*RANT* Why is having cats such an ISSUE?

Originally Posted by strange_wings

I have a suggestion you definitely should try if you can get a home with a decent enough yard. Cat proof fencing - it'll work for your dog, too. If they can go out whenever they wish, safely, and are able to tear up and pee on things till their hearts are content outside you may see a lot less of it inside.

This is the big advantage that you wouldn't have in an apartment.

The only downside is that you'll have to keep up on monthly flea treatments - preferably one with a combo dewormer in it.

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Definitely. We had talked about building an outdoor enclosure for them but I don't think the yard that comes with the house we are looking at is going to be big enough for that, so we may just have to cat-proof the entire yard.

And for sure about the flea treatments. I'm horribly allergic, and so was my mom, so my kids most likely will be too. I can live with it, but when my human babies are involved I will take every measure possible to prevent an infestation.

I got really lucky with my cat... My boyfriend got me Snuffles as a present a few months ago, the land lord thought it was cute and let us have her for free Also, my friends JUST got a cat, but their land lord makes them pay an extra $50 a month to have him.

I hope you find a cat-loving place soon!

Originally Posted by missymotus

I don't think it's ever a good idea to hide pets, know of a few people who've been evicted for that.

Unfortunately when you don't own the home you do need to play by someone else's rules.

I don't know if they exist in the US but here there are a few pet friendly rental websites.



I believe some sates in the US have made declawing illegal.

Declawing is illegal here, along with ear cropping and tail docking of dogs.

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Missymotus, Thank you for sharing that, it is uplifting! By chance do you know which states?


Mira's_mommy on top of the monthly pet fee, I will have to get the carpet professionally cleaned myself when I move out.

My husband is currently going to school with a very high placement rate...only problem is that the placement may or may not be local. Of course, we just put down roots 3.5 years ago and bought a townhome and the market has since tanked. So it's quite possible that we're going to be in a situation like this with 5 cats in the near future. I hope not, but it's possible.

Anyway, on one hand I can understand where landlords of rental properties are coming from.

Getting *that smell* out of the house/apartment when someone leaves can be difficult, and time consuming which is time they lose because they can't rent it while it smells like a litterbox. And that's assuming that the cats went IN the litterbox religiously, the owners just weren't good at cleaning it.

If there was a chronic sprayer in the bunch, it could be more damage than meets the eye. I know there was a member here who knows ALL the tricks for getting urine and spray out of carpet, and cleaned up after her sprayer every time. But when they took a black light to the room where kitty sprayed, it was everywhere and that's why the smell was apparent to those who weren't used to it. I think they were laying new flooring and they wanted a clean slate to start from, but in order to get a clean slate they had to replace the drywall and the floorboards because the spray had permeated them. Literally soaked in to the point that no amount of cleaning the surface would get it out. NASTY! This is someone who did know and cared enough to clean up properly...imagine someone with an un-neutered tom who didn't and let it go for the landlord to find after they moved out. There's no way a normal deposit would cover that!

On the other hand...most of us cat owners aren't like that. Hey, I have a sensitive nose and there is no way I can let the litterboxes go more than a day without scooping at least! My house doesn't have *that smell* even with 5 cats. But unfortunately if I do have to move from a house that I own to a rental, there is no way for that landlord to know that. I'm sure they won't take my word on it. It's like everything else - a few bad apples spoils the whole basket!

I have moved three times in the last 5 years with 3 cats. I have come across landlords who won't even let me see the apartment when they know I have three cats. But I rather not rent from someone who doesn't want my cats around. I always let them know before I even see a place that I have three.

My first place was with a rental company. The charged a $100 cat lease and because they got to know me and I've had them in my apartment for fire inspections, etc. they knew my cat was clean and I was clean and let me get two more without anymore deposit money.

Second place: It was a small studio so i wasn't sure if the woman was going to be okay with three cats. But she spoke with me and seemed to be sizing me up....she said yes as long as they were indoor only. No extra security needed.

My most recent place the guy just wanted to make sure they used the litter box appropriately. He said he didn't want to deal with "that smell" if he needed to rent it out again. I assured him they were fine and he took my word for it. But has a clause in the lease if they or I for that matter are destructive of the property we must vacate. No extra security needed here either.

There are definately people who are the no-never types but there are those who are willing to give people a shot. I think it helps if people who have pets take good care of them and leave the property in great condition when they leave. That way the landlord will be more apt to rent again to someone with animals having had good experiances.

One real estate person I dealt with helps foster cats and worked with her clients to get them to be more lenient with their pet policies. These people were no pet and were going to let me have my three cats! So it helps to have people spreading the word that you need to take it on a case by case basis. Meet the prospective tenents AND their pets. Than decide.

Its a nightmare, we are in housing association house (local authority) after we lost our home 2 years ago. We are only allowed 2 pets, that includes caged animals !!! We have 5 cats, 6 rabbits, 5 birds and 4 fish I just kept sssshhhhh about how many pets we have and luckily most of the neighbours are ok. x

Originally Posted by valanhb

If there was a chronic sprayer in the bunch, it could be more damage than meets the eye. I know there was a member here who knows ALL the tricks for getting urine and spray out of carpet, and cleaned up after her sprayer every time. But when they took a black light to the room where kitty sprayed, it was everywhere and that's why the smell was apparent to those who weren't used to it. I think they were laying new flooring and they wanted a clean slate to start from, but in order to get a clean slate they had to replace the drywall and the floorboards because the spray had permeated them. Literally soaked in to the point that no amount of cleaning the surface would get it out.

NASTY! This is someone who did know and cared enough to clean up properly...imagine someone with an un-neutered tom who didn't and let it go for the landlord to find after they moved out. There's no way a normal deposit would cover that!

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Yeah, I'm doing my best to keep the place clean of spray but I often don't catch her doing it. I am worried about that when I go. I plan to hold onto the apartment for a whole month after everything is moved out so I will have time to take a black light to the place and clean the areas I've missed (with ample time for multiple treatments if neccessary). As of now, the apartment doesn't smell but then again I've become somewhat immune to it. So I have a few honest friends who don't own (or even like) cats and I ask them to stop by for weekly "smell checks". They pick up on odors I didn't know even existed, and they can often determine the source of the smell so I can clean it. Sometimes it's nice to have non-cat people in your life.

Missy has been getting better about the spraying though. I've started disciplining her when I do catch her. Nothing too harsh, just a spank and her nose rubbed in it. I know you're not supposed to do that with cats, but contrary to popular belief, she does respond and she doesn't seem to like me any less because of it. I haven't found a spray in about a week, and it used to be many times daily. It seems to be working when nothing else I tried did so I'm going to keep on keeping on for now.

Originally Posted by Shanynne

Missymotus, Thank you for sharing that, it is uplifting! By chance do you know which states?

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I don't know, I don't live in the US. Perhaps start a new thread asking

Originally Posted by mira's_mommy

Nothing too harsh, just a spank and her nose rubbed in it.

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Your poor, poor cat That is abuse

Do what I do. Don't tell them and make sure they never find out.

It isn't an impossible task, I've succeeded in doing that for 6 years, in suburbia, without any problems with the real estate, and passing every inspection with flying colors - with 29 cats.

You just need to have a suitable, private, cat proofed yard, and be able to keep the place clean and move the cats out with notice.

And guess what else? My dad just informed me that the town I live in just passed an ordinance that limits the number of cats you can own in city limits. The legal number is 3. I have 8. There is also a limit on dogs set at 2. Wow.

Originally Posted by mira's_mommy

And guess what else? My dad just informed me that the town I live in just passed an ordinance that limits the number of cats you can own in city limits. The legal number is 3. I have 8. There is also a limit on dogs set at 2. Wow.

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Pet limits in cities/towns are pretty common these days. You can have more animals than I can. We have a limit of 4 total dogs + cats where I live. So with 3 cats, we could have 1 more or a dog. I am not going to go to the max limit though-- we have a lot of relatives with cats, and I want at least 1 opening just in case something were to happen and a cat needed a place to go.

Good luck with your house hunting. We ended up buying a house when our lease came up last time. Finding an apartment that wasn't a dump was virtually impossible with 3 cats.

Originally Posted by mira's_mommy

And guess what else? My dad just informed me that the town I live in just passed an ordinance that limits the number of cats you can own in city limits. The legal number is 3. I have 8. There is also a limit on dogs set at 2. Wow.

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New York in general has a lot of laws regarding animals that are bad. I couldn't and wouldn't move there. As long as no one reports you, though, you should be fine with your number. People will say it's to cut down on hoarder situations but general pet keepers are more common than hoarders - it's just AR paying to get stuff passed.

If you can afford to do so, move outside of city/town limits. Less neighbors to deal with.

Originally Posted by missymotus

Originally Posted by mira's_mommy

Nothing too harsh, just a spank and her nose rubbed in it.

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Your poor, poor cat

That is abuse

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Good luck with the house.

But please do not spank her & rub her nose in urine. Would you do that to a toddler who was potty training? I hope not...

Originally Posted by KatKisses

Good luck with the house.

But please do not spank her & rub her nose in urine. Would you do that to a toddler who was potty training? I hope not...

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Of course I wouldn't do that. However if the child was fully potty trained and just thought it was fun to pee on the floor and walls, there would be consequences for doing so. And if the child continued the behavior after disciplinary action was taken, the consequences would be increasingly more severe with each offense. The first step would be scolding, then increasingly longer time-outs, then if none of that worked I WOULD resort to spanking. I know alot of people disagree with spanking children as well but I was raised by parents who spanked (often as the first action taken instead of time-outs or other forms of punishment) and I can honestly say I couldn't have turned out better as an adult. And Kipper (having lived with my strict military parents) was also strongly disciplined and he is the most well-behaved, well-rounded cat I've ever known. I have not seen any form of mild punishment be detrimental to a cat's well-being. I'm sure it happens but these are, like I said, MILD punishments. Very soft spanks, just enough to startle her if anything, and the nose in the urine so she knows why she got spanked. It works for dogs and I don't see too many people protesting that, calling it animal abuse. I've seen Kipper get much worse just for being on the table or counter at my parents' and he is still a very happy, affectionate cat. I've tried EVERYTHING else imaginable with Missy and at her age I'm not very surprised nothing else worked, she never had rules or boundaries before, as she was completely NEGLECTED. Now she has food and water, a clean litterbox, a warm place to sleep, and more toys than any cat could ever want or need. She still comes to me for affection (I would say even more so after I started disciplining her), and better yet, SHE IS RESPONDING TO IT. I still haven't found a single area that she has sprayed since the second time I spanked her (that's right, it's only been twice!). I could be like alot of cat owners and just dump her off on the side of the road because I don't care enough to resolve the issue, but I couldn't and wouldn't do that to her. She'd be worse off out there than she is here, even with these punishments that are apparently "cruel". I understand that some people will still disagree with my handling of the situation but everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I respect them. But I assure you I AM NOT ABUSING MY CAT!

All I can say is be careful where you put the litterboxes. I made the mistake of putting one in the dining room (we don't use it as a dining room) because when I got Sneakers she kept using the main level bathroom's floor as a litterbox. There was no room for a litterbox in the bathroom so I put one in the closest place, also the only place on the main level where a litterbox could go-- the dining room. Unfortunately the dining room has hardwood floors and after some litterbox misses we now need to replace the hardwood. We had planned on refinishing it because the finish is worn down in some places but the wood itself was in good shape, but now we will probably have to totally replace it instead.

Originally Posted by mira's_mommy

I have not seen any form of mild punishment be detrimental to a cat's well-being. I'm sure it happens but these are, like I said, MILD punishments. Very soft spanks, just enough to startle her if anything, and the nose in the urine so she knows why she got spanked. It works for dogs and I don't see too many people protesting that, calling it animal abuse.

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Actually it does not work for dogs, and I doubt if you could find a single dog trainer who would recommend that.
Unless you actually catch the dog/cat in the act of making the mess (or immediately after), they won't understand why they are being "punished". They do not associate the act of making the mess with you finding it later and putting their nose in it. In order from them to associate a behavior with a consequence, the consequence needs to follow within a few seconds. Even a few minutes is too long. If it comes later they will not understand that the act of making the mess is related to your getting angry at the mess being there. They will most likely associate whatever it was they were doing at them time when you "punished" them with the punishment (sitting somewhere, sleeping on the couch, playing with a toy, whatever it is they were doing when you found it.) Even if you do catch them in the act, hitting or rubbing a cat's very sensitive nose in urine is not a good idea for punishment, it is very extreme and again I don't know any current trainer or behaviorist who would ever recommend that. You could also possibly damage their nasal passages or sense of smell if the urine comes into contact with the cat's nose.

Originally Posted by Nekochan

Unless you actually catch the dog/cat in the act of making the mess (or immediately after), they won't understand why they are being "punished". They do not associate the act of making the mess with you finding it later and putting their nose in it. In order from them to associate a behavior with a consequence, the consequence needs to follow within a few seconds. Even a few minutes is too long. If it comes later they will not understand that the act of making the mess is related to your getting angry at the mess being there.

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I am aware of this, and I'm sorry I didn't specify: the two times I have punished her I did catch her in the act and stopped her mid-spray.

Ok that is different. If you catch them in the act, I would recommend startling (such as with a noise) and then re-directing to the proper place. I still would not recommend physical punishment or putting the cat's nose in it, that is way too harsh and counterproductive. Physical punishment is often connected with the giver rather than the behavior they are doing and can cause them to become afraid of your approaching them.
Also I am not sure if it's the same with cats, but I have been told that with dogs if you put their nose in their mess this can make them MORE likely to make a mess there again, because they pick out a spot to use the bathroom by scent and by putting their nose in it you are connecting the scent more strongly with the location.

Originally Posted by Nekochan

Ok that is different. If you catch them in the act, I would recommend startling (such as with a noise) and then re-directing to the proper place. I still would not recommend physical punishment or putting the cat's nose in it, that is way too harsh and counterproductive. Physical punishment is often connected with the giver rather than the behavior they are doing and can cause them to become afraid of your approaching them.
Also I am not sure if it's the same with cats, but I have been told that with dogs if you put their nose in their mess this can make them MORE likely to make a mess there again, because they pick out a spot to use the bathroom by scent and by putting their nose in it you are connecting the scent more strongly with the location.

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This I did not know. I appreciate the fact that you are level-headed enough to give me real information like this instead of just flat out calling me an abusive cat mommy. Thank you. I have not had a problem with her still so there may be no need for any further action, but thank you for bringing that info to my attention, so if she starts using those spots again I will know why and not get angry with her for not understanding. I can't think of anything else to try. I am working on getting her spayed, though the chances of that helping at her age are slim. But due to her medical problems (age, weight, etc.) it's proving difficult to even do that. The only other thing I can think to do is confine her in a washable area and just leave her be but that isn't solving the issue at all, just making it easier to deal with. Not to mention she would become very lonely without interaction from the other kitties. I'm at a loss here.

On a seperate note, we looked at the house today. I like it. There are a few things that will have to be changed (the carpet upstairs is horrid, for example) but the good IMO outweighs the bad. Now if only we can get the financing. My credit is apparently perfect but I don't make enough to cover the monthly payments so no bank is going to loan that amount to only me. And my fiance makes really good money but his credit is virtually non-existent since he has the same name as his grandfather and their credit reports are all mixed up. No bank can ever find his score, ever. And dealing with the credit bureaus to get that fixed is a huge PITA. Ugh.

I had an adult female cat that sprayed & peed in the bed. She was spayed at 2+ yrs old and it stopped this behavior. Isn't Missy the older cat who is too um... "squishy" to spay? It's not 100% that spaying her would stop it, but it's worth trying.

I am sad that you feel like the only choices are to either abuse your elderly cat, dump her, or put her in solitary confinment. When my cat peed in my bed & I caught her in the act I would GENTLY pick her up and put her in the litter box. I would make her stay in it for a few seconds, and reward her for being in the box. Lots of loving on her & treats while she was in the litter box. She was peeing in the bed less and less, then I got her spayed and she stopped completly.

It takes A LOT of patience to have a cat with litter box issues. You just have to work with them, not against them.

Originally Posted by KatKisses

I had an adult female cat that sprayed & peed in the bed. She was spayed at 2+ yrs old and it stopped this behavior. Isn't Missy the older cat who is too um... "squishy" to spay? It's not 100% that spaying her would stop it, but it's worth trying.

I am sad that you feel like the only choices are to either abuse your elderly cat, dump her, or put her in solitary confinment. When my cat peed in my bed & I caught her in the act I would GENTLY pick her up and put her in the litter box. I would make her stay in it for a few seconds, and reward her for being in the box. Lots of loving on her & treats while she was in the litter box. She was peeing in the bed less and less, then I got her spayed and she stopped completly.

It takes A LOT of patience to have a cat with litter box issues. You just have to work with them, not against them.

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I have tried the "gently put her in the box and give positive reinforcement" thing. I've also cleaned the areas thoroughly. I've put foil on the areas to try and deter her; she went on the foil or found a new spot. I have a Feliway plug-in in every room. I've made a point to give her extra love and attention. I've also tried disrupting the kitty hierarchy in my house, which some TCS users speculated could be stressing her and causing the behavior. Someone suggested confining her to make the mess more manageable (since I do currently rent) but I have not tried that because as I said she would lack the interaction with other kitties, and also I simply don't have a space like that big enough to confine a cat for any extended period of time. She does have a spay appointment in April for when I get my taxes back, and I have gotten some great advice on how I could help slim her down in the meantime to reduce the risks of the surgery, and increase the chances that they will perform it at all. I won't know if spaying will help until it happens. And for the record, I've never even considered dumping her (and certainly never will), I was just making a point that there are many people who would have by now. You're right, it takes alot of patience to deal with a cat that has these issues but mine is wearing thin. If you have another idea, something I haven't already tried, then by all means I'd be glad to hear it. But please do not twist my words around like you did in your previous post, or simply accuse me of abusing my cat without offering an ounce of help or advice or even inquiring as to what I have tried already that hasn't worked and makes me feel that discipline is my only option. Take a tip from your own signature: try to understand my situation before you pass judgement. I'm not a horrible person, I am just frustrated and have run out of options.