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very confused as to the difference between himalayans and persians!!!!!

post #1 of 17
1/7/10 at 7:04pm
Thread Starter 
hello my name is Katrina i just started researching persians and himalayans in hopes to one day have one myself. i`m just a little confused about the difference. are they 2 seperate breeds. if u breed 2 persians can u get a himalayans or is it just a persian with himalayan markings? can there be persians with himalayan markings? can someone clear this up for me. i went to yahoo answers and all i got was stuff like " it doesn`t matter you should be getting cats from a shelter anyway" super annoying!
thanks in advance!!!
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post #2 of 17
1/7/10 at 7:09pm
People can be rude.
When I got my first sphynx I was blasted for not going to a shelter by people in a weight lost group even though I have saved so many ferals and have cats no one wpuld have wanted.
Here is some info for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Cat
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post #3 of 17
1/7/10 at 7:22pm
I probably answered your question on Yahoo answers (I go by Ocimom on there).

But to answer it here for you. Persians and Himalayans are really one breed (some associations still classify them as 2 breeds, but the standards are exactly the same except for markings/color).

Himalayans are pointed Persians. The pointed gene is recessive (the cats either have to carry it or be pointed).

So:

Two non-pointed Persians can produce a pointed one IF both are carrying the pointed gene. Or you can breed a non-pointed (that carries pointed) to a pointed and get pointed kittens.

The only cats that should be bred on purpose are those that are top show quality to start.
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post #4 of 17
1/7/10 at 7:36pm
Thread Starter 
thanks so much for replying. thats funny u replied to my question on yahoo answers too i`m not planning on getting one anytime soon maybe in a year or too when i know more about them. i`d like to get a show quality pair. to start a tiny cattery one day. growing up my family bred show quality australian shepherds. so i got a little taste of the dog show atmosphere.thank you for the information. it helped alot!

Katrina
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post #5 of 17
1/7/10 at 8:30pm
Over here they are all called Persians.

Would be best if you get yourself a show neuter first, before getting a breeding pair. Most breeders won't sell breeding cats to just anyone, if you get to know the breed through a neuter you can meet other breeders, find a mentor etc.
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post #6 of 17
1/7/10 at 8:34pm
I agree yiu need to start with alters.
That is what I am doing.
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post #7 of 17
1/7/10 at 11:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by missymotus View Post
Over here they are all called Persians.

Would be best if you get yourself a show neuter first, before getting a breeding pair. Most breeders won't sell breeding cats to just anyone, if you get to know the breed through a neuter you can meet other breeders, find a mentor etc.
In Sweden too they are known just to be Pointed Persians.

I saw once a little older british book with cats breeds in. I got the impression the "breeds" were often really just colours.

Of course, back in these days in the fifties there werent so many real breeds, mostly Persians (with their different colours) and Siameses.


I agree a good altered may be your intro ticket into the show and breeding world. Make sure the cat is a cat-sociale cat so it will function well with your cattery when it comes. And preferably also be a welcome aunt or uncle to the kittens. One interesting bi-variation is you get a retired queen or stud (or simply a young male who did sired a couple of litters and got neutered, as is the most usual). And in this way you do get your mentor and contact: the seller who herself is into this, around and active in the milieu.

Ah, and of course dont forget to visit all the exhibitions you can and talk with the exhibitors, so you are seen around - and learn more. Talk with all friendly cat people/breeds, not just only the persians.

Good luck!
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post #8 of 17
1/8/10 at 5:21am
Yes you should start as a show alter - most reputable breeders will not hand over breeding cats to novice cat show people. You have to "earn" that right to breed quality cats
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post #9 of 17
1/9/10 at 5:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by StefanZ View Post
In Sweden too they are known just to be Pointed Persians.

I saw once a little older british book with cats breeds in. I got the impression the "breeds" were often really just colours.

Of course, back in these days in the fifties there werent so many real breeds, mostly Persians (with their different colours) and Siameses.


I agree a good altered may be your intro ticket into the show and breeding world. Make sure the cat is a cat-sociale cat so it will function well with your cattery when it comes. And preferably also be a welcome aunt or uncle to the kittens. One interesting bi-variation is you get a retired queen or stud (or simply a young male who did sired a couple of litters and got neutered, as is the most usual). And in this way you do get your mentor and contact: the seller who herself is into this, around and active in the milieu.

Ah, and of course dont forget to visit all the exhibitions you can and talk with the exhibitors, so you are seen around - and learn more. Talk with all friendly cat people/breeds, not just only the persians.

Good luck!
How do you know that a cat will be cat-sociable? Serious question. With I'm sure not an easy answer!!! It seems so risky....if a cat doesn't like other cats you might as well hang it up, eh? Are there any early indications in a kitten and within a litter? Just curious. I tried my gorgeous HHP as I'm sure you all remember, a few months ago and though she was/is VERY promising, she played "angry kitty" (see youtube, LOL) and that was it. BTW, I would LIKE TO TRY AGAIN just a little afraid to As much as I would LOVE to add another kitty and was looking at Turks...I'm afraid of ruining a wonderful thing with Gi...she is the BEST cat I EVER had...I'm so afraid of rocking the boat, unbalancing things, ruining her life <g>, etc..... getting attached to a new cat and having to send it back (b/c Gigi comes first). A part of me wants to SO bad b/c I am a cat enthusiast and b/c I show dogs and could REALLY get into that with cats But the other part says, no, just stick with the ONE you have and be happy. So it is either show Gigi or not, and if not I can still take her many places and walk her on leash, etc... therapy cat and all that....she's great But still wondering if you can predict show personality or not. To keep this on topic....my parents have a beautiful Tortie-point Himalayan!!!!
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post #10 of 17
1/9/10 at 5:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allmycats View Post
But still wondering if you can predict show personality or not.
Not really, some start out really well as kittens but hate showing once adults.

Some say the most outgoing kitten will make the best show cat, both my most outgoing cannot be shown. My shyest girl is the best show cat of my bunch (a shy Oci is not like a shy 'normal' cat )

Entires once the hormones kick in can be hard to show.
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post #11 of 17
1/9/10 at 5:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by missymotus View Post
Not really, some start out really well as kittens but hate showing once adults.

Some say the most outgoing kitten will make the best show cat, both my most outgoing cannot be shown. My shyest girl is the best show cat of my bunch (a shy Oci is not like a shy 'normal' cat )

Entires once the hormones kick in can be hard to show.
Gigi, I was told, was the most outgoing in her litter (and the favorite with the folks who raised her in her foster home)! Actually it was she and her brother left the day I applied for her, but I had seen a couple of her siblings (2 calicos, a red and another white and red plus the black and white brother) a few days before when they were first brought in and I liked them all then.... so I wound up getting the favorite b/c others honed in on the calicos . In hindsight, I wish I had taken Guy too!!!! aww!!! Anyway, I think maybe her very outgoing personality makes her bossy too <g> and thus has a temper LOL. Oh well. I am crrrrazy about her!!!!!!
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post #12 of 17
1/10/10 at 4:54am
There really is no way of knowing in the show ring. You can tell the "shy" ones right away and being "outgoing" doesn't really indicate a good show cat either.

I do find the boys tend to enjoy showing more then the girls do, from my experience with HHP's and purebreds. Our HHP was the first out of the box and demanding to have attention paid to her - but in the show hall, she's "Miss Princess" and thinks she should be the ONLY cat in the class....needless to say her show career was very short lived (one show).

The only thing you can do is expose them to different people and places and gage their reaction. Then try them in a few shows and see what happens.
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post #13 of 17
1/12/10 at 2:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allmycats View Post
How do you know that a cat will be cat-sociable?
With kittens you cant know for sure. Right.

But here we are talking about an adult cat which you prob buy from a breeder, or in any case, from someone into the pure-bred circles.
. Prob an ex queen or something.


(in other cases with no-breed cat involved, buying from feks a shelter or a fosterer, you talk of course with the staff at the shelter).

So here you know the result in advance....



But you are perhaps thinking about buying a neutered kitten from a breeder.
In USA and some other countries pets leaving a breeder are usually already neutered, right?

The drawback here it will be purebreed, but probably NOT of show-quality. Promising kittens are kept unneutered if possible.
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post #14 of 17
1/12/10 at 3:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by StefanZ View Post




The drawback here it will be purebreed, but probably NOT of show-quality. Promising kittens are kept unneutered if possible.
Not true. I've got 11 kittens here - and I'd say 9 of them are promising and are definitely show quality! At least that number will be leaving here fixed or on a desexing contract It's just not viable for all show quality kittens to be kept for breeding
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post #15 of 17
1/12/10 at 5:18am
When I was breeding my rexes (because I studied pedigrees, etc.) most all my kittens were showable - but the majority ended up in pet homes. Most breeders are thrilled when they have a person that contacts them and asks for a show quality cat to show. When I contacted Anne (Jack's breeder) she was thrilled I wanted a show alter and she had me wait for that "great" cat to be born. So far he's not disappointed her or me!
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post #16 of 17
1/12/10 at 2:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by StefanZ View Post
With kittens you cant know for sure. Right.

But here we are talking about an adult cat which you prob buy from a breeder, or in any case, from someone into the pure-bred circles.
. Prob an ex queen or something.


(in other cases with no-breed cat involved, buying from feks a shelter or a fosterer, you talk of course with the staff at the shelter).

So here you know the result in advance....



But you are perhaps thinking about buying a neutered kitten from a breeder.
In USA and some other countries pets leaving a breeder are usually already neutered, right?

The drawback here it will be purebreed, but probably NOT of show-quality. Promising kittens are kept unneutered if possible.
Thank you, I see what you mean StefanZ. If I were to get a purebred cat (which I currently have no plans to) I would definitely go the s/n older kitten route, even if just to show HHP. I guess I have enough with showing/breeding dogs that I don't mind just having fun with the cats I definitely have an interest in the cat fancy, but vicariously for now, at this time in my life! I hope I can maybe show Gigi again some time this year. Worth a try I made cage curtains and everything <g> And I love to show my gorgeous girl off!!!!!
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post #17 of 17
1/12/10 at 2:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WellingtonCats View Post
Not true. I've got 11 kittens here - and I'd say 9 of them are promising and are definitely show quality! At least that number will be leaving here fixed or on a desexing contract It's just not viable for all show quality kittens to be kept for breeding
True! Good point. The same is true in dogs. Many show quality dogs go to great pet homes and are altered.
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