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Pedigree Question/TICA

post #1 of 18
12/18/09 at 11:43pm
Thread Starter 
I found a cat in Wrinkles Ped that is a experimental long hair/seal point.
The Reg number starts with 01T.
Could this be why her tail is so hairy.
There is also a cat with COP.
Isnt that for outcrosses?
Some of the reg numbers start with B3P,A2N,SPH,COT.
Can someone please tell me what they mean.
These are all TICA numbers.
The other numbers are NCT and BKKV but they are her lines from Belgium.
I am trying to learn as much as I can.
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post #2 of 18
12/19/09 at 5:44am
Go to the TICA site at this link http://tica.org/members/publications/reg_rules.pdf

Scroll down to page 22.
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post #3 of 18
12/19/09 at 7:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mews2much View Post
The other numbers are NCT and BKKV but they are her lines from Belgium.
I am trying to learn as much as I can.
The BKKV could mean the association called 'Belgische Korthaar Katten Vereniging' which would loosely be translated as a Belgian Shorthair Cat Associaton. NCT is also some european cat association, I've seen it in few german Siberian/Neva Masquerade pedigrees. We usually have somekind of short version of the association's name in front of the registration numbers here in europe.
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post #4 of 18
12/19/09 at 10:16am
Jack (and other Ocicats) have "foreign" backgrounds - Jack has some Europeon lines on his mom's side that are pretty cool (within the past 4-6 generations).

I really don't think that a long hair cat in the background makes a tail more fuzzy then normal in a Sphynx.
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post #5 of 18
12/19/09 at 10:25am
Molly has a hairy tail that is very similar to Bonnie's, just not as thick. Bonnie as I'm sure you know is a Devon Sphynx cross. I just looked at Molly's pedigree, and it shows Devon Rex 2 times in the GGG Grandparents. I'm sure this is where the hairy tail comes from, but its ok with me, I think she's perfect anyway
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post #6 of 18
12/20/09 at 10:25am
Thread Starter 
Thanks Everyone,
I will look on page 22.
Wrinkles lines on the sires side to go back to Belgium.
Be careful with sphynx that have Devon in them.
Devon Rex can carry the gene that causes spasticity.
Alot of the old lines of Sphynx do have Devon Rex in them.
Cleo has ASH in her but she has a very bald tail.
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post #7 of 18
12/25/09 at 8:56am
I've heard that Jacky about the Devons. I don't think that if you see it in the pedigree that it is bad because it is still considered an allowable cross and was way back down the lines.

I want to breed Bonnie back into the Sphynx line, we'll see what she gets. Her kittens will be F3's and so it'll be interesting. Once we see what she produces, we'll decide if we want to breed her again. If she pumps out all hairy kittens, we'll get her fixed and let her just be our gorgeous pet

Hair IS allowed, but not preferred. The one judge told me that Molly has the type of hair that will fall out. I don't know when it would, hasn't happened yet. I'm not worried about it as it may not transfer down to her kittens. Only time will tell.
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post #8 of 18
12/25/09 at 11:13am
Thread Starter 
You might get bald kittens.
Cleo is bald and she has ASH in her.
I am hoping Wrinkles tail hair falls out.
You might get some with hair and some without hair.
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post #9 of 18
12/25/09 at 5:30pm
Well, the next time she goes into heat, I'm sure Monty will breed her because he's obviously figured it out LOL

Whatever she has, they will be loved like any other kitten and I'm sure that they will have no problems finding loving homes either.
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post #10 of 18
12/25/09 at 7:18pm
Thread Starter 
They sure will find good loving homes.
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post #11 of 18
12/26/09 at 12:07am
I can't wait for babies. I don't care if they're pink or purple and have 3 legs, a kitten is a kitten and deserves all the love you can give. Of course, I want healthy babies but like I said, I am not at all discriminative (that a word??) against any cat.
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post #12 of 18
12/26/09 at 12:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by skewch View Post
I want to breed Bonnie back into the Sphynx line, we'll see what she gets. Her kittens will be F3's and so it'll be interesting.
Isn't she a Spyhnx x Devon? Making her a gen 1 Sphynx, so kittens from her to a Spyhnx would be gen 2?
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post #13 of 18
12/26/09 at 9:47am
On her pedigree, it shows that her father was an F1 and was a sphynx, her mom a Devon. Those two bred and had all coated kittens, Bonnie included so she is considered an F2. Unless I'm wrong, I assumed that then her kittens would be F3s. Correct me if I'm wrong
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post #14 of 18
12/26/09 at 2:24pm
I really don't know, as a new breeder I won't be dabbling in outcrosses for a while (if ever). Not ready for that yet.
Permission is needed for outcrossing here with strict guidlines, it's a lot of work.


With the father being F1, are you meaning he's a x? Or the first generation that can be called Spynx (for Ocicats that's generation 4)? I'm just curious, I find outcrossing interesting, but sometimes confusing I haven't come across outcross-outcross or outcross-early generation in Ocicats.
They breed outcross to full breed.

If sire was a full breed, then yes your Bonnie is second generation so her kitts would be 3rd.
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post #15 of 18
12/26/09 at 6:40pm
The father is a result of a cross, yes. He came out as a Sphynx and was bred to a Devon. Bonnie is offspring to him, so she is F2 as I understand it. Breeding her back to the Sphynx, she should have a greater chance of baldies, but that's up for debate I suppose. I would normally not cross breeds either, but because she is a result of one, I want to breed her back into the Sphynx line.

I find it weird though, that the first crossing (the father) resulted in a bald kitten. That's not how it usually works. F1s carry the genes but do not show, F2s there is some of both and then F3s should be full (lets say sphynx).

I no longer have communication with Bonnie's breeder so I can't ask any further questions. I saw her sire in person and didn't see any hair, but I guess if you're a poor breeder, you can make things look the way you want to make a sale.
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post #16 of 18
12/26/09 at 6:49pm
Mating early gen to early gen doesn't move them along, it's drops back. It's only when you have early gen to full pedigree that it moves forward.

Will be interesting to see what kittens you get.
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post #17 of 18
12/27/09 at 5:44am
IMO if you want Sphynx, then you should be crossing them back to Sphynx ONLY. Not anything else. Its possible the father's mother or father was a Devon cross and had Sphynx in him/her already. Then breeding that one to a Sphynx has a greater chance of bald. Do you have a copy of Bonnie's pedigree? That would show exactly what is behind her for several generations.
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post #18 of 18
12/27/09 at 10:40am
GK, I've been looking closely at her pedigree and from what I see, Bonnie's father was full Sphynx as all of his background. They bred Bonnie's grandfather to a devon but Bonnie's father is noted as a Sphynx. On Bonnie's grandmother's side, she is full Devon with NO Sphynx anywhere in that line. I did notice though, that he has an AOP in front of his pedigree number whereas all others are SBT. The only thing I can think of is that he was registered as a non-traditional Sphynx (hey may have had hair).
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