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Running out of clean spots...

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
Hi all you kittylovers. I'm brand-new to this forum, and was really hoping to find a place like this. My human family numbers seven, and our cat family three. Simba and Nala are brother and sister who we adopted as 4-month-old, off-the-street kittens about two years ago. Star we couldn't resist adopting several months back when we saw her at a HS satellite at a local pet store -- she was about 13 months old then, and had already been weaned of a litter of 5 kittens she's had on the street. We have a couple of young boys in our home, and three very caring older girls, and the kitties have always had places to take refuge from the sometimes rambunctious boys.

Nala has always had litter issues. We didn't realize how bad (she'd peed on the couch a few times, and the occasional basket of clean laundry, thank goodness for OxyClean). But a few months ago I finally got to my spring cleaning and discovered so many areas she had been hitting that it's probably clear she was rarely peeing in her box. The vet checked her out, and she's fine. She got better (not perfect) when we started keeping her box scrupulously clean. But then we fell in love and adopted Star.

Star is younger and smaller, but seems to be a more dominant personality. As it happens she is also far friendlier than either Simba or Nala who have always been a little skittish. When Star came home we followed the Humane Societie's basic rules on introducing a new cat, and there was some suspicion among the cats, but no fighting; but Nala went back to not using the box to pee at all, even though Star was supplied with her own seperate box.

I found a Humane Society website that talked about intensive litter re-training, and re-introducing a cat to the household, and Nala is currently quarantined in a spare bathroom. She gets multiple daily visits and brief monitered time free in the house, but the rest of the time she's lonely; and still tends to soil any soft item - such as bedding - that we place with her. My fear is that she just doesn't have the temperament to live in a house with other cats -- even her own brother -- and young kids; but I'm afraid to "take her back" to the Humane Society. Who would want to adopt her. I could start taking the steps to re-introduce her to the house, but I spent months finding and cleaning dozens of places she had discovered to soil, and I can't handle that on top of family and caring for my "good" pets.

I would love to talk to someone with a similar story who has some advice and encouragement. I might like even more to find a home with someone without small children, who might have the time and patience to work with Nala. She's a very sweet cat, one-on-one, and a lovely tortoise-shell.

Can anyone help us?
post #2 of 13
Welcome to TCS!

I myself have a couple of kitties who are "sensitive souls" & have litterbox issues.

When you say Nala was vet checked, was her urine ever specifically tested for a UTI? I have had cats who have tested negative for a UTI, & 2 weeks later are peeing nothing but blood - so if they are repeat offenders, even if they have a negative UTI test, I re-test a few weeks after the first test.

You can try things like Cat Attract litter, re-introductions, & Feliway spray.
post #3 of 13
Thread Starter 
I tried a Feliway diffuser to try to help Nala and the new girl (Star), but it really seemed to frighten the cats... maybe they sent me the wrong formula...lol.

The vet was quite certain it wasn't a UTI, and she never exhibited any other symptoms. My hubby didn't want to spring for the $300+ for the culture test. And Nala's issues seem to follow a certain pattern. Basically when anything upsets her little world we get to throw away another pair of shoes, or have another area of carpet destroyed

I know that introducing Star was hard on Nala, but if comes down to a choice between the two then Star is just the nicer, calmer and easier cat. I hate to be this way, but we're just not in a situation right now where we can adjust our lives around a "problem" cat. Unless I can start finding new homes for toddlers...
post #4 of 13
I have a cat, Cinders, who has always had this problem. My mother in the UK had her for 8 years and she peed on all the carpets, the sofas, the stairs, and the beds. Vets, behaviourists, Cambridge University Animal Hospital all failed to find a cause or cure her. Originally she was a stray, adopted through a refuge, and we always wonder if she was dumped because of this problem. Eventually she got too much for my mother and I took her, hoping to retrain her.

I did all the recommended things, including keeping her in my bedroom, where she lived for 8 months, peeing every time she so much as saw another cat. Or sometimes she would pee in my bed when I was in it! Again, no one here in France had any answers.

In desperation I put her in my bathroom, very light and quite large, where everything is tiled and easy to clean. She has a basket and covered litter box, and after a few weeks with no peein, I dared put down a couple of bath mats. Still no peeing, and she is eating well and purrs whenever I go to see her. A few weeks ago Bonaparte got in there overnight and I was amazed in the morning to realise there was no pee and no fight. So now I let him in there every night, so she has company, and it seems to be working well.

BUT, a few days ago she got out of the bathroom and into my bedroom next door. I put her back, thinking all was well, but at night I found she had peed on my pillow. So her behaviour has not changed, but she seems to like the environment of the bathroom. I am resigned to keeping her there, where she is no bother and as happy as I can make her. Obviously I would not give her up.

What I am saying is that I think there are some cats, for whatever reason, who will always have a problem, a need to mark territory, who pee when scared or upset, whatever, and we have to live with it if we can. This is no reassurance for you, but the way it is. Cinders cost my mother thousands of pounds in carpets and furniture and vet bills, to no avail.Good luck, if you find an answer, please share it!
post #5 of 13
Lol, rehoming toddlers!

Seti is the same way. I'm constantly watching for urine in strange places, like the dining room table. I got Seti his own automatic box. Technically, it was supposed to be for all the cats but he's pretty much the only one that uses it. An auto box keeps the litter even cleaner than a regular box. For one thing, it scoops immediately. For another the litter just lasts longer. MUCH longer. That seems to keep Seti happy. Maybe an auto box would help Nala.

Another thing I have to watch with Seti is the box itself. About every two weeks I clean the inside and outside of his box with vinegar to remove any lingering odors. If I don't it doesn't matter that the box is scooped and the litter is clean. He'll still go looking for a new spot if the box smells. It seems he's hyper sensitive about cleanliness.

You'll also need to hunt down and clean the spots where Nala has peed to remove any odors she can smell. Again, I use vinegar for this because it works and it's inexpensive but people on the boards have all kinds of favorites. Go room by room and be thorough to get it all. I even put vinegar in my carpet shampooer and run it that way just to hit everything. Just check for colorfastness, etc. Since she's in the bathroom for now you'll be able to take your time with this step which is helpful because I know from experience that it can be stressful.

As far as methods of calming cats down goes, I've only ever used Feliway and with great success but I've heard other people say it upsets their cats. There are other things to try such as Rescue Remedy but I've not used those myself so hopefully someone else will come along and explain those things.

I'm thinking that maybe what Nala needs instead of a new home is just a special place in your house where she knows she can go to feel safe? It sounds like you've got a fun and busy household. Maybe you could make a place in a closet or a laundry room where she could go and the rules could be that no one pets her or plays with her when she goes there? That might help her relax some.
post #6 of 13
In my opinion Nala needs to have the urine culture done. Retraining, or any kind of behavior modification, is not going to be successful if she has a urinary tract problem, such as stones, or crystals, struvite or oxalate, or both.

A vet cannot be "certain" there is nothing in the urine with out the culture, that is why there are cultures.

But, the fact that she avoids the litter box even in her retraining isolation room tells me that there is something physically wrong. Crystals or stones will not go away without treatment and special diet.

Whatever the cost, it can't be more than constant cleaning. And if she has crystals in her urine she is in pain. Which is why she pees on soft things and avoids the box.

Nala blames the box for her pain, and pees on soft things in the hopes it won't hurt.
post #7 of 13
After the urine culture has been done, you might ask your vet about medication. Amitriptyline has been very successful in controlling anxiety in kitties with these kind of behavior problems.

As for the feliway I'm not sure what you mean by they were afraid of it. It's a plug in, you plug it in and that's it. It doesn't make noise or odor. And they can be effective in reducing feline stress in a household, as long as you have enough to cover the entire area.

By the way, oxyclean will not remove urine odor enough to prevent repeat visits to that spot. You need an enzyme cleaner, which will break down the bacteria in the urine. Even if you can't smell it, the cats can. A black light will show you the soiled areas, and they have to be saturated with a special cleaner.
post #8 of 13
i thought my kitten had a UTI also...but then someone suggested Dr Elsey's Kitten attract litter. Let me tell you it works. My little guy started out peeing on the floor and trying to pee on my bed ..i had 3 litter boxes in the house. Since the day I bought that kitten attract litter...he always uses the box and i have to also say i now only have one box in the house. YAY... I praise the person who came up with it. Good luck to you and your kitty
post #9 of 13
Thread Starter 
Oxyclean and soaking has worked well on my washables. I have enzyme cleaners for the other areas. If it comes down to having to spend a lot of extra time and money on this baby then it's not going to work for us -- we have five kids who still have to be my first priority!

Around the Feliway "calming" plug-in, the kitties would start acting paranoid, and were more prone to conflict in those areas.

My husband will not spring for the $360+ uti culture. But in the vets opinion with external palpitation it's not a uti. She doesn't cry or show discomfort when she's lifted by her abdomen; also, her urinary problems tend to spike with situational stress: our going on vacation, the introduction of a new cat.

I really wish we could find a loving and understanding new home for Nala, since I'm pretty sure if we took her back to the shelter she wouldn't be adopted. We just don't have the spare cycles to keep up with an overly-sensitive cat.

That said we're trying the "Cat Attract" stuff, which I hadn't heard of before. Thanks for all the advice
post #10 of 13
This may be a long shot - but is there another vet who will test her urine to ensure she doesn't have a UTI without charging an arm & a leg. I can get a urinalysis done (in house at the vet clinic) for just under $20!

The reason I am pushing testing her urine is that I have had cats that do not act at all off, just urinate where they shouldn't, that test positive for a UTI. They exhibit no physical symptoms at all when their bladder is palpated, etc.
post #11 of 13
With all due respect to your Vet, I have to question any kind of so-called Vet who doesn't at least do a routine urinalysis and claims he can tell it's not a UTI just by palpation. The # 1 rule is....in a cat with urinary issues, you gotta start out by ruling out any kind of medical cause: UTI, interstitial cystitis, crystals. If these are ruled out, then you consider the problem to be behavior or stress related.

I live in Canada in an area where Vet charges are exorbitant (eg: $1000 for a basic feline dental)....but $360+ for a urinalysis and culture seems way off. Have you tried calling around to other clinics? At LEAST start off with a basis urinalysis; this could at least show the presence of crystals.

While your hubby may not want to fork out the $$, I hope he considers the anquish your kitty must be in....plus it can't be cheap to constantly be cleaning and washing things.

I agree with someone else who suggested that cats who experience pain related to peeing or pooping will begin to "associate" this pain with use of the litterbox...because that's initially where they experience the pain (when using the box). Due to this association, they then turn to other areas (like soft areas you mention).

Please -- for the health and wellbeing of your dear kitty, get proper urine testing and culture done; your kitty is counting on you.
post #12 of 13
I am going to be rather blunt here. Pets are for life, not to be gotten rid of when they have an illness or other problem.

Do you really want to be teaching your five children that animals are disposable objects, loved and enjoyed until they become inconvenient or need expensive treatment?

NO vet can tell by external palpitation whether a cat has a urinary tract infection, crystals and/or bladder or kidney stones. Urinalysis. urine culture and x ray are how these issues are diagnosed. Blood work would not be out of line either.

Pets cost money. Will you get rid of the other cats too, if they get sick?
post #13 of 13
Thread Starter 
I understand your bluntness, pre-kid I absolutely would have put the kitties first. Now I need to teach my kids that kitties are our pets, and if they are putting the health and safety of my children at risk I need to have realistic priorities. We're trying very hard not to have to make the "difficult" decision. I've been wracking my brain for months for a solution to this problem. With five kids, honestly, it's all I can do to keep up with their messes. I can't have a cat who does $$$K damage; but am willing to do what I can to the point where I can't anymore. At the end of the day it IS just a pet. I've lost beloved cats in my life and have been devastated -- I can still tear up at my Ginger who was killed by a car 30+ years ago. But I've lost a young brother since then, and there's no comparison. My babies simply have to come first...

That said, I'll push for the urinalysis again. My latest thought is to build (rather than buy) a "litter house" like they have in the catalogs... something I can use to put a second litter box in a spot where Nala has offended a lot. I want to use the Dr. Elisey's cat attract stuff. I'm also looking for a recommendation for an automatic litter box. The vet recommends them for multiple-cat homes, I just want to know the best, easiest, most-reliable one that people have tried. I guess my Christmas money this year is going to Nala...

...who in the meantime has "stuccoed" a recently-remodelled guest bath -- every available inch -- since she likes to spill her water dish (we've tried big casserole dishes, dishes weighted with rocks, non-skid mats...ha-ha) and then walks through her litter with wet feet. Stucco is big in our area. We could make money on her if she can get her contractor's license...
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