farleyv was correct

My cat Sasha, who was not eating last week, http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=209701 has urine crystal issue. He had been fine since Christmas eve. This morning however I witnessed him spend 15 minutes in the litterbox but left nothing. He had pooped and peed overnight. Three hours later he spent seven minutes peeing in the box. Then when he came out I noticed he was still in a crouching position. He stayed in this position for about 5 minutes. He left a dribble of urine along with a lump of a crystaline substance. About the size of a grain of rice. He then left two more dribbles, (no more crystal lumps), on the floor before deciding he felt fine again.

I called the vet and have an appointment in Two hours. She told me to not allow him to pee till she got to see him and do a urinalysis. She is talking about treating a UTI without having seen any UR test results. Now my previous faith in her is being put to the test since I discussed the possibility with her last week (on farleyv's advice).

Can a cat have crystals without an infection? Sasha is a former feral and getting him to anything he does not want to do is a chore if not impossible.

Yes they can ...

Do you have any rescue remedy?

yes, crystals and UTIs are two different conditions, though they often come hand in hand.

BOTH or EITHER can be fatal in a male cat, if left untreated, as a male can block very quickly, and once block required emergency veterinary attention

Crystal formation is treated with diet, Urinary tract infections are treated with antibiotics.

Both conditions are very painful for kitty. give him something to drink (even tuna water) to help fill his bladder, and keep him crated so he can't get to the litter box, so he will have enough pee in his bladder for the vet to get a sample.

If the vet says his bladder is not full enough, leave him there until it is.

rereading your other thread I see there were a couple of us who were extremely concerned that the straining to pee was not addressed. I hope permanent damage has not been done, by this being left so long. I feel mighty annoyed with that vet you saw last time.

I am seeing the very same vet again as no other local vet can see him today.

Yes they do get crystals with out infection.
Male cats can block up and die from them also.
I hope you can find a better vet.

Well, you already know cats can have crystals without an infection.

But no one's mentioned yet that there are two types of crystals: struvite and calcium oxalate.

Both need to be addressed by diet. Struvite crystals are created when the pH of their urine is too alkaline - this can be addressed by giving them an acidifier (our vet uses albeta, but there are many different kinds), but to prevent future problems, you need to lower the magnesium in the diet. Calcium oxalate crystals are... more complicated. Simply lowering the pH doesn't solve the problem - they can only be controlled through diet. ...and calcium oxalate stones tend to occur in urine that is too acid. We had two cats that had calcium oxalate crystals and one cat with struvite crystals.

I think a search of this forum or the nutrition forum will help you get food ideas.

We simply moved to Science Diet c/d (which can only be bought at a vet ). This worked for our gang. It's expensive not great quality food - but our problem happened before there was such a wide range of quality foods available. ...and now since it works so well, we don't want to switch.

Here's a good article: http://www.peteducation.com/article....+1402&aid=2729

for Sasha!

Since Sasha was still dribbling urine After he passed the lump, I am thinking there is another lump blocking him also. From what I have read it seems that this obstruction can be cleared with catheterization. Is that the best or only way?

Meantime I crated Sasha. He is not pleased. It was too soon after being crated last Monday. He never fought it harder. I'm lucky I'm not bleeding. Fifty minutes till vet time.

Sometimes a vet expressing the bladder will pass the clump, but catheterization may have to take place.

Do make sure you find out what type of crystals they are.

OH - did I mention that either way, increased water intake is important? We mix warm water in with the wet food we feed them.

Some cats really respond to a water fountain. Ours did.

Sasha has always been a good drinker. This morning I was counting while he was lapping. I quit after 70 laps. That was just one drink. The water bowl always needs to topped off. I usually wash it just once each day.

Well that's good!

Gee, I am sorry I was right...it is a tough thing to go through. Stressful. But you are now armed with good information from everyone here. They helped me so very much.

My cat Beeba had to spend 2 days at the vet on a cath. Then they flushed him out a couple of times too. You will get an education! But knowledge is power and learn all you can. The University of Minnesota has a great site for just this thing. Information on both struvite and oxylate crystals.

Please keep us posted you have alot of support here. It is a nasty thing, but it is manageable. Stop and get an automatic water fountain. The more he drinks, the better. I will post the site as soon as I can find it. He will have to be on special food also.

Good luck!!

Google "uroliths in cats". Tons of good information. University of Minnesota is at bottom of page or just google it.

I am soooo sorry to hear this!! that Sasha will be ok.

Originally Posted by sharky

Do you have any rescue remedy?

Click to expand...

I presume this rescue remedy you talk about is the preparate of Flower Essence, or Dr Bachs drops, useful for cats having some very unpleasant experience, giving them a shock.
Another possibility may be a dosis of Feliway.... spray or diffuser.

EDIT: And this especial preparates name is of course "Rescue Remedy". as said by Sharky.

Sasha came home with me from the vet. He was diagnosed with a urinary tract infection. They used a test strip to check for blood in the urine. The result showed blood content at the high end of the scale. the vet thinks the urination difficulty is due to an inflamed and swollen urethra. I'll be treating him with Clavomox by way of an eyedropper. He is urinating so he is not blocked. Poor thing peed in the cat taxi on the way to the vet. They took the sample from the taxi. It's going to be a struggle to administer the meds. Wish me luck.

I overheard the senior veterenarian and clinic owner tell the young vet treating Sasha, "Ther is no way that (the crystalline lump) came out of a cat's urethra". The young vet did not impart this wisdom to me though. She told me it could have and suggested a diet that will help prevent it from happening again. I don't know if she meant it or was just humoring me. I am fairly sure of what I saw.

Has anyone ever seen this before? I am going to research it now per farleyv's suggestion.

Actually, if it did come out of Sasha's urethra, that could explain the blood! So I really don't know what to think here. I assume they're going to culture the sample? Then they should know for sure within a day or so whether infection is present or not.

However, if I understood our vet correctly, antibiotics also act as an anti-inflammatory when it comes to feline UTIs, so can help calm the inflamed bladder wall/urethra, whatever the cause.

The think you need to be sure of is whether or not there are crystals in his urine. Was there enough of a sample for them to check? If not, you may want to consider confining Sasha one morning or afternoon after he drinks a lot of water, and providing him a litterbox with a little bit of rice in it. When poured off, (at least according to our vet) it's a "clean" enough sample to test for crystals or infection (just make sure you get it before the rice absorbs it all! ).

Continued for poor Sasha!

The vet showed me the urine sample under the microscope. Crystals were present. She said this was normal and these were "good" crystals. Wonder why I am confused?

She sent home with me two cans of Hill's Prescription Diet c/d. Fat chance sasha will eat it.

My cats love Hills C/D...go figure, but I'm not going to argue, since Dante's last urinalysis was nice and clean.

When my girl had liquid clavomox, I was able to mix it with her wet food...I did have to amp up the tastiness of the food as the days went by, but a little bit of chicken baby food went well. But, check with the vet before you feed him anything other than the prescription food, assuming he takes to the prescription food. FWIW, my girl's appetite went down with the antibiotic; came right back when she finally finished her doses.

Besides the rice or fish tank gravel tricks, there's also a little kit with plastic litter the vet can give you if they want you to try getting a sample at home. My boy never did go for the kit litter, though, and I was too afraid to leave him in the bathroom with that box for more than 10 hours at a time - I was worried the stress of being isolated would add to the crystal formation. Vet eventually got a sample with the old needle, though.

Good luck!

Beeba also had bloody urine, but he did have crystals.

I used aquarium gravel, small and the smoothest edged you can find. They also make a dust free gravel. That also worked very well.

Also, put a bit of unsalted buter on the pill. It makes it go down easier and your cat will spend some time after washing which will encourage swallowing. That will ensure the pill goes down nicely. O sorry, I re read your post and see you are using the liquid.

I hope you get your answers to whether or not your cat has crystals. I would insist they tell you what kind he has. You are paying the bill.

Please keep us informed. :vibes for you and your kitty!