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Denosyl for the liver

post #1 of 17
1/9/10 at 4:30am
Thread Starter 
The inevitable has come, Tolly's liver values have shot up off the charts.

Tolly has been taking phenobarbital for seizures for 8 years. Phenobarbitol is processed through the liver and eventually causes damage. Fortunately the liver is a regenerative organ and steps can be taken.

He gets annual blood work which has always been fine until this year there was a dramatic change.

My vet has started him on Denosyl right away.

I've also had to cut his phenobarbital back by 3.25 mg. This is the part that scares me the most. If the seizures come back at the lower dose I will choose quality of life over quantity and put him right back on the old dose, but that's just borrowing trouble. Crossing paws that he can maintain seizure free at the lower dose.

I have many questions for her which I will be asking at his next blood work appointment in two weeks, as we didn't get to talk much on the phone.

For one thing I want to know why she chooses Denosyl (Sam-e only) over Denamarin (Sam-e and milk thistle aka marin).

I'd like to hear from others who have or had cats going through something similar to what we are facing here now.
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post #2 of 17
1/9/10 at 9:01am
My diabetic cat Goofy was on it just 1 year ago today! I checked the old box.

He did not have seizures though, but it was a pain to give him because of the empty stomach deal. I ended up getting up at 3 am to dose him and feed at 5 am. He suffered no side effects.

Hope your kitty does well on the lower dose of pheno.
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post #3 of 17
1/9/10 at 10:48am
I have a few with liver issues( they are very yound and the issues mild) they take oriental medicine... my two older ones both one did milk thisle with fair results the other could not handle milk thisle at all... Drop me a pm if you want further info...
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post #4 of 17
1/9/10 at 11:02am
If for some reason they are allergic to milk thistle it will irritate the liver and the liver values will stay elevated. I would guess they want to get the numbers under control with the least complication possible. Just my 2cents.
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post #5 of 17
1/9/10 at 5:29pm
I'm certainly no expert in this area and can only offer my opinion. When my Maverick's liver enzymes shot up, I put him on the Denamarin per someone's advice, and after doing research on it. Maverick's liver enzymes went down to 60-something after being on the Denamarin for only a month or so. I don't know if it'll help your kitty at all, but I do know it helped my Maverick.

I hope your kitty gets better.
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post #6 of 17
1/9/10 at 5:48pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by farleyv View Post
My diabetic cat Goofy was on it just 1 year ago today! I checked the old box.

He did not have seizures though, but it was a pain to give him because of the empty stomach deal. I ended up getting up at 3 am to dose him and feed at 5 am. He suffered no side effects.

Hope your kitty does well on the lower dose of pheno.
I know about that middle of the night stuff! I had to get up at 3 a.m. every night for Ootay (rb 5/09) because she could not go too long without food. So I would get up at 3:00 and bring her a little snack. usually she was in bed with me and wouldn't even get up, I would jsut put the dish under her chin and she would nibble. The other cats never ever tried to horn in or ask for food themselves, they knew it was just for her.

Then I would get up again at 6 a.m. to give her cisapride and another snack. This because she had to have the cisapride and food at least an hour (better 2 hours) before having her mineral oil.

Thanks for your reply.
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post #7 of 17
1/9/10 at 5:58pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
I have a few with liver issues( they are very yound and the issues mild) they take oriental medicine... my two older ones both one did milk thisle with fair results the other could not handle milk thisle at all... Drop me a pm if you want further info...

In what way? I mean, what did he do that you knew the milk thistle was not working for him?


Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomerKitty View Post
If for some reason they are allergic to milk thistle it will irritate the liver and the liver values will stay elevated. I would guess they want to get the numbers under control with the least complication possible. Just my 2cents.
I think you may have the answer. When I discussed all this with my vet on Tuesday (before we even knew his values had gone so high, Tuesday was his check up and the day he had the blood work) I had my list and was asking about these things. I think my vet may have said something like that when I asked why she would use denosyl when the time came rather than denamarin.

At the time though, the conversation was still under the assumption that it wasn't going to be an issue for some time. Tolly was suffering from constipation and inappetence due to hairball trouble so I got side tracked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KittKatt View Post
I'm certainly no expert in this area and can only offer my opinion. When my Maverick's liver enzymes shot up, I put him on the Denamarin per someone's advice, and after doing research on it. Maverick's liver enzymes went down to 60-something after being on the Denamarin for only a month or so. I don't know if it'll help your kitty at all, but I do know it helped my Maverick.

I hope your kitty gets better.
Thank you for sharing your experience with Maverick and the denamarin. I was actually hoping you would reply. How long was Maverick on the denamarin? In the end, it was his liver that did finally give up the fight? What was the cause of his liver failure? I know you just lost him, so if it is too hard to talk about I understand.

I hope to have Tolly around for a good long time still. But if the seizures cannot be controlled with the reduced dose of phenobarbital, it will become quality of life over quantity, no contest.

I do plan to ask my vet about potassium bromide, as an alternative to the phenobarbital.

My thanks to everyone for replying here.
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post #8 of 17
1/9/10 at 8:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by otto View Post
Thank you for sharing your experience with Maverick and the denamarin. I was actually hoping you would reply. How long was Maverick on the denamarin? In the end, it was his liver that did finally give up the fight? What was the cause of his liver failure? I know you just lost him, so if it is too hard to talk about I understand.
Yes, it is painful, but if I can help anyone else in any way, I'm happy to oblige.

Maverick was on the Denamarin for about 8 months, till it became too difficult for him to take the tablets (due to the crud that kept building up in his throat from the URI issues). He health wasn't failing solely due to his liver issues: it was a combination of a recurring URI, age, and a weakening immune system - and his body was shutting down because he pretty much quit eating. He may have held on longer if I would have been able to get the Denamarin down him - I don't know. I do know that after he started taking the Denamarin he started feeling better again, and was more like his usual self - that is, till he started having the recurring URI, which eventually could no longer be controlled by the meds he was getting. I'm sure his liver issues played a part in his failing health, but it wasn't the entire reason he eventually succumbed.
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post #9 of 17
1/9/10 at 9:00pm
Gigi could not take milk thistle it made her sick ...
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post #10 of 17
1/11/10 at 5:51am
Thread Starter 
My thanks to you both for sharing your experiences here. Tolly so far is not being bothered by the denosyl.

My vet kept warning me about the size of the pills and I kept telling her not to worry, there isn't a cat born that I can't pill.

As it turns out the pills aren't all that big, and they go down fine. However I read in the information sheet that comes with it that I should be chasing the pill with water, to make sure it doesn't stick in his esophagus. Did you guys dry-pill your cats, and then chase it with water?

He doesn't even notice when I slip the pill down he's so used to being pilled, but he does not like the water chaser. He accepts it, but I can tell he is annoyed by it <ggg>
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post #11 of 17
1/11/10 at 9:16am
I food pilled ... lol ... "cookie" before then pill in butter or cheese then another piece of food... I use alot of chinese medicine and thus many tea pills which evidentaly are very very bitter to kitty
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post #12 of 17
1/11/10 at 9:42am
Thread Starter 
Well, the package insert does say a tiny amount of food is okay, if the cat won't take it without, but it is supposed to be given on an empty stomach, preferably after fast (first thing in the morning)

Tolly takes pills with no trouble, but I am worried about it not sliding all the way down, ever since I read the info sheet <g>.

I wonder if a little mayo would interfere with the absorption of the denosyl. He loves that and it certainly would be nicer for him than the water chaser.
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post #13 of 17
1/11/10 at 9:52am
it is pure fat so let me check..lol.. going to my vet with a friend today
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post #14 of 17
1/11/10 at 11:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by otto View Post
My thanks to you both for sharing your experiences here. Tolly so far is not being bothered by the denosyl.

My vet kept warning me about the size of the pills and I kept telling her not to worry, there isn't a cat born that I can't pill.

As it turns out the pills aren't all that big, and they go down fine. However I read in the information sheet that comes with it that I should be chasing the pill with water, to make sure it doesn't stick in his esophagus. Did you guys dry-pill your cats, and then chase it with water?

He doesn't even notice when I slip the pill down he's so used to being pilled, but he does not like the water chaser. He accepts it, but I can tell he is annoyed by it <ggg>
When I had my foster Tiger (R.I.P.), she had bad liver values. I tried Denosyl on her, but it made her throw up. She only threw up when I gave her a Denosyl, so I stopped giving it to her.

The vet told me they were big, but I've given much bigger pills.
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post #15 of 17
1/11/10 at 4:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by otto View Post

As it turns out the pills aren't all that big, and they go down fine. However I read in the information sheet that comes with it that I should be chasing the pill with water, to make sure it doesn't stick in his esophagus. Did you guys dry-pill your cats, and then chase it with water?
I always give all my cats water after giving them a pill. It goes down much easier, and there could be damage done if it gets stuck in the throat.
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post #16 of 17
1/11/10 at 6:52pm
Vet would have to look up the med( ie I should have written it down) .... she did say most pills are okay in a fat
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post #17 of 17
1/11/10 at 7:14pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
Vet would have to look up the med( ie I should have written it down) .... she did say most pills are okay in a fat
Thank you. I will check with my vet too, of course. In the mean time I will just use the water chaser, since I know that is okay. Tolly really doesn't mind. He's taken pills and liquid medicine every day for most of his life.
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