Need Some Nutrition Advice! =)

hello there cat lovers!
hope you are enjoying this lovely season.

well.. I have some concerns regarding my cats nutrition, hoepfully someone here will be able to help me out a bit.

heres a bit of background info, incase its necesary:
I have 5 cats. The oldest being 10 years old and the youngest is about 4 years old.
All of them have been fixed. 4 of them are female and one is a male.
We leave a bowl of food and my cats just eat whenever they want. At night the bowl is put away (avoids any strays from coming in our house!).

Now onto my question.
My male cat is around 7 yrs old, when he was 4 years old he had crystals and he almost died. He had surgery and then the vet told us he should eat "proplan urinary care".
At first we tried to separate him from the rest, we did all sorts of things but in the end the only thing that worked was to mix the regular food with proplan.. so now all of my cats eat a mixture of their regular food and max's food.
We mix it in a rate of 60% urinary care and 40% regular cat food.

I don't remember which cat food we buy (my cats are being taken cared by my parents because I moved overseas) but I do remember it wasn't a crappy one but it wasn't the absolute best either.

ANYWAYS.. I would love to know if there is any food aside from proplan urinary care that would be safe for max to eat?
the vet doesn't seem to want to give me any other brand because he works for proplan so he can't recomend anything else.. agh!

I would just like to know if I have other options.. and what other food I could give my cats that would help max as well..

btw we give them dry food, I would love to give them wet food but I can't afford it.. with 5 cats it gets quite expensive (everything has to be multiplied by 5!).

Originally Posted by kateyes

We leave a bowl of food and my cats just eat whenever they want. At night the bowl is put away (avoids any strays from coming in our house!).

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?? How do strays get in your house? My two cats have dry food available 24/7. There have been no problems and neither are overweight. And both recently were given a clean bill of health.

Originally Posted by Persi & Alley

?? How do strays get in your house? My two cats have dry food available 24/7. There have been no problems and neither are overweight. And both recently were given a clean bill of health.

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Most likely they are outdoor kitties. When we put food out for our outdoor kitties, stray cats were just some of the few critters we attracted at night.

The best thing for your cats is canned food, especially if one of your cats is prone to urinary tract problems. I've read on various threads on this forum that you can feed a low quality canned (e.g. Friskies) and a high quality dry if money is the issue. Depending on what the issue with your cat's urinary tract, you may have to watch the magnesium and phosphorus levels. But make sure they are getting enough moisture (through their food or water fountain).

A male cat who almost died because of urinary tract problems should be on a prescription food only, for life, in my opinion.

What makes you think the vet works for Pro Plan? Vets get very little if any profit from selling prescription foods. In fact it usually is not convenient for them to carry them at all, they keep them in stock for the client's convenience.

If you don't like the Proplan there are other prescription foods to choose from, your vet can write a prescription and you can get the food elsewhere.

Maybe I missed something but I dont' see where the OP mentioned the vet working for Proplan? At my clinic, they do make quite a bit of money on Hills, Medical, purina, iams, and royal canin. They get the food at good prices and then double the food. They may not get commission but they get deals.

Purina has a prescription food called Purina SOx. Royal Canin has a Urinary SO; Hills has c/d. Wysong has a Uretic formula as well.I do believe all these formulas come in dry.

Would it be possible to feed half wet and half dry?

Originally Posted by SweetPea24

Maybe I missed something but I dont' see where the OP mentioned the vet working for Proplan? At my clinic, they do make quite a bit of money on Hills, Medical, purina, iams, and royal canin. They get the food at good prices and then double the food. They may not get commission but they get deals.

Purina has a prescription food called Purina SOx. Royal Canin has a Urinary SO; Hills has c/d. Wysong has a Uretic formula as well.I do believe all these formulas come in dry.

Would it be possible to feed half wet and half dry?

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from the first post in this thread:

the vet doesn't seem to want to give me any other brand because he works for proplan so he can't recomend anything else.. agh!

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I don't see anything wrong with a vet making a profit on anything they do or sell, as it is their business, their livlihood, but unless the clinic you work for is huge, or has a store attached, I am surprised to hear a clinic that carries that much variety.

The vet clinics I know are always strapped for space and carry the prescription foods as a convenience and courtesy for their clients, only.

My clinic, in fact, is trying to get people to use an online/home delivery order process for maintenance prescription foods, which will give them no profit at all.

They do not mark up the foods to make large profits, they charge the going rate. A 10 pound bag of Hills c/d multicare kibble is $34.99, at my clinic and at a clinic on the other side of the country.

Most independent vets do not "work for" food companies. They do not "push" prescription foods. They carry the foods so when a client presents with a medical condition that requires a special food they can hand it over at that moment, no delay.

And if they make a few cents on that bag of food, I don't mind. They have expenses just like the rest of the world. I don't know why everyone is always so against a vet making a little profit. my vet has a family and pets of her own. She chose her field for the love of animals, but surely she has a right to make a living at it, too.

Sorry about going off topic. Off my soap box now.

Otto: It sounds as though your clinic may be an exception (which is awesome), but generally speaking, vets do profit handsomely from selling commercial pet foods, as even veterinarian organizations acknowledge (nor is that the only ethical issue):

Just two of many articles available:
Dolittler: How do vets recommend pet food? (Part 2: Education)

Canadian Veterinary Medical Association Journal: Veterinary Medical Ethics

Kateyes, wet food is much, much better for cats than dry kibble (in fact, dry foods aren't really good for cats at all - google "the dangers of dry foods"). Even the least expensive wet foods are healthier for cats than some of the best kibble available, so I wouldn't rule out a wet food diet as an option just yet.

However, urinary tract issues can be fatal. If I were in your shoes, I would switch to a vet that is willing to discuss the issues with you and, under his or her guidance, transition your cats to an all-wet diet. Actually, I recommend a wholly raw diet, as it is the most species-appropriate (and can also be the least expensive) but I know not everyone is, as yet, comfortable with the notion.

Good luck!

Meaning no disrespect but your links are not convincing arguments. One is a personal blog, and the other is a question, discussing ethical the selling of commercial foods.

We are talking about prescription foods. Prescription foods are made the way they are for specific reasons, to target specific disorders. Vets carry them as a convenience to their clients. And I see nothing wrong with them making a little profit on those foods, but I am not convinced that they do make very much.

Every cat is different, this is true. But a male cat with crystal problems is going to be safest and healthiest on a prescription food that is made specifically to control his disorder.

The cat in this case had crystals, almost died and had to have surgery. The prescription food he's been on since then, as far as I can tell by the one post, has been controlling his disease. Switching around to a non prescription food is asking for trouble, in my opinion.

My opinion being based on experience, both personal, and, reading other experiences in the last 15 years in on line cat forums.

Originally Posted by otto

Meaning no disrespect but your links are not convincing arguments. One is a personal blog, and the other is a question, discussing ethical the selling of commercial foods.

We are talking about prescription foods. Prescription foods are made the way they are for specific reasons, to target specific disorders. Vets carry them as a convenience to their clients. And I see nothing wrong with them making a little profit on those foods, but I am not convinced that they do make very much.

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I too think vets make quite a bit of money on the food (both prescription and non) that they sell. Just look at the price of the food....$40+ for a small bag? Plus the food is pretty much all junk; by-products (if that in some of the foods, corn, and a whole ton of other fillers.

The prescription food may appear to be "junk" but it is made the way it is for a reason. To target a specific health disorder.

I have read some specific breakdowns about the ingredients used, and why, and how they work in the affected animal's body, about these prescription foods, but I am not a chemist, so while it made sense, I am not able to repeat it intelligibly. (except for the fact that corn is used as a protein source that is low in ash and keeps the urine acidified properly, but then that is common knowledge )

It is not all filler and "crap" as some seem to think. Mazy is on the c/d kibble. She is six years old, and has been eating c/d for over 4 years, after 3 UTIs and constant trouble with crystal formation in the first 18 months of her life.

Her coat is thick and shiny, and low shedding. Her eyes are bright, her brain is active, Her energy level is that of a one year old kitten. She never stops playing or working (Mazy has many Jobs in this house!).

Her stools are the smallest and least odorous of all three cats. This means that her body is using what is in the food, that there is not a lot of waste.

Her teeth are shiny and white and strong. Granted, I brush them every day. But there is no tartar build up, and no stain. Her breath is fresh and sweet.

But of course the bottom line is: Her urine is being maintained at the proper pH, and staying crystal free. Something that has not been possible on any other diet I have tried for her. Including an all canned high quality commercial food diet.

Some cats are prone to things, because of genetics. The prescription foods are designed to counteract these biological faults in our kitties' bodies.

The price of the food is not outrageous. I spend more on the healthy cats' food than I do on Mazy's prescription food. And I am grateful the food is available, because otherwise, imagine what my vet bills would be like, every time Mazy developed another UTI.

And I say again, that I see no reason why a vet should feel ashamed for making some profit on an item they carry in their clinic. They have to live too. Why is it so terrible that a vet make a profit on something they sell?

However, I stand by my opinion that most vets do not make very much money on prescription foods. They carry them for the convenience of the client.

As for commercial (non prescription) foods, well if vets want to add to their income by selling them, no one is forcing you to buy them there, you can get them in any store.

In fact, if you think you can get a better price for the prescription food elsewhere, by all means ask your vet to write a prescription for the food, and buy it elsewhere.

Originally Posted by otto

Meaning no disrespect but your links are not convincing arguments. One is a personal blog, and the other is a question, discussing ethical the selling of commercial foods.

Click to expand...

Then I guess it's a good thing I'm not attempting to make a convincing argument, isn't it?

The facts speak for themselves, opinions notwithstanding. *shrug* And when someone makes a gain, of any sort, from the sale of a product only he or she can prescribe and/or sell, that's a clear-cut textbook-style ethical issue.

Kinda like asking the fox to devise a fox-proof hen house.

Vets are just people, some good, some indifferent, some I wouldn't send my worst enemy's cat to. Thus, until this issue is addressed, there are going to be cat owners finding themselves exactly where Kateyes is.

And don't even get me started on the "prescription" foods themselves. It is my belief (backed up by plenty of folks with all the expertise you could wish for) that dry, incredibly non-species-appropriate kibble is to blame for most of the diseases that "prescription" foods seek to "fix". It's a proven cause and effect correlation.

Otto, I applaud your passionate defense of this topic and I wish you only the best. My initial intention was to simply back up Kateyes comment about her vet with some facts, and I have done that. Now, however, it looks like her thread's been taken off track, so I'm not going to comment on this part of this discussion again. <<<hugs>>>

Originally Posted by kateyes

hello there cat lovers!
hope you are enjoying this lovely season.

well.. I have some concerns regarding my cats nutrition, hoepfully someone here will be able to help me out a bit.

heres a bit of background info, incase its necesary:
I have 5 cats. The oldest being 10 years old and the youngest is about 4 years old.
All of them have been fixed. 4 of them are female and one is a male.
We leave a bowl of food and my cats just eat whenever they want. At night the bowl is put away (avoids any strays from coming in our house!).

Now onto my question.
My male cat is around 7 yrs old, when he was 4 years old he had crystals and he almost died. He had surgery and then the vet told us he should eat "proplan urinary care".
At first we tried to separate him from the rest, we did all sorts of things but in the end the only thing that worked was to mix the regular food with proplan.. so now all of my cats eat a mixture of their regular food and max's food.
We mix it in a rate of 60% urinary care and 40% regular cat food.

I don't remember which cat food we buy (my cats are being taken cared by my parents because I moved overseas) but I do remember it wasn't a crappy one but it wasn't the absolute best either.

ANYWAYS.. I would love to know if there is any food aside from proplan urinary care that would be safe for max to eat?
the vet doesn't seem to want to give me any other brand because he works for proplan so he can't recomend anything else.. agh!

I would just like to know if I have other options.. and what other food I could give my cats that would help max as well..

btw we give them dry food, I would love to give them wet food but I can't afford it.. with 5 cats it gets quite expensive (everything has to be multiplied by 5!).

Click to expand...

Likely your vet does NOT work for pro plan but prefers it over some of the other formulas and brands available... If your vet is unwilling to discuss other options TRY a New Vet IMHO...

Otto has far more experience with this particular issue than I do ... My cats have ph issues with some uti issues but no crystals ...

Different things work for different cats , kinda like people ...

My conventional vets did think RXs foods were a good place to start , my holistic vets for the most part AGREED ... Remember an Rx diet is a food with Medicinal qualities... My holistic vets and I BOTH researched and then DISCUSSED the options... for me it was non rx foods with careful ingredient watching and % of certain items Plus meds as needed

Yes there are some other options BUT BUT BUT .... NONE should be tried WITHOUT working with a Qualified VET or animal nutritionist...

BOTTOM line NO one on here is a vet and no one is qualified to tell you what you should do ....
Your vet has given you the information and suggested treatment based on your catâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s signs, symptoms and history. Not following the vetâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s advice could be detrimental to your catâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s health. Please discuss any potential changes in treatment with your vet first. This can usually be done over a phone call if the cat has already been seen about the same problem. If you are not happy with your vetâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s advice, or suggested treatment, get a second veterinary opinion, do not only take advice you have received online from people who do not have your catâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s full medical history.
the above goes with rule number one on the forums
No online advice can replace direct veterinary intervention. If you suspect that your cat may be ill, please contact your vet immediately. You are welcome to look for advice in the health forum while waiting for that appointment, but never delay proper veterinary care waiting for Internet advice. Remember that cats, and especially kittens, are very adept in keeping pain to themselves and delaying treatment may cause irreversible damage.


OFF topic but being discussed...

Yes Vets make a profit on RX foods but it is an ave of ten percent... ie a 30$ bag yields 3$ ... at my vet a fecal yields a profit of 600% more...

Some Vets had some if not most schooling paid by a food company and are then Required to CARRY it in their offices for a certain number of years... I have known several about 95% of the time they are NO more likely to recommend that product over one they can order or also carry... Vets like humans drs should be weighing the pros and cons with the individual they are treating ...

I have my cat on Hills CD, and it's working for his struvite crystals - and his poo is smaller and less 'smelly' than ever. Prescription foods are prescribed for specific reasons - and while the ingredients may look 'strange' to a layperson, to me, the proof is in the pudding - a healthy cat.

As has been mentioned, no one here is either a vet nor, I believe, a certified feline nutritionist - - and only you, and your vet, can make informed decisions about your cat's diet, and have the diagnostic tests done to see if a course of treatment is working. The internet is simply not a substitute for a professional exam. And, so many of the so-called 'sources' on the internet are, well, less than credible once you start looking into them and seeing what biases the sources themselves have. IMO, if you have questions beyond what you and your vet can discuss, why not contact sources like Cornell or Tufts vet schools and get their take on the situation?

And, no, vets, in my experience, aren't making a ton of money on the foods they carry - my vet had never pushed any particular food, until we needed the prescription line. She did, however, happy examine and discuss any diet plan I asked her about. My vets' practice carry several prescription lines.

BTW, there is dry prescription food for cats with crystal issues - my own cat eats a mix of both.

Good luck - we all worry and want only the best for our babies, and the internet can provide a lot of information - the trick is to judge how really trustworthy and reliable the information is.