Sir Lard Bottom and the Vet

When I took in Archie from the pound and took him for his first vet visit, he weighed 11 and 3/4 lbs. and was good sized at at weight. That was in July.

He has been eating and eating... his food and the other boys. He came to me with chronic diarrheah, smelly butt and gas and it has been an ongoing problem.

I met a wonderful vet who is working with us on changing policy at a local county pound, so I decided to take Arch there...

Well.. he tipped the scales at 14.8 lbs!!

She said - not an ounce more on him. Cut way back on the carbs... more wet food, much less dry and she didn't like the LID dry for him b/c of the pea carbs.

She also took him off the low dose metronidizole (yes!) and said let's try a water soluble fiber - Metamucil - and see if that sucks up the liquid in his gut.

I was also directed to keep a journal of what he eats, how much, state of his poo and pee and what is going on in the house - she is wondering if unseen stress is causing or adding to his problem as one possibility. Given his weight and only a few inflammatory cells in his cytology... she does not think he has IBD....but that the gut is "unhappy" to use her word.

So - we just wrapped up day one of the new regimen. He didn't like the Metamucil. He knew it was in his food so I will have to use stinky fish to get him to eat it.

No treats for him. Well, maybe one or two. I have really been over indulgent with that. I figured they are approx 2 cals each... if he eats 10 or 12 in a day.. .that is 40-50 cals... times seven... times one month... approx 1,200 cals in a month. That is a third of a pound. So... he is getting maybe one or two a day... Let's see if that helps.

Also .... back to an exercise regimen. He is more like.. Hey, mom...bring that toy over here so I can kill it!

I am making him work for it more. And the other cats are having fun chasing the Feline Flyer ( Da Bird knockoff).

Wish me luck.

Wishing you alot of Archie being good

I like your vets thinking on the pea thing...lol.. I think that and potatos

She is wonderful, IMO. The only thing that I DO NOT like is that she does declaws. I have to ask her about that.

She is a microbiologist by training and THEN went to vet school..... so she really doesn't like long term, low dose use of antibios. Man I am so with her on that....

She knew I had tried pumpkin for Archie... and that it didn't work. I didn't get a chance to tell her about the marshmallow root or the slippery elm... but I will. the MM root helped for a little while.. but he had a flare up and I put him on the Metro.

Re: Arch's weight.. she doesn't want to mess around with his dry food right now... but did think out loud about putting him on a diabetic food regimen... but opted to go with predominately wet food for now. High protein low carb.

I like the way your vet thinks! Be prepared for Archie's "complaints" about putting him on the "starvation diet"! I solved this problem by playing with my girl when she'd want food but it wasn't time for her to eat.

Has he been tested for TF? It's not normally tested in fecal tests and is a very common cause of chronic diarrhea.

http://www.highgait.com/page/page/3485008.htm

Originally Posted by stephanietx

I like the way your vet thinks! Be prepared for Archie's "complaints" about putting him on the "starvation diet"!

I solved this problem by playing with my girl when she'd want food but it wasn't time for her to eat.

Has he been tested for TF? It's not normally tested in fecal tests and is a very common cause of chronic diarrhea.

http://www.highgait.com/page/page/3485008.htm

Click to expand...

Yeah, I know. So far, not a peep... my "whiner" is actually Prowler, who is a very lean cat.. he is constantly asking for wet food! Last night.. we played with them for 40 mins instead of giving in to the demands!

I know about TF. I need to say something to the vet about it. Not always visible on slides/cytology.

Addie - My vet also wanted to put Bugsy on a Diabetic diet... Purina DM - To tell you the truth, if he handled chicken, I would think about it...

He also told me about fiber... How much Metamucil did you try? 1 capsule mixed with the food? Are you going to do 1 capsule a day, or 1 capsule per meal?

This is the third fiber I am trying for Bugsy - the others didn't work out... Guar gum gave him diarrhea, and Flax Seed the vet said too many calories... So, he wants me to do Metamucil now, and adjust it according to his poop - Carolina the poop watcher!
You know, he has a poop problem, AND a weight problem . He has chronic soft stool (NOT diarrhea, all test clean, not painful, no blood, etc... just once a day, like regular kitties do). His vet says it is just like he is - and I just need to deal with it.... he is not sick, not to worry about it... Basically... give the fiber until I see that the poop gets formed. That is the dosage it will work for him.
He said that should also keep him fuller, making him less hungry, and eating less...
Meanwhile.......
This post makes me think about something... I will remove Acana from his mix...
Orijen 6-fish is high high protein, low low carbs, pretty similar to Purina DM (with MUCH BETTER ingredients), but Acana, even though it is grain free, it has a lot more carbs and less proteins.... So...... I think it is time to go back to 100% Orijen 6-fish.

Yeah Addie... our boys seem to be on the same boat!!

BTW Addie - I Think I just found my solution - HOLLY COW!!!!!! Evo Herring and Salmon Formula! - completely chicken free for Bugsy!!!

Look at this Nutrition Analysis:
Crude Protein (min)\t50 %
Crude Fat (min)\t\t18 %
Crude Fiber (max)\t\t3 %
Moisture (max)\t\t10 %
Linoleic Acid (Omega-6 Fatty Acid) (min)\t\t1.5 %
Carbohydrates NFE (max)\t10 %
Vitamin E (min)\t\t300 IU/kg
Vitamin C (min)\t\t500 mg/kg
Taurine (min)\t\t0.2 %
Magnesium (max)\t\t0.15 %
Omega-3 Fatty Acids (min)\t\t2.4 %
Total Microorganisms (min)\t\t90,000,000
CFU/lb

Compare with Purina DM:
Crude Protein (Min) \t51.0%
Crude Fat (Min) \t15.0%
Crude Fiber (Max) \t3.0%
Moisture (Max) \t12.0%
Vitamin A (Min) \t18,000 IU/kg
Vitamin E (Min) \t100 IU/kg
Carbohydrate* (Max) \t18.0%

It has 10% less carbs than DM!!!! Holly cow!!!
And look at the ingredients:
Purina DM:
Poultry by-product meal, soy protein isolate, corn gluten meal, soy flour, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), corn starch, animal liver flavor, calcium carbonate, phosphoric acid, fish oil, potassium chloride, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, DL-Methionine, choline chloride, taurine, powdered cellulose, salt, Vitamin E supplement, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, niacin, manganese sulfate, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite. L-4574

L-4574

Evo:
Herring
Salmon Meal
Salmon
Herring Meal
Peas
Eggs
Herring Oil
Pea Fiber
Natural Flavors
Apples
Sunflower Oil
Carrots
Cottage Cheese
Dried Chicory Root
DL Methionine
Vitamins and Minerals (Ascorbic Acid, Beta Carotene, Biotin, Calcium Carbonate, Calcium Iodate, Choline Chloride, Cobalt Carbonate, Cobalt Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Dicalcium Pantothenate, dl-Methionine, Folic Acid, Iron Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Niacin, Potassium Chloride, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin C Supplement (Sodium Ascorbate), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement (Alpha Tocopherol), Zinc Proteinate)
Direct-Fed Microbials

I like Evo much better!!! I think I found Bugsy's new food I hope little Hope likes it too!

Just be careful with metamucil, I don't like it used in cats. It creates bulk, which creates huge stools. Huge stools can cause megacolon.

I wonder has a probiotic been tried? Fortiflora is good for this kind of problem. (or the gels, benebac or probios)

However for giving metamucial, I used to just mix it with a bit of water, wait a minute for it to form a lump, then just put it down Ootay's (rb 5/09) throat. A little dab of food on the nose for her to lick off to wash it down.

If you don't want all the sugar and additives that are in the metamucil you can get a pure psyllium fiber called Konsyl. That's what I always used. It's expensive to get, but not really, in the long run, because it is without fillers so you use much much less.

Increasing the wet (& adding a bit of water to it to make it a thick soupy/stew consistency) and increasing activity will help the hard stools and constipation issue, so use Metamucil or any fiber additive carefully. I make a mixture of wet food, canned pumpkin, and raw chicken for my girls and that's helped immensely with the pooping problem my older girl has.

Originally Posted by otto

Just be careful with metamucil, I don't like it used in cats. It creates bulk, which creates huge stools. Huge stools can cause megacolon.

I wonder has a probiotic been tried? Fortiflora is good for this kind of problem. (or the gels, benebac or probios)

However for giving metamucial, I used to just mix it with a bit of water, wait a minute for it to form a lump, then just put it down Ootay's (rb 5/09) throat. A little dab of food on the nose for her to lick off to wash it down.

If you don't want all the sugar and additives that are in the metamucil you can get a pure psyllium fiber called Konsyl. That's what I always used. It's expensive to get, but not really, in the long run, because it is without fillers so you use much much less.

Click to expand...

Metamucil is pretty much the same as Vetasyl., minus the cost and the malt flavor. The dosage is the same, capsule by capsule - 500mg of psyllium Husk per capsule. Vetasyl is widely recommended for cats.
On the capsules I don't see all these fillers you are talking about - perhaps you are referring to the powder?
I open one capsule and mix it to watered down wet food for Bugsy, and he has no trouble taking it.

*The #1 reason why my doctor prescribed Fiber to Bugsy was for weight control - and as I mentioned, this is the 3rd fiber I am trying (should been the first, he wanted me to do Psyllium, my research said otherwise)

#2 reason is a nice side effect, per se - is that poop issue. Side effect because that I control with proper food and Bene-bac. But it will be nice to have solid poop nonetheless.

And since Bugsy is a heavy boy, paying attention to the poop to adjust the fiber dosage is important.

Originally Posted by otto

Just be careful with metamucil, I don't like it used in cats. It creates bulk, which creates huge stools. Huge stools can cause megacolon.

I wonder has a probiotic been tried? Fortiflora is good for this kind of problem. (or the gels, benebac or probios)

However for giving metamucial, I used to just mix it with a bit of water, wait a minute for it to form a lump, then just put it down Ootay's (rb 5/09) throat. A little dab of food on the nose for her to lick off to wash it down.

If you don't want all the sugar and additives that are in the metamucil you can get a pure psyllium fiber called Konsyl. That's what I always used. It's expensive to get, but not really, in the long run, because it is without fillers so you use much much less.

Click to expand...

I use probiotics - but the powder, not the gel. Originally it was Animal Essentials Enzymes and Probio. Too expensive with seven cats b/c they all get it in the morning. I like Fortiflora but it is so expensive. I guess I could get it just for Arch and the others could have the Benebac powder.

I checked the label on the Metamucil when I bought it. Psyllium husks and sucrose. That's it. So I don't know about filler. I am giving him 1/4 tsp a day... mixed right into his food, per the vet. He can smell it so I am having to use really stinky fish to get him to take it. She did warn me that there would be a deterioration in the quality of his poo before the Meta would kick in as the metro works out of his system.

Sharky had recommended apple pectin to provide the same results at the Metamucil. If it doesn't work, I will talk to the vet about it.

I am not going to mess with their dry right now. I will bring up a good OTC grain free with her especially if it is more cost effective for ME should we get to that point.

Yeah - they are yin and yang... black and white... but both very sweet, wonderful boys who DESERVE to have happy guts!!