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Nationwide death sentence for being gay

post #1 of 59
12/1/09 at 7:28pm
Thread Starter 
U.S. evangelicals, pushing for passage of a law making being gay a capital offence in Uganda. AND, doing so using exactly the same "false witness" and propoganda campaign they've used in the states. Why am I not the least bit surprised. Disgusted at such slimey tactics and pathetic people, but not surprised.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...ntence-gay-sex

Quote:
The main speakers were three US evangelists: Scott Lively, Don Schmierer and Caleb Lee Brundidge. Lively is a noted anti-gay activist and president of Defend the Family International, a conservative Christian association, while Schmierer is an author who works with "homosexual recovery groups". Brundidge is a "sexual reorientation coach" at the International Healing Foundation.
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post #2 of 59
12/1/09 at 8:00pm
Live and let live folks...

Even if you don't agree with or choose to be a part of that lifestyle, sentencing people to death for something that is probably beyond their choice is not good. Not good for the human race at all.

It's not like murdering someone else. Who does being gay hurt?
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post #3 of 59
12/2/09 at 8:10am
Wow.

What's next? Murdering people for being ugly? Overweight? Stupid? Boring? Where does it end?
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post #4 of 59
12/2/09 at 11:11am
This upsets me. My younger brother is gay. When he told me he was, I was upset. Only because I know how people can be. I was afraid he would get beat up or even killed because of who he wants to be with. I actually know someone who was gay, was in a bar, being taunted because of his lifestyle, and when he left to walk home, was killed by a hit-and-run driver. He was killed by someone who left the bar in their car, and followed him, ran him over and killed him because he was gay.

As I already said, when my brother told me he was gay, I WAS happy for him, but at the same time was also very upset because I know what can happen to someone who is gay.

I don't see what the big deal is about it anyway. Why do people have to worry about what other people choose? If a guy likes guys then so what? It makes me mad how most gay hate crimes are commited against men, because its considered disgusting for a man to be intimate with another man. But most don't say anything about lesbians, as sometimes it is considered "hot" for women to sleep together.
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post #5 of 59
12/2/09 at 2:09pm
Nice. Very Christian of them. What is wrong with people? How can someone be that evil and not understand the ultimate, irreversible effects of their actions? I just don't get it. I guess it isn't enough for these folks to hate gays, they need to condemn them to death (and themselves to somewhere especially bad beyond death) in the process.
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post #6 of 59
12/2/09 at 6:59pm
I think it's appaling what those extremists are trying to do. That being said though, please take care to not assume that all Christians/Evangelicals here in the US hold those same beliefs. I for one do not, as I'm sure many others do not eithor. Every religion is going to have an extremist group unfortunately, and it's usually those few groups that stirr up trouble for everyone else who identifies themself by a certain religion, but doesn't necessarily share extreme views. Unfortunately many non-extremists get clumped in together with extremists because other people fail to differentiate. It's essentially like sayings "All people of the Muslim faith are terrorists"...(not true) The majority of individuals of the Muslim faith are very peaceful, kind people who do not harm anyone. With every group, there are sometimes extremists that get out of hand and as a result, an entire religion or group of people recieve a bad reputation, instead of the small group of ill-intentioned people. I think sometimes people only see what they percieve as "the big picture" and group all people into one category or another, instead of taking the time to understand that not all religious groups/etc are bad....just the extremist individuals who intend to harm or mistreat others for their own agenda's sake.

I personally think ALL people should be treated equally, reguardless of sexual orientation. That's just my 2 cents.
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post #7 of 59
12/2/09 at 7:48pm
*sigh* When will the ReligionNuts* grow up and get it? Even assuming that they're right and it is a sin (I'm just saying, assume for the sake of argument), by the standard of perfection, which is what humans made in God's image are supposed to live up to, we're all worthless screwups anyway. Unless it causes clear-cut harm, who is anyone to judge anyone else's preferred expression of imperfection?

*This being different from normal people who have a faith
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post #8 of 59
12/3/09 at 10:12pm
Thread Starter 
The "Yes on 8" campaign, the oddly named "defense of marriage" and missions such as this one are all being funded by churches ponying up the funds. It appears that funding such escapades while claiming to not agree with them is little more than ignoring the reality of what they are supporting.

Incidents such as this one seem to drastically blur the line between the supposed good and extremists. Perhaps it's time for people who think they belong to a tolerant church to ask where all the money they'e contributing to "good works" is actually going.
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post #9 of 59
12/4/09 at 7:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
The "Yes on 8" campaign, the oddly named "defense of marriage" and missions such as this one are all being funded by churches ponying up the funds. It appears that funding such escapades while claiming to not agree with them is little more than ignoring the reality of what they are supporting.

Incidents such as this one seem to drastically blur the line between the supposed good and extremists. Perhaps it's time for people who think they belong to a tolerant church to ask where all the money they'e contributing to "good works" is actually going.
I totally agree. Although it is much easier to just turn a blind eye and remain in denial.

After 63 years on this earth and living in and in close proximity to the big city of Toronto where you can find many peoples, I have found that those that protest the loudest and hardest are usually the ones that are not certain of their own sexuality and the majority of them are men. That doesn't exclude women, of course, but women don't seem to be as "theatened" by homosexuals as men do. The men I find most attractive are not the big bluff macho types but the "comfortable in their own skins" type that are confident in themselves.
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post #10 of 59
12/4/09 at 8:37am
I just dont get it, and in truth, never have. I have an aunt who is gay and even as a kid i saw nothing wrong with it. What i found wrong was the fact that she was ashamed to go to church because of the teachings there and the fact that her mother has told he she will "Get Better" as if homosexuality is a disease.

As for the religious aspect we are all sinners...so if that is their argument against homosexuality i suppose we should all be sentanced to death.

Hey my family calls me a heathen because i am pagan and it just makes me laugh. We were created equal in the eyes of God, but not perfect. Never once has it said otherwise.

Judge not lest ye be judged and all that jazz
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post #11 of 59
12/4/09 at 9:34am
Once again, a quick search will show that these guys are in the business of religion, not religion itself. In fact, I could find no mention of church membership of any of them, and I doubt any but the most radical of churches would be associated with them.

In my opinion, these guys do more FOR the gay issues than against it.
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post #12 of 59
12/4/09 at 12:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlleyGirl View Post
Wow.

What's next? Murdering people for being ugly? Overweight? Stupid? Boring? Where does it end?
Or female?

Never been to Uganda?

Or the Congo?


It's very very very sad - I wish our governments and the UN were doing more to stop what is going on!!
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post #13 of 59
12/4/09 at 1:13pm
How damn awful, people should be free to live how they want to live, how on earth is being gay affecting anyone else, what anyone does behind closed doors is their own business. What on Earth is the world coming to? I have known alot of gay people and why are they so different to straight people??Its the people that are so against them that obviously have the problem, Beats me. x
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post #14 of 59
12/4/09 at 1:17pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
Once again, a quick search will show that these guys are in the business of religion, not religion itself. In fact, I could find no mention of church membership of any of them, and I doubt any but the most radical of churches would be associated with them.

In my opinion, these guys do more FOR the gay issues than against it.
Once again, a quick search reveals that this "business of religion" is being funded by churches all over the USA. Where else would religious business money come from? Churches are not restricted to recruiting their mercenaries and thugs from their own ranks. In fact, it creates a much better smoke screen to not do so.
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post #15 of 59
12/8/09 at 3:33am
Thread Starter 
How enlightening. Although numerous nations are decrying Uganda's bill to make homosexuality a capital crime, not one of the major christian players, such as the pope, archbishop, or influential mega-pastors, have so much as made a statement, although they are all still quite busy bashing gays.

If the silence of muslims is considered by some to be their silent approval of terrorism, what does this say of christianity's leaders?
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post #16 of 59
12/9/09 at 7:47am
Thread Starter 
Well, well. Some christian groups are "repenting their participation". I suppose that makes everything alright, doesn't it?
They can keep their repenting...what are they going to do about correcting? I doubt anything, it's not in their agenda. There will still be laws legalizing the murder of people they hate in another country by their own version of the taliban, all but the voting of which received their support. But, now they can claim innocence because they "repented their participation". What a pathetic and disgusting system.
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post #17 of 59
12/9/09 at 3:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
Well, well. Some christian groups are "repenting their participation". I suppose that makes everything alright, doesn't it?


They can keep their repenting...what are they going to do about correcting? I doubt anything, it's not in their agenda. There will still be laws legalizing the murder of people they hate in another country by their own version of the taliban, all but the voting of which received their support. But, now they can claim innocence because they "repented their participation". What a pathetic and disgusting system.
It certainly is enough to turn one off religion forever.
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post #18 of 59
12/14/09 at 10:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
U.S. evangelicals, pushing for passage of a law making being gay a capital offence in Uganda. AND, doing so using exactly the same "false witness" and propoganda campaign they've used in the states. Why am I not the least bit surprised. Disgusted at such slimey tactics and pathetic people, but not surprised.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...ntence-gay-sex
I haven't chosen to participate in this thread, mostly because, IMO, it is just your typical, usual, general Christian bashing thread that you start on a regular basis. So, I haven't read the thread, just the OP, so I apologize if this has been posted.

I thought I would post this, just because.



http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/12...anti-gay-bill/

Quote:
As we reported earlier, emerging revelations of the influence of conservative American Christian leaders on Ugandan church groups pushing the bill have generated wide interest in the story in the West -- hence the statement, organized by Faith in Public Life and Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good and signed by dozens of mainly evangelical and Catholic

"As Americans, some may wonder why we are raising our voices to oppose a measure proposed in a nation so far away from home," the signers declare in the statement, released Monday. "We do so to bear witness to our Christian values, and to express our condemnation of an injustice in which groups and leaders within the American Christian community are being implicated. We appeal to all Christian leaders in our own country to speak out against this unjust legislation."
I guess I am part of the "Christian Left" now. Who knew?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/katine/200...sexuality-bill

Quote:
Ugandan church leader brands anti-gay bill 'genocide'Prominent member of the Ugandan Anglican church, Canon Gideon Byamugisha, joins international condemnation of the anti-homosexuality bill, saying it will breed violence and intolerance.
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post #19 of 59
12/14/09 at 2:24pm
Thread Starter 
Ah yes! Christian Bashing. The last line of defense when there is an unanswerable question, unspinnable situation, or just plain ole' stark reality. Used any time that reality is just too uncomfortable.

Actually, attacking the messenger is exactly what I would expect in light of the facts being too evident to "throw a spin on".

And of course everyone is "making statements", now that they've gotten caught. So, are all these people making "feel gooder" statements going to actually do anything, or just let the possible genocide they've been helping fund come to pass while they sit around proclaiming innocence?
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post #20 of 59
12/14/09 at 7:08pm
Thread Starter 
Now that Uganda is faced with losing their AIDS research center, food and agricultural aid, and possibly even sanctions, they are showing signs of rethinking at least the punishment part of their proposed law.

So, at this moment, I make my prediction. That all these religious groups who are "repenting their involvment" and claiming innocence, will now jump immediately on the bandwagon and insist that Uganda's change of heart was because of something they did, or because of some influence they had...and will completely forget all the religious funding that went into promoting the new law to begin with...before they got called on it.
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post #21 of 59
12/14/09 at 7:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
Ah yes! Christian Bashing. The last line of defense when there is an unanswerable question, unspinnable situation, or just plain ole' stark reality. Used any time that reality is just too uncomfortable.

Actually, attacking the messenger is exactly what I would expect in light of the facts being too evident to "throw a spin on".

And of course everyone is "making statements", now that they've gotten caught. So, are all these people making "feel gooder" statements going to actually do anything, or just let the possible genocide they've been helping fund come to pass while they sit around proclaiming innocence?
What would you have them do, get machine guns and go in shooting?


I am not that familiar with what is going on in Uganda, but anyone that is backing a law that Uganda is trying to get insituted is not doing the work of Christ.

And anyone that doesn't stand up and denounce what Uganda is trying to do is a coward and an appeaser.

FTR though, your endless Chistian bashing threads do get tiresome so I have gotten in the habit of not even reading them.
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post #22 of 59
12/14/09 at 7:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
It certainly is enough to turn one off religion forever.
I would hope that there is a huge difference between turning away from organized religion
and turning away from personal faith in God and and his son.

What other people do has no bearing on my faith in Christ.

I do believe people should make a stand against wrong.
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post #23 of 59
12/14/09 at 9:04pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
What would you have them do, get machine guns and go in shooting?


I am not that familiar with what is going on in Uganda, but anyone that is backing a law that Uganda is trying to get insituted is not doing the work of Christ.

And anyone that doesn't stand up and denounce what Uganda is trying to do is a coward and an appeaser.

FTR though, your endless Chistian bashing threads do get tiresome so I have gotten in the habit of not even reading them.
Ceasing to fund such "mission" trips would be a good place to start. They could also voice their displeasure to the Ugandan government, and not just proclaim their questionable innocence to the western media.

It actually amazes me sometimes how much Christianity and Islam have in common. One area of common ground is in debating. If you ask a Muslim "those tough questions", they will simply say "you are a non-believer, you are not worth talking to!"...and then they will ignore the question. If you ask a Christian "those tough questions", they will simply say "Christian bashing"...and then they will ignore the question. It's almost as though they read the same book or something.
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post #24 of 59
12/16/09 at 8:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
Ceasing to fund such "mission" trips would be a good place to start. They could also voice their displeasure to the Ugandan government, and not just proclaim their questionable innocence to the western media.

It actually amazes me sometimes how much Christianity and Islam have in common. One area of common ground is in debating. If you ask a Muslim "those tough questions", they will simply say "you are a non-believer, you are not worth talking to!"...and then they will ignore the question. If you ask a Christian "those tough questions", they will simply say "Christian bashing"...and then they will ignore the question. It's almost as though they read the same book or something.
I know, I know, those darn Christians are just flying planes into buildings willy nilly all over the place. If they aren't doing that they are out beheading people left and right.

And I do believe I answered the question and said it was wrong and that they should make a stand.
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post #25 of 59
12/17/09 at 12:17am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
I know, I know, those darn Christians are just flying planes into buildings willy nilly all over the place. If they aren't doing that they are out beheading people left and right.
No need to use planes when they can just sends drones over someones border, or "let go the reins" on a bunch of mercenaries in someone's town square.

Quote:
And I do believe I answered the question and said it was wrong and that they should make a stand.
Well, one, that wasn't one of the tough questions. Two, quite a few have said it is wrong and they should make a stand, after it was pointed out that they had poured huge amounts of money into funding missions that are pushing for the murder of gays in Uganda. There is however, one of the missionaries that is actually distressed about the proposed law. It seems that if they just kill all the gays, he won't be getting any more money from the Ugandan government for "treating" them. Poor fellow. May have shot his own cash cow.
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post #26 of 59
12/17/09 at 9:12am
I do not, for one second, believe that every group that has supported Christian missions in Uganda has done so for the reason of hating gay people.

Well, what ARE the tough questions?

I didn't realize the Christians even HAVE "drones." Which Christians would that be?
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post #27 of 59
12/17/09 at 2:52pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
I do not, for one second, believe that every group that has supported Christian missions in Uganda has done so for the reason of hating gay people.

Well, what ARE the tough questions?

I didn't realize the Christians even HAVE "drones." Which Christians would that be?
Most don't have the first idea of what their "support" is being used for. The missions promoting those laws receive a wide range of financial support from all over the religious community...and are apparently still getting it, as none of them have come home.

We can start with "The Daily Biblical Battle Briefing" Rumsfeld.

But your right, why even bother with drones when you can get laws like that passed in developing countries.
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post #28 of 59
12/17/09 at 7:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
Most don't have the first idea of what their "support" is being used for. The missions promoting those laws receive a wide range of financial support from all over the religious community...and are apparently still getting it, as none of them have come home.

We can start with "The Daily Biblical Battle Briefing" Rumsfeld.

But your right, why even bother with drones when you can get laws like that passed in developing countries.
You didn't answer my question, which Christians have "drones?"

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post #29 of 59
12/17/09 at 7:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
No need to use planes when they can just sends drones over someones border, or "let go the reins" on a bunch of mercenaries in someone's town square.
Yep, you sure did mention drones, who are "they" that, " can just sends drones over someones border,"?

I'm not understanding what Christians have "drones".
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post #30 of 59
12/17/09 at 8:08pm
What a scary thread.
Drones, really???
If you are so afraid of life you see drones, time to get you some help.
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