Adopter wants to declaw - should I deny or approve?

Originally Posted by BoomerKitty

I don't declaw my cats. Working in a shelter though with hundreds of cats coming through every day, it is very hard to turn down a loving home because they want to declaw. When it comes down to either declaw or death, I would choose the former.
I have been present for old style declaws when I worked at a vet clinic. It wasn't pretty with the big pressure bandages. I recently got to watch a laser declaw. It instantly cauterized the the cut and only a touch of nexaband was needed to seal the incision. The cat was up and around the next day as if nothing happened.
Something else to consider (this is just food for thought so don't crucify me). Technically a spay is an elective surgery. It is much more invasive and risky than a declaw yet we don't think twice about removing organs.
If your rescue has a contract that the cat has to come back to you if he doesn't work out, you will have control over the next home as well. I would give the people a chance but cover your back at the same time. You could even go as far as registering his microchip to YOU so if he lands in a shelter you can claim him.
Good luck in your decision.

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a spay is not ANYTHING like a declaw. I really hate this argument, meaning no disrespect to you, I like you quite a lot, but it's a ridiculous argument.

In the first place, Laser declaw is very expensive and new, and is not always the breeze you saw. It is not available in all places, and not many people can afford it.

Accidents and mess ups happen, just the same as in any other other amputation. In the second place, a cat needs his claws, he walks on his toes, declawing affects the way he walks for the rest of his life.

A spay is not an amputation. A spay benefits the cat's health and quality of life, and society. Declawing benefits no one but the lazy selfish owner.

Spaying a cat is nothing like declawing, the two are not comparable.

I am sure there can be complications as there can be with every surgery. I am not offended by your point of view, as this is a passionate subject. However, I feel that organ removal is every bit as risky if not more so than as amputation. While the reasons for them may be different the danger of dying under anesthesia is the same. I could also argue that if people were responsible pet owners then spaying wouldn't be necessary.
I own both spayed and intact dogs. None of the intact animals are allowed to mindlessly procreate.
I digress. To me what this boils down to is if declaw = forever home as opposed to being warehoused or euth'd then I would vote for declaw. There's no shortage of cats anywhere.

Yes, all surgery has risk, agreed. But 26 or more countries around the world manage without declawing of cats. People all around the world enjoy their cats without mutilating them. I pray the USA (and Canada too) will soon see the light.

Spaying and neutering is more than just preventing pregnancies and population control. It also provides many health benefits to the animal, which saves the pet owner lots of money .

Declawing.....it puts the cat on the level of an inanimate object. It's "just a cat" so let's cut off it's toes to suit us. bletch. And when the declawed cat starts having behavior problems, where does s/he end up? Dumped on the street, or at the shelter.

Not to mention many humans are routinely "spayed" if you will for many great health reasons with a lot of the same benifits as spaying an animal has.

Last time I checked we don't routinely amputate people's fingers and toes.

I am sure when a cat wakes up from a spay/neuter they know something has been done, but the effects are not as long lasting (I'm sure) as waking up with toes missing and always having to walk on feet that are somehow wrong for the rest of their lives.

Once they heal they will never notice or know that they have organs missing the way that they will notice and continue to do so with missing toes.




Ahhh...as far as the original topic of the thread...I would educate the potential adopters, yet still refuse them the cat because my fear of them saying one thing and doing another would be far too great.

I disagree with declawing making the cat an object. About 20 years ago, that would have made me 14, my elderly grandmother had a cat named Nikki. For some reason he played very roughly. Despite having free run of a large home and a cat tree, scratching posts, and a 3 season porch to watch birds he would still playfully claw the holy heck out of my grandmother. She loved that cat dearly. Being an 80 year old lady her skin tore and bruised very easily. Instead of putting him down or dumping at the shelter she had him declawed. Nikki lived to be 16, and grandma lived to 98. He was her companion and gave her a sense of purpose. Nikki was never an object to grandma. It would be an insult to even infer that he was.
I am not speaking of randomly lopping off toes for the heck of it. If it saves a life or keeps a cat in a forever home it is done with a purpose. Cats live in the moment. Whatever pain they experience from any sort of surgery is soon forgotten.
Nope, humans don't randomly amputate digits. They do however cut the foreskin from baby boys with no anesthetic and pierce baby's ears.
I am not going to further derail the thread with my thoughts. Being in rescue and volunteering at a shelter I just have a different viewpoint.
Good luck to the OP no matter what you decide.

I would make sure to explain to them things they can do as alternatives to declawing.
Heck I have 7 cats with claws here and all my furniture is intact (well, except for the fake leather gaming chair I had in room where the litter of 7 kittens stayed when they were babies...)
I make sure to have different scratching surfaces for them to use (cardboard, sisal, carpet) and keep their nails trimmed.

I have to agree with Otto about the spaying being compared to declawing. The spaying is done in order to avoid having more poor cats that roam around homeless and hungry pro-creating. I have been to many countries where it has broken my heart to see all the poor cats that are in that situation and have been fighting and thin, it's awful. At least spaying is an attempt to avoid that. The declawing just makes my blood boil, especially when someone says something like 'yes, but the cat was ruining my love seat' . In the U.K where I am its completely against the law, thank goodness and I doubt that many would do it due to ethical and moral reasons anyway, I hope.
I can of course see your point, that if you refuse would the cats then be put to sleep but if at all possible, could you hang on just a little bit longer in case someone else comes along that wouldn't have that done? Maye they are unaware of the issues regarding the torture process of declawing and maybe they would care but I don't know if I would be able to trust them not to. I just can't see why people don't just get a different type of pet if they have an issue with the claws. If I didn't like toes for instance, I wouldn't send my boyfriend to the doctor to have them ripped off or lasered off. Sorry, I just find this process so barbaric and surrounded by ignorance.
It's great that you came on here for advice about it too. I really hope poor kitty keeps his claws too.

Just FYI, this discussion of neutering vs declawing was held several months ago. I created a comparison list:

Declaw Surgery

Health Benefits of Declaw Surgery
None

Health Risks of Declaw Surgery
Lameness/Arthritis
Claw regrowth
Infection

Behavior Benefits of Declaw Surgery
Cats can no longer scratch humans or damage walls, furniture or accessories

Behavior Risks of Declaw Surgery
Litter box avoidance
Increased aggression (biting)

Other Risks/Benefits of Declaw Surgery

Other benefits: None.

Other risks: It should be noted that in a study published in JAVMA (referenced before), cats subject to declaw were at increased risk for relinquishment to a shelter for behavior problems (54%) vs. non-declawed cats (29%).

Alternatives to Declawing
Training
Nail caps

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Spay/Neuter Surgery

Health Benefits of Neutering
Decreased risk of tumors
Decreased risk of pyometra
Decreased risk of several types of cancer
Decreased risk of communicable diseases, including FIV, FeLV and FIP due to decrease in aggression due to lack of sex drive and territoriality
Decreased risk of wounds/wound abscesses & etc.

Health Risks of Neutering
Infection
I'd be happy to include increased incidence of UTIs if you can provide reference to a study published in a peer-review journal
Obesity although important to note the problem is not a change in metabolism, so it can be controlled by cat guardians

Behavior Benefits of Neutering
Decreased aggression
Decreased territoriality/decreased roaming (and thus most stop spraying to mark territory)
Cats stop yowling when in heat or when hormones push them to want a female

Behavior Risks of Neutering
Are there any?

Other Risks/Benefits of Neutering

Other Risks: None

Other Benefits: Inability to procreate lowers unintended breeding, resulting in lowered homeless cat population, which in turn results in lower costs of sheltering, euthanization, and animal control.

Alternative to Neutering
None

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Just a question to start a discussion if I may.

The problems with declawing are from studies as reported in the Journal of the American Veterinary Association - not opinions.

Both surgeries present risk, yes. But when it comes to weighing risks vs benefits, there is just no comparison.


Lizita - I hope the reaction of the potential adopters was just one of undereducation.

Originally Posted by mrblanche

You know, I'm going to go contrary to the crowd here, to some extent. I'd find out why they want to declaw the cat, but considering you're talking about a black cat with some adoption problems, I would say a declawed cat in a happy home with caring parents, good food, a warm place to sleep, all are better than living his life in a cage or being put to sleep in a shelter or living his life on the street. I know those are not in his future currently, but things change, and to quote a number of politicians in the last week, "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good."

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I know where you're coming from, but I also understand the trepidation of this rescue to hand this kitty over only to have him go through the terrible ordeal of declawing. Boy, talk about rock-hard place!!! I understand that some people declaw...I won't condemn those who do, I guess? I'd have a hard time handing over a kitten knowing it will be declawed..I'd try to talk them out of it; not sure I could hand the kitten over either. I am against it and would NEVER declaw a cat of my own. I wonder if there are other reasons the cat is low on the adoptable scale? He sounds really cute! Is it the color? MrBlanche...I just want to add one thing--please don't use the word "parents"...in place of "owners"....this just feeds the animal rights philosophy...... thanks and I don't mean any offense...it just grates the nerves when animals are called "kids" and owners are called "parents"....sorry

Originally Posted by killerapple

I vote asking why they think it's necessary, then polite education, and showing that the cat does use his scratching post and how easy it is to trim his claws. Then if they still are firm on declawing.... I don't know what I would do.

When we got our kitten this year, there were many folks (usually older) that were like 'so you getting him declawed when neutered?' and they were in SHOCK that we said no. And they were in shock he hasn't destroyed furniture... and that we're not covered in scratches. And they now know that you don't need to declaw a cat. I think there's assumptions "it has to be done!! OMG the furniture! the kids!" and then when people realize ... "your cat seriously has claws? I can't tell at all!!!" it makes them think different. (That said, it's usually people who don't actually have cats that are shocked they are not declawed... or people who don't know that it is amputation!!!!) It's just interesting... I don't know how declawing got ingrained in heads as this necessity decades ago... but I think that's part of the problem.

Good luck with this.

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Let me just say YIKES!!!!!!!!! Unbelievable to me too!!!!! I've had cats since I was three years old Never, never, ever, EVER did my family have cats declawed!!!!! Granted these were indoor/outdoor cats back in the day, but really my family all are very much animal lovers and not at all prissy/picky about material items, but it was never really a problem. To me declaw is a WEIRD exception, NEVER the rule............funny how different people's perspectives can be, eh?

Originally Posted by BoomerKitty

I am sure there can be complications as there can be with every surgery. I am not offended by your point of view, as this is a passionate subject. However, I feel that organ removal is every bit as risky if not more so than as amputation. While the reasons for them may be different the danger of dying under anesthesia is the same. I could also argue that if people were responsible pet owners then spaying wouldn't be necessary.
I own both spayed and intact dogs. None of the intact animals are allowed to mindlessly procreate.
I digress. To me what this boils down to is if declaw = forever home as opposed to being warehoused or euth'd then I would vote for declaw. There's no shortage of cats anywhere.

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I have to agree! And, I find it hard to exactly say that s/n benefits the HEALTH of the animal; that's just hard to swallow...in that it makes certain cancers impossible, sure... but studies have shown otherwise..there are many more negatives (healthwise) to s/n than positive. But won't open a whole can of worms My kitty is spayed and two of my dogs are altered and I'm fine with that. As long as it continues to be a choice I'll be happy. On the other hand I am against declaw. Oh so many grey areas!

Originally Posted by mrblanche

You know, I'm going to go contrary to the crowd here, to some extent. I'd find out why they want to declaw the cat, but considering you're talking about a black cat with some adoption problems, I would say a declawed cat in a happy home with caring parents, good food, a warm place to sleep, all are better than living his life in a cage or being put to sleep in a shelter or living his life on the street. I know those are not in his future currently, but things change, and to quote a number of politicians in the last week, "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good."

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Im sorry as well, but i have to agree. In California they have banned declawing. I remember going up there and meeting a whole bunch of people and talking about my rescue experiences and why i have so many pets etc. So many of them have said they used to resuce cats as well but now that declawing is banned they cant anymore... in just that two weeks i was there i learned that at least 10 cats could have been adopted but were not. I remember being really sad about that.

I am totally against declawing, totally... and i will always try and educate people and change their minds but... if i had a choice to be in prison all my life, or get killed, or live in a happy home without fingers (as brutal as that sounds) id rather lose my fingers.

Its a hard choice, unfortunatly for some kitties they cant always get 100% in life, its sad, but true.

Also, i call my kitties my kids and im their parents. I find if you refer to them this way it humanizes them more to others.

Im sorry if others dont agree and i am in no way defending declawing... at all... i am defending the life of cats that unfortunatly, most rescues have no choice but to see hard parts of life.

Originally Posted by BaloneysMom

Im sorry as well, but i have to agree. In California they have banned declawing. I remember going up there and meeting a whole bunch of people and talking about my rescue experiences and why i have so many pets etc. So many of them have said they used to resuce cats as well but now that declawing is banned they cant anymore... in just that two weeks i was there i learned that at least 10 cats could have been adopted but were not. I remember being really sad about that.

I am totally against declawing, totally... and i will always try and educate people and change their minds but... if i had a choice to be in prison all my life, or get killed, or live in a happy home without fingers (as brutal as that sounds) id rather lose my fingers.

Its a hard choice, unfortunatly for some kitties they cant always get 100% in life, its sad, but true.

Also, i call my kitties my kids and im their parents. I find if you refer to them this way it humanizes them more to others.

Im sorry if others dont agree and i am in no way defending declawing... at all... i am defending the life of cats that unfortunatly, most rescues have no choice but to see hard parts of life.

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Agree with everything except the parent/kid speak.....why do we WANT to HUMANIZE them? I don't.

Originally Posted by Allmycats

Agree with everything except the parent/kid speak.....why do we WANT to HUMANIZE them? I don't.

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People treat things better if they are humanized. Its why some shelters and vets (at least where i am from) recommend giving your pets people names. It may not be true, ive never researched it before so i can be wrong, its just what ive heard.

Originally Posted by Allmycats

I have to agree! And, I find it hard to exactly say that s/n benefits the HEALTH of the animal; that's just hard to swallow...in that it makes certain cancers impossible, sure... but studies have shown otherwise..there are many more negatives (healthwise) to s/n than positive. But won't open a whole can of worms

My kitty is spayed and two of my dogs are altered and I'm fine with that. As long as it continues to be a choice I'll be happy. On the other hand I am against declaw. Oh so many grey areas!

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Where on earth did you ever come up with such an idea as that?

Aside from the "risk" of surgery there are no negatives at all to spaying and neutering. The health benefits, of preventing cancers, (both male and female) pyometra (for females) and pregnancy alone are huge. The emotional benefits, removing the sexual urges which are biological not mental, but create mental frustrations, are also huge.

26 or more civilized countries around the world manage just fine with out mutilating their cats in this way. It's coming in the USA, I hope it's soon.

I agree with mrblanche and I'd much rather that a cat lives in a good home declawed than in a shelter, but we are talking your rescue here, not the local pound where they euthanize due to overcrowding..
If this was the humane society or a kill shelter, I'd definitely adopt the kitten- but given the circumstances I vote no.

Cats CAN be declawed without cutting the pad in half. That's what I saw recently with a laser. Yeah, it's about a $300 procedure but it doesn't damage toes.

"With cosmetic declawing, you use a tiny curved blade to go in and dissect out the claw and the tiny piece of bone. The pad is intact; all the soft tissue is there. So the cat is walking comfortably very quickly because its pads are fine."

When it comes to finding a home or a cat dying I would choose declaw. It is a last resort. I feel that the choice should be there though.

Originally Posted by BoomerKitty

Cats CAN be declawed without cutting the pad in half. That's what I saw recently with a laser. Yeah, it's about a $300 procedure but it doesn't damage toes.

"With cosmetic declawing, you use a tiny curved blade to go in and dissect out the claw and the tiny piece of bone. The pad is intact; all the soft tissue is there. So the cat is walking comfortably very quickly because its pads are fine."

When it comes to finding a home or a cat dying I would choose declaw. It is a last resort. I feel that the choice should be there though.

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I'm sorry you feel that way.

Don't be sorry. When you work at a shelter and see the body piles in the bin from all the euthanasia finding a good home takes priority over retaining claws.