Security - Full Body Scans

Well, first off, you can refuse the scan and submit yourself to a hand search. It is not everybody who goes through the scan. Some airports also have different machines that blow puffs of air and analyzes that for explosive - that doesn't put you through any radiation.

Second, even if you don't refuse it, IMO it is a way better alternative than to getting blown off mid-air

Why rebel? If you rebel, you have no rights to complain when an attack happens IMO, including if you are in anyway affected by it.

Oh, I think the government HAS that in mind. Things are not as easy as you might wish! Think about the logistics - millions of people travel everyday!! How do you stop them from bringing explosives into the planes? That guy had 8 grams of explosives EIGHT. That is IT! EIGHT!
So.... It is a HUMONGOUS task to achieve, and no easy solution... It is easy however, IMO, to judge...

But, as a frequent traveler myself, I know that this hype will calm, just like it did after September 11. Things will fall into place, and a balance will be found. Security measures will improve, not necessarily with scans, we don't know exactly how, but it will improve...

Sadly the terrorists will get around it too, and then we will improve, and they will get around, and we will improve... and so on.., so forth......

Luckily this time nobody died on this learning exercise But unfortunately it is not game over.... this will last for a long time.... living and learning.... As long as we are ahead of them, we are fine....

But, I think we citizens need to help to fight them, help our government in this fight, instead of fighting the government. Just my two cents.

You have more confidence in the government than I do.

IMO we have dropped the ball when it comes to national security. We will never learn as long as political correctness dominates our efforts.

It will not change. Sadly, I think even another 9/11 will not bring the changes we need.

Personally, I think there is little we can do, if terrorists want to blow up a plane, they will find a way to do it. Even before 9/11 bags were searched, sniffer dogs were used in airports etc. but yet it still happened, terrorists can have friends in the right places to be waived through etc

As far as radiation, its probably not as bad as the amount you absorb on a plane so for those flying, I dont see why they would say no to the scan - even pregnant women and children, for whom its not safe to get radiation, are choosing to fly which will expose them to radiation

Profiling WORKS!

Most people don't realize that the higher you go up in the atmosphere the less protection you have from radiation thats constantly bombarding the planet. Frequent fliers probably will blame the scans since you can't sue the sun and space.

The explosive sneaker guy didn't fit a profile (at least, not the profiles at the time). He was traveling on a new, clean British passport.

Well maybe people should start being more responsible for their own health and safety

Profiling is unconstitutional and extremely biased on standards that law enforcement sets. Janet Napolitano would like to "profile" every american who served in the armed forces as possible terrorists. Police departments all over this country love to profile people on their race, tattoos, long hair etc.

No, Profiling does not work

You know, that is a really good question. Just a month or so ago when the powers that be decided that mammograms shouldn't be done until age 50 and then every other year, I saw multiple posters on multiple forums agreeing with that because of the, supposed, risk from mammograms. So, what is the risk from all these body scans? Does anyone really know?

He had 80 GRAMS, NOT 8.

I agree, citizens do need to be aware and do their part.

Personally I wouldn't mind the body scans, at first I didn't like the idea but I have changed my mind, providing the risk is small. I fly, at most, once a year or so so I'm not to concerned. But, in truth, add in body scans, mammograms twice a year and it does add up. I have not heard the body scan proponents even address the risk of these scans.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nationa...s9fkAIZnzXY8oJ

"Probably," just doesn't cut it for me.

The "underwear bomber" (yes, that is what they are calling him) was on a "watch" list, his own father notified the CIA a month ago with a warning about his own son. He bought a one-way ticket and CHECKED NO LUGGAGE. To me, those are huge red flags.

FTR, I am NOT blaming Barack Obama for this.

I said probably because I have no idea of the amount of radiation and am not all that bothered, the amount you bombard yourself with when flying is so high that if you are worried about the scan, you shouldnt be flying

Since you don't feel like looking it up http://www.sciencedaily.com/videos/2...ation_risk.htm talks about it and if you look at the related stories there's more on it. Biggest factor is how often, when, and how high - and if it's storming. (flying closer to the poles would result in a lot more exposure as well due to the thinner magnetosphere over the poles.) If you fly enough for the scans to be an issue, then just flying that often would have exposed you more than the scans do. Part of it is that those scans just use x-rays, the other types of radiation coming from space (such as gamma rays) can be worse.

Interestingly, it mentions that 10 rem as being the max a person should be exposed to in a life time - equivalent to 400 x-rays or 3 cts. I've have 4 CTs, nearly an hour in an MRI, and many x-rays. No one has sent up any alarms of this. Many others with health issues have had just as much or even more than that - often over just a couple year time period. It makes airport scans seem rather normal.


And didn't anyone else take that "Profiling WORKS" comment as sarcasm?

and you know what, if you are a frequent traveler like that, that is not all you are concerned about it...

I was one, and hopefully soon I will be back traveling 50-75% of my time again... There are sooooo many more issues if you want to really come to it. It is a give and take though - a matter of choice - nobody is forcing you to travel frequently; you choose to do so...
When I traveled that much I dealt with frequent time changes, altitude changes, lack of sleep - like LACK OF SLEEP , frequent changes of blood pressure, chances of blood clots, liquid retention, eating out all the time (too much sodium) and not enough health food, dry air in hotels and airplanes, GERMS GERMS, too much alcohol because of events, and a complete lack of routine.
You definitely have a shorter life-spam, no doubt about it...
So really is you are a frequent traveler, I guarantee you those scans are not going to make too much of a difference... Speaking for myself, I reather go thought it and get going quickly than stay on line forever waiting and waiting and waiting... I take that scan any time...
Plus, if that will make me safer, by all means bring it on.

O/T but if you get back to traveling a lot and due long distance flights - look into a pair of compression hose. They may feel a little uncomfortable at first, but they're not that bad (my BP's so low I have to wear them often).
I have a friend who lost his dad a couple years ago - his father had just gotten back from a long trip and was out with his gf when a clot in his leg came loose and killed him.

I use them They are a life saver.... I use them in the plane, and for trade shows too, when I am standing up for 8-10 hours... That, socks for diabetics, and special shoes, made for doctors. Oh, yeah

Just because this administration is not up there rattling sabres and acting like cowboys, doesn't mean they've dropped the ball. You can run but you can't hide, bin laden. Oh, wait, he already proved he can hide, didn't he? Talk is cheap.

Well, the thing is, want it or not, who can do the most, has the most power, money and ability to do something IS the Government...
So, one can just be the pissed off, whining about them, talking, rebelling against it, or, can try to help and do your part. Because in the end, who else can do more than them?
Security in the air is no small task - just think about the logistics of it. Millions of people travel everyday in the US. Hundreds per plane - you have 45 minutes to scan, board and seat all these passengers, their carry on luggage and their checked luggage
And the World can not stop for a solution to come around, because a LOT of business depends on traveling. The World waits, the economy breaks.
I am sure the government is not acting alone on this task - there are plenty of people throwing ideas at them. And guess what, get a better, and SOUND, feasible idea? Well... Throw it out there. Call CNN... Don't like CNN, call FOX news. But I think those people are much more in the game than we are. It is the Govenment, Scientists, private companies... A lot of people are working on this...

Somebody DID drop the ball, even Obama said so - he said the mistake was inexcusable. He was in a watch list, but never got put in the no fly list... But he had a round trip ticket.

That's a little off. The regulatory limits are 5 rem per year and the maximum cumulative dose is 1 rem times your age. So my boss, who's pushing 80, could have a maximum dose of 80 rem throughout his career. Those limits are set for people who are radiation workers though. The idea behind the limits is that if a person receives the maximum allowable dose over his career, his additional probability of developing a fatal cancer would be the same as the probability that a worker in another field (say a construction worker) would be killed on the job in an accident. Interestingly, in Europe flight crews are considered radiation workers and their dose is routinely monitored and limits are enforced. In the US, they're not considered radiation workers and the doses aren't monitored.

Medical exposures fall completely outside those limits though. In general, the guideline is that the possible effects of the radiation from a procedure should be no worse than the likely outcome if the procedure is not done. In cancer treatment, organ doses of as high as 7-800 rem are administered. That level is almost 100% fatal if administered to the whole body in a single dose, but since it's being used to (hopefully) kill off a tumor which could otherwise kill the patient, the potential outcome makes the risk acceptable.

As for the scanner, I found an article about it here:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/backscatter.htm

The big difference between this and the x-ray machine in the doctor's office is that they're not looking at x-rays passing through the person, but rather bouncing them off. That means they can use lower energy x-rays (which in general penetrate less). They can also use fewer of the x-rays. Those two factors are what give the lower dose. According to the numbers, every 3 hours on a plane is the equivalent of about 200 of those scans, so if you're a frequent traveler, the scanner is the least of your worries.

It wouldn't matter... He was a British Citizen, and could paid the ticket with cash or credit - the ticket was under his name - that is not necessarily a red flag if he had paid with his credit card. His name was already in the ticket, what difference would that make?
One way tickets yes - you go straight into the SSSS list, and go through a lot more security.
Checking no luggage? I did a lot of traveling with only hand luggage, so I am not sure how much of that raises a flag either - the more you travel, the less luggage you want to take with you... Waste of time, so traveling with a carry-on is not uncommon.
The only thing that has ever landed me on SSSS is one tickets.

That's not so much a profile issue as a "why the frack wasn't he on the legendary no-fly list" issue.
The...wait what now? I'm not familiar with "SSSS lists" and I've flown one-way with a declared firearm in checked baggage and the only thing the TSA did differently was hand-search my duffel to make sure I'd unloaded it (stuff happens in low pressure and a round detonating with a barrel around it to point it in a specific direction is what we call a bad thing)...and the main reason I know they did that is I stuck around as they did so, so they could re-lock the case and give me back the key. I got to watch (from a distance) and everything. Also, they left a little card behind. Anyway, it wasn't any different from every other time, at the security gate.

SSSS is a code that goes into your ticket for extra security screening - a lot extra security screening.