TheCatSite.com › Forums › General Forums › IMO: In My Opinion › Obama. PC and the holidays
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Obama. PC and the holidays

post #1 of 125
12/14/09 at 7:21am
Thread Starter 
Obama has renamed the National Christmas Tree. It is now the National HOLIDAY Tree. So I saw video of Rahm Emanuel lighting the National Menorah this morning. Why isn't it renamed the National CANDLEABRA?
Reply
post #2 of 125
12/14/09 at 8:05am
Several different cultures use the tree as winter or new year holiday symbolism, but this isn't the case with the menorah. I'm sure if others wanted to officially adopt it, an inclusive name wouldn't be any problem.
Reply
post #3 of 125
12/14/09 at 8:15am
Thread Starter 
Historically it's always been the National CHRISTMAS tree. Christmas is a NATIONAL HOLIDAY. It has always been part of our AMERICAN culture. Let's not mess with it. Why is it that only OTHER COUNTRIES are allowed their culture, but our American Culture and history is always under attack?
Reply
post #4 of 125
12/14/09 at 8:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty's Mom View Post
Historically it's always been the National CHRISTMAS tree. Christmas is a NATIONAL HOLIDAY. It has always been part of our AMERICAN culture. Let's not mess with it. Why is it that only OTHER COUNTRIES are allowed their culture, but our American Culture and history is always under attack?
No it isn't. All one day of Christmas is a Federally recognized public Holiday. There aren't any "National Holidays". And it hasn't "always" been part of our American Culture. The tree...in fact, Christmas itself, was outlawed in several places for many years because of it's pagan symbolism. The Puritans outlawed it because they felt it was "too Catholic". George Washington held it in such low regard that he attacked a camp of Hessian mercenaries on Christmas day.
Reply
post #5 of 125
12/14/09 at 8:56am
I actually have to agree with DM on this one. It's December 14, 2009 if you want to write that event down on your calendar.

It's a Christmas tree. Calling it something else is really disingenuous.
Reply
post #6 of 125
12/14/09 at 9:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grogs View Post
I actually have to agree with DM on this one. It's December 14, 2009 if you want to write that event down on your calendar.

It's a Christmas tree. Calling it something else is really disingenuous.
And every citizen that wishes to see it as a Christmas tree is free to call it that. It can also be called a New Year tree by those that see it as one, and a Hanukkah bush by those that see it as one, etc. The government, however, has an obligation to be all inclusive, and that is exactly what they're doing.

So, is anyone going to officially make the menorah part of their festival, so we can get started on that name change thing?
Reply
post #7 of 125
12/14/09 at 9:36am
The name of the game is to be "inclusive" of all but Christians.

Don't get upset people, remember the scripture, "blessed are the persecuted".

I find it very interesting that as our country becomes more and more secular and more and more people are non-believers, the traditional values of this country are slowly vanishing.
Reply
post #8 of 125
12/14/09 at 9:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
The name of the game is to be "inclusive" of all but Christians.

Don't get upset people, remember the scripture, "blessed are the persecuted".

I find it very interesting that as our country becomes more and more secular and more and more people are non-believers, the traditional values of this country are slowly vanishing.
What a funny statement. How does "Holiday Tree" leave christians out?

So, how are they going to incorporate the Menorah into Christmas and make it a candleabrah?
Reply
post #9 of 125
12/14/09 at 10:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
So, how are they going to incorporate the Menorah into Christmas and make it a candelabra?
Use Jewish cookie cutters and salt dough to make Christmas tree ornaments. That's what my (Christian) sister and her (Jewish) husband did their first Christmas together. They also sent "Have a Kosher Christmas" cards. Their daughter celebrates Hanukkah and Christmas.

The "Christmas tree" is a result of cultural/religious fusion, so why not?
Reply
post #10 of 125
12/14/09 at 2:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat View Post
Use Jewish cookie cutters and salt dough to make Christmas tree ornaments. That's what my (Christian) sister and her (Jewish) husband did their first Christmas together. They also sent "Have a Kosher Christmas" cards. Their daughter celebrates Hanukkah and Christmas.

The "Christmas tree" is a result of cultural/religious fusion, so why not?
Ah, that's excellent. So, anyone that wants to call it a Christmas candelabra is perfectly welcome too. That settles everything.
Reply
post #11 of 125
12/14/09 at 6:28pm
We have mini menorahs on our Christmas tree at work

As far as I am concerned, you want a Christmas holiday, you have a Christmas Tree
Reply
post #12 of 125
12/14/09 at 6:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty's Mom View Post
Historically it's always been the National CHRISTMAS tree. Christmas is a NATIONAL HOLIDAY. It has always been part of our AMERICAN culture. Let's not mess with it. Why is it that only OTHER COUNTRIES are allowed their culture, but our American Culture and history is always under attack?
Yeah!!! I'd like to know that too! ARGH!!!!
Reply
post #13 of 125
12/14/09 at 7:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty's Mom View Post
Historically it's always been the National CHRISTMAS tree. Christmas is a NATIONAL HOLIDAY. It has always been part of our AMERICAN culture. Let's not mess with it. Why is it that only OTHER COUNTRIES are allowed their culture, but our American Culture and history is always under attack?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allmycats View Post
Yeah!!! I'd like to know that too! ARGH!!!!
Just for the sake of mental exercise, let's clarify, ok.

Does the above indicate that you feel that anyone that doesn't celebrate Christmas is from another country? Does it indicate that you feel that anyone that doesn't celebrate Christmas in un-American? And finally, under attack by whom, and how?
Reply
post #14 of 125
12/14/09 at 7:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
Just for the sake of mental exercise, let's clarify, ok.

Does the above indicate that you feel that anyone that doesn't celebrate Christmas is from another country? Does it indicate that you feel that anyone that doesn't celebrate Christmas in un-American? And finally, under attack by whom, and how?
Skippy, sometimes you just, feel the way you feel. Get it?
Reply
post #15 of 125
12/14/09 at 9:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Skippy, sometimes you just, feel the way you feel. Get it?
Ah, I understand. So, there was no basis nor explanation for any of those statements. Got it.
Reply
post #16 of 125
12/15/09 at 5:40am
Thread Starter 
It isn't about equality. There is a war being waged by the secular majority against the religious majority to eliminate "Christmas." I just find it interesting that the same anti-religion view does not seem to cross over to other religions. Seems hypocritical to me that the Christmas tree has been changed to a holiday tree, yet the menorah remains a menorah.

Fortunately this craziness has not yet affected my granddaughter's public school. They still acknowledge Christmas!
Reply
post #17 of 125
12/15/09 at 6:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty's Mom View Post
It isn't about equality. There is a war being waged by the secular majority against the religious majority to eliminate "Christmas." I just find it interesting that the same anti-religion view does not seem to cross over to other religions. Seems hypocritical to me that the Christmas tree has been changed to a holiday tree, yet the menorah remains a menorah.

Fortunately this craziness has not yet affected my granddaughter's public school. They still acknowledge Christmas!
That's quite the fable, actually. There is no need to eliminate Christmas, it's already secular. The courts have made that clear. And when good ole' US Grant made it a Federal holiday, it was for the benefit and at the bidding of the banking industry. If Christmas has to have government endorsement to be a holiday, then it certainly isn't much of one.

The Menorah will always be a menorah, regardless of what it is used for. Menorah is Hebrew for "lamp". The tree will always be a tree, regardless of what it is used for. Tree is English for "Tree". If you want to hang menorah cookies on your tree, go right ahead. If you want to use it as a pretty candle stick for your mantle, that's fine too, they're still used for lighting quite a bit. If you want to call it a Christmas menorah, no one is going to stop you.

But the fact that a mere hundred or so years ago US Christians decided to use the pagan symbolism hundreds of years old for their holiday, and now insist that the very people that originated it have no right to it, is the very height of arrogance and intolerance.
Reply
post #18 of 125
12/15/09 at 6:39am
Thread Starter 
Merry Christmas to you.
Reply
post #19 of 125
12/15/09 at 6:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty's Mom View Post
Merry Christmas to you.
Why thank you. When it actually IS Christmas, I'll happily wish the same to you.
Reply
post #20 of 125
12/15/09 at 8:09am
If Christmas is secular, why all the huba-baloo to remove the word and replace it with Holiday? Why, if it's secular, are some people offended by being wished a Merry Christmas? (I understand the reference is with regards to our government's stance on the holiday, and this is what I'm addressing.)

I'd really like to know. I'm not trying to be argumentative.

I guess the way I see it is this: If it's secular to our nation, let's treat it that way. If it's religious to our nation, treat it that way.
Reply
post #21 of 125
12/15/09 at 8:35am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by emrldsky View Post
If Christmas is secular, why all the huba-baloo to remove the word and replace it with Holiday? Why, if it's secular, are some people offended by being wished a Merry Christmas? (I understand the reference is with regards to our government's stance on the holiday, and this is what I'm addressing.)

I'd really like to know. I'm not trying to be argumentative.

I guess the way I see it is this: If it's secular to our nation, let's treat it that way. If it's religious to our nation, treat it that way.
I have a problem with a certain segment of our society that wants to remove the word "Christmas" from common usage. Political correctness has run amok.
Reply
post #22 of 125
12/15/09 at 9:14am
If it's become secular, it's because the religious significance has been obscured by the consumption aspect. Like Kinky Friedman sang, it wasn't the Jews who killed Jesus, it was Santa Claus. That is not however controlled by government, it is a matter of materialism.

If we're going to allow the Christians to have one of their holidays be a federal holiday, that is tantamount to saying that we have a nationally recognized religion. An alternative would be to allow all other religions to have one of their holidays also be a federal holiday. Why should Christians get special treatment?
Reply
post #23 of 125
12/15/09 at 9:29am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogmom View Post
If it's become secular, it's because the religious significance has been obscured by the consumption aspect. Like Kinky Friedman sang, it wasn't the Jews who killed Jesus, it was Santa Claus. That is not however controlled by government, it is a matter of materialism.

If we're going to allow the Christians to have one of their holidays be a federal holiday, that is tantamount to saying that we have a nationally recognized religion. An alternative would be to allow all other religions to have one of their holidays also be a federal holiday. Why should Christians get special treatment?
Christians don't get special treatment. Christmas is an AMERICAN holiday, as is Thanksgiving and the 4th of July. Christians ascribe a religious significance, but it is celebrated as a national tradition and only has religious significance to those who believe in Christianity, which is certainly not all Americans.
Reply
post #24 of 125
12/15/09 at 9:40am
Christmas is an American holiday??? uh-oh, guess we better tell all the Christians across the world to stop celebrating it

Tree is English for Tree!!! Mike I laughed out loud at that one!!
Reply
post #25 of 125
12/15/09 at 9:44am
If Christmas is an American holiday, why is it that none of my jewish nor muslim friends celebrate it and they are all Americans? I am sure some muslim or jewish americans will be offended if you call Christmas an American holiday.
Reply
post #26 of 125
12/15/09 at 9:53am
Christmas is an American holiday? Well, you learn something new every day.
Reply
post #27 of 125
12/15/09 at 10:07am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moz View Post
Christmas is an American holiday? Well, you learn something new every day.
Of course it is. That is not meant to exclude other countries that also celebrate it. Yes, it has become an American tradition, also shared by most of Europe and South America. Each country puts their own special spin on it regarding practice and belief and tradition, but it is probably the most celebrated common holiday among nations.
Reply
post #28 of 125
12/15/09 at 10:08am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
If Christmas is an American holiday, why is it that none of my jewish nor muslim friends celebrate it and they are all Americans? I am sure some muslim or jewish americans will be offended if you call Christmas an American holiday.
I have met muslim and jewish people who also celebrate it as a secular tradition. Nothing wrong with that!
Reply
post #29 of 125
12/15/09 at 10:17am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemae1277 View Post
Christmas is an American holiday??? uh-oh, guess we better tell all the Christians across the world to stop celebrating it

Tree is English for Tree!!! Mike I laughed out loud at that one!!
Now you are being silly! Christmas is the most universally celebrated holiday throughout most of Europe and both America's (South & North).

To be offended at it being called "Christmas" and celebrated around the world, is just looking for an excuse to be offended at something........anything.
Reply
post #30 of 125
12/15/09 at 10:18am
Actually when I lived in Germany, I got to hear about how they found the way Americans celebrated Christmas so utterly tacky. Between the nodding reindeer and blowup snowmen on people's lawns and gaudy lighting on the trees (instead of candles) I think most of them feel that Christmas originated with them, and we turned it into a tasteless celebration of the gimme gimme spirit.
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: IMO: In My Opinion
TheCatSite.com › Forums › General Forums › IMO: In My Opinion › Obama. PC and the holidays