fold and all, could it be she might be trying to mark her scent?

Also have you tried giving her a safe space of her own?


Just a thought.
 

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Idiopathic cystitis really can't be diagnosed the way your vet did it. Cystitis is an inflamation in the urinary tract, and while cats with cystitis can have litter box issues, that obviously isn't the only thing that causes it. In order to properly diagnose it, you typically need an x-ray and/or ultrasound, and to add the "idiopathic" label on it typically requires a surgical biopsy. Idiopathic means "of unknown origin", and frankly if a vet uses this term without attempting any specific tests, they are using the term as a cop-out.

Hissy did state that cats that urinate on soft surfaces are typically showing signs of stress, while those that urinate on hard surfaces typically have a medical problem. I have a cat with idiopathic cystitis (diagnosed thru an actual biopsy of his bladder) and when he has a flare up, he does chose hard surfaces most of the time (like cold ceramic floors). So while this may not be 100% true, there is a tendency to seek hard surfaces when physically ill.

If it turns out that you need a prescription food, there are other urinary health foods out there. Mine will not touch the wet C/D, but love the Purina UR formula and tolerate the Royal Canin duck and rabbit flavors. My boy with IC does develop crystals and blocks if I try to put him on regular food, so it does help.
 

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I just wanted to remind you not to put the feliway near her litter boxes, else the cats might stop using them!

I would start searching for another vet. Even if yours is good, if you dont' feel comfortable with them or feel like they're not pursuing this as much as they should, then it might be time for a change. I might ask for recommendations from local rescue groups. You could go visit their clinics to see how things are run, check out the "vibe" of the place. You might also talk to a couple with her current history and tests and see if they agree with your current vet or if they have other ideas.

Good luck!
 

big mondowski

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One of my cats has cystitis and when he has a flare-up, he usually "leaks" wherever he may be lying. Otherwise, he never "thinks outside the box" as it were. Don't dismiss the Hills prescription food, either, it's always helped when he has a flare-up.

Two of my other cats are more "creative" types and so occasionally see the litter box as more of a suggestion than mandatory. Soft items (pillows, laundry, the kitchen rug) are the preferred targets when they are in that sort of mood. Feliway has helped with the behavior, and I'll second both enzyme treatments and Zero Odor, which is amazingly effective.

My youngest cat has never had an out-of-box experience, even as sick as he currently is. I consider this incredibly fortunate!

Either way, good luck!
 
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