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My new dog just attacked Cello, I don't know what to do.  

post #1 of 25
11/30/09 at 9:09pm
Thread Starter 
I am now officially in tears and don't know what to do. Everything was going so well with our new rescue Riikka, she was doing great with the cats, pretty much ignoring them, and they finally have gotten comfortable around her.

Today Cello just went to walk by her in the hallway, she was standing there, and he was JUST WALKING, and out of nowhere she grabbed him in her mouth and pinned him to the floor, not chased him, not play, but just straight out attached him. Thank god we were there, he is OK, terrified, but physically OK.

I am now terrified. Part of the reason I got her was because she was tested with cats, and we've had her over a week and she has barely shown any interest in them, and this just came out of nowhere. I would never ever forgive myself or her if she hurt them.

I can't crate her because of her abuse issues........ I don't know what to do, I don't know if I can live like this...... I don't know if I should bring her back. I can't can't can't risk my cats.
post #2 of 25
11/30/09 at 9:15pm
Well... Are you sure that was an attack?
If that was, I am sorry, but the dog would not be staying if that was in my house... That is a difficult decision, I know... but... I wouldn't risk it either... For tonight, can you separate them?
Or, do you have a garden? Can the dog be an outside only dog? Is there a friend, and acquaintance, someone else who can take the dog so it doesn't need to go back to the shelter?
At home, after this, inside with the cats I would advise against it.
post #3 of 25
11/30/09 at 9:24pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinalima View Post
Well... Are you sure that was an attack?
If that was, I am sorry, but the dog would not be staying if that was in my house... That is a difficult decision, I know... but... I wouldn't risk it either... For tonight, can you separate them?
Or, do you have a garden? Can the dog be an outside only dog? Is there a friend, and acquaintance, someone else who can take the dog so it doesn't need to go back to the shelter?
At home, after this, inside with the cats I would advise against it.
I don't know how to be sure it was an attack. But she def. had him in her mouth and I'm not OK with that.
post #4 of 25
11/30/09 at 9:27pm
Do any of the Shelters in your area have trainers or bahviorists>??

Can you keep the pup in another part of the house?>

How old is she>? Sorry i forgot
post #5 of 25
11/30/09 at 9:30pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
Do any of the Shelters in your area have trainers or bahviorists>??

Can you keep the pup in another part of the house?>

How old is she>? Sorry i forgot
we are having a vet/behaviourist come in tomorrow for a house call. But I am so freaked out now because this was out of nowhere. And all I can think about is what I would do if she ever hurt one of them. This wasn't a nice bite.

I can keep the cats locked in the spare room, right now there is a kitty door into this room that I can close when we aren't home (and will obviously do this until I figure out what to do) But I really feel like this is so unfair to them.

She is 2 or 3 we think.
post #6 of 25
11/30/09 at 9:33pm
IMHO she should be young enough to work this out .. BUT... She is showing a KNOWN trait for many Anatolians & anatolian mixes
post #7 of 25
11/30/09 at 9:35pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
IMHO she should be young enough to work this out .. BUT... She is showing a KNOWN trait for many Anatolians & anatolian mixes
but how do i work it out and guarentee my cats safety? since there was nothing leading up to this. nothing.
there were no signs, so what do I fix?
post #8 of 25
11/30/09 at 9:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmunsie View Post
but how do i work it out and guarentee my cats safety? since there was nothing leading up to this. nothing.
there were no signs, so what do I fix?
IMO there are no guarantees - aside from separating them.... I would do that until the behaviorist comes into the house.
post #9 of 25
11/30/09 at 9:51pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinalima View Post
IMO there are no guarantees - aside from separating them.... I would do that until the behaviorist comes into the house.
oh of course i will. The cats sleep with me at night, and tomorrow when I leave for work I'll just have to lock them up in the spare room. (they have water and litter, kitty condo and "bird TV" - window with bird feeder outside)

So they'll do better locked up then she will in a crate (abuse issues)

I just don't know if this is something I can live with.

In a weird way I wish there had been a sign, or it had been provoked so I could know what to watch for.

And for the record, I live in Ontario, so outdoor dog, not an option. And I didn't get a dog to have an outdoor animal, I got a dog to have an indoor companion
post #10 of 25
11/30/09 at 11:18pm
I'm no expert but hearing of the past abuse does not sit well with me. I found this on the internet:

Proper obedience training from a young age is vital, since this will determine whether your Anatolian will become a pleasant and docile companion or an intractable nightmare. The Anatolian Shepherd’s large size coupled with its independent and sometimes obstinate personality can sometimes make training a daunting task; this dog is therefore recommended for experienced dog owners only. Exposure to other pets and small animals from a young age will help your Anatolian Shepherd overcome his natural chasing instincts.

Source: http://calmodog.wordpress.com/2009/0...-karabash-dog/

The above says "young age" ... I'm not sure if 2-3 years old is young enough. I pray you get a good/smart behaviourist. I am sending vibes to your household
post #11 of 25
12/1/09 at 1:45am
I feel so bad for you. I love animals and it would break my heart to be going through this.

FYI, my son had an Alaskan Malamute. She was raised from a pup with his two cats. One time, when I was there babysitting, there was a commotion in the kitchen. By this time she was full grown. She had one of his cats pinned down. The other cat was going after the dog to save his friend. It was absolutely frightening. I got the pinned cat away. He was ok.

A couple of weeks later, the dog was outside. Again, I heard a commotion. The dog had a barn cat from nextdoor in her mouth, shaking it. Killed it in front of me, while I ran at her screaming and crying. A sat in the grass with the dead cat yelling how much I hated that dog. It was awful. She was put to sleep because of this and other chronic health issues.

Now, researching malamutes, they say they can be aggressive with small animals. You really need to know the breeds. My son did not know how they can be. It created so much heartache.

He now has a golden retreiver. The kindest dog. Loves the cats. I feel for you, this is a hard decision....but I think you know what needs to be done.
post #12 of 25
12/1/09 at 2:15am
Yeah... Checking the breed I am kind of concerned... First, the breed needs to be raised with cats and other small pets from a very small age to be safe around them when adults.
Second, that is not a breed to be inside... This is a breed to have an yard as needs lots of exercise. IMHO not a safe breed to rescue as an adult with cats in the house... After the above post I would take that as a serious warning.
post #13 of 25
12/1/09 at 4:36am
Thread Starter 
well, she may have anatolian shepherd in her, but there is no real way to know. For all I know she is shepherd lab. Thanks for all the advice....
post #14 of 25
12/1/09 at 4:42am
I'm very glad that Cello was physically ok. The fact that Cello was not physically injured is your proof that it was not an attack. If Riikka had wanted to attack or harm your cat, it would have been a very different story. Dogs kill small prey by shaking, not by pinning down. What it sounds like to me is inappropriate play (doggy wrestling), and Cello was not prepared for it. Riikka has been ignoring the cats, not growling or stalking so it's possible that the only sign was a slight stiffening of the body. This is going to sound odd I know, but the fact that Riikka had Cello in her mouth pinned down and yet did not harm Cello tells me that Riikka has a "soft mouth" and in fact knows where the limits are as to how much pressure can be applied. It looks as thought someone taught her bite inhibition (which I consider a good thing) at an early age.

The trick now will be to stop Riikka from trying to wrestle with your kitties without creating a negative association with your cats. In other words, the dog who always hears "NO" "Bad Dog" for even getting close to a cat eventually might decide that there is something bad about the cat. It's also the classic mistake that dog owners make with babies - they teach the dog to have an aversion to the baby by scolding it for even getting near it.
post #15 of 25
12/1/09 at 4:45am
I am pretty sure every large breed dog will say will be ok if raised with cats, every dog has the posibility of not getting along with cats, even Goldens

But attacking the cats is not something I would tolerate. One of the reasons we are hesitant to dog / cat check dogs in the shelter is that for both animals, its not a familiar environment. The way they behave in the shelter can be completely different to at home.

We have one dog that comes to mind, he broke our hearts. He came in when he was a bit under a year, maybe 10 months, we had a feeling he had been abused by his owner but he never showed any of the classic signs, except for one day when I picked up a rope toy and chucked it into a nearby toy bucket and he hit the floor cowering. I stuck my hands in this dogs mouth countless times to grab stuff he found on desks or wherever to chew. He went home and bit someone and was returned. Knowing him as we did, we seen the bite but thought something must have spooked him, but sure enough he went to a second home and bit again, a nasty bite and completely unprovoked and with one of our dogwalkers who we trusted. He came back to the shelter on quarantine and was the sweetest thing again - it just wasnt a home environment for him and he never reacted the same.

I would see what the behaviourist says before making any decisions
post #16 of 25
12/1/09 at 6:10am
I respectfully have to disagree with 2dogmom. My son tried to dismiss the attack on their cat by saying it was play. I was there, it was not play. And then the dead cat.

My cats are too important to me and the OP indicated the same. I think too much credit is given to the dog that he "knows where the limits are". This is too risky a situation IMO.

If it were me, I would err on the side of safety for my cats. This does not sound like play to me. I would hate to have the OP find out the hard way as we did.
post #17 of 25
12/1/09 at 6:33am
Visit the National Anatolian Shepherd Rescue Network. You will find answers to your questions.
post #18 of 25
12/1/09 at 7:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogmom View Post
I'm very glad that Cello was physically ok. The fact that Cello was not physically injured is your proof that it was not an attack.
I'm sorry--I have to disagree with this statement. Although we have no way of knowing for sure that this was an "attack" (and by "attack" it seems that we are referring to the dog's attempt to kill or seriously maim the cat), we also have no way of knowing for sure that it wasn't an attack. It may just be that at that moment, that was the "best" attack that the dog was able to make. Also to be considered, I think, is the effect that this had/will have on the cat. If I were the cat, I would probably be forever fearful/very wary around the dog.

Sending my best wishes to lmunsie. What a horrible situation to be placed in. Whatever you decide, based on what I've seen in other threads of this nature, it is probably best never to leave a large dog alone with cats (even if the dog seems like the "sweetest, gentlest, etc.").
post #19 of 25
12/1/09 at 8:02am
I'm sorry this has happened. As much as I would want to save her, after the abuse she has suffered, I would have to rehome her. Not just for the cats, but for yourself. No matter what training she gets, you'd go crazy with this fear and worry in the back of your mind for the remainder of this dog's life. No one should live under such stress. Nor should your cats.

She needs a cat free home with someone who is experienced with problem dogs. Rather than take her back to the shelter could a breed specific rescue be an option?
post #20 of 25
12/1/09 at 9:03am
Thread Starter 
thanks for the replies everyone. I am sitting at work crying my eyes out being in this situation because I really care about this dog and how far she's come. But it looks like it's coming down to the fact that now it's always going to be in the back of my head that she did this. I don't know if I can trust her, and my cats are my world.

If it happens again, yes she would be gone, but if that's 6 months from now it will only be harder, and if she actually hurt the cats I can't say what I would do.

The fact that it was unprovoked, there were no signs, no posturing, no play-bowing makes it completely unpredictable which is the scariest thing to me. How can I correct something I don't know about. And had we not been there to grab her how do I know it wouldn't have been worse.

I should mention she is NOT going to the shelter if she leaves us she is going to a foster home that has other GSD that she gets along with.

She is wonderful with people and a doll with other dogs, very easy to train, not destructive at all, and can be left for 7-8 hours alone......so if she needs a no cat household, maybe that is the answer. Either way I feel like my heart is being torn into a million little bits.
post #21 of 25
12/1/09 at 9:56am
Oh dear, I feel so bad. You must die a little bit each time you read something here.

I know how you feel. I did love my son's dog, Cheyenne. I hated what she did to the cat. That's just it, it is so unpredictable. I would go to get his kids off the school bus and let her out. Before I did, I took my husbands air horn for our boat and walked around the property blaring it to scare away any cats that might be hiding in the field. Neighbors probably thought I was crazy. But I was that concerned. Couldn't go through that again.

At least she won't be pts. You know, sometimes things just don't work out. You sure have a good heart to try and give the dog a good home. It may not be in the cards. But, the dog may end up with someone who has no other animals or small kids. That would be ideal.

Take it easy, just one step at a time. Keep your kitties safe and calmly decide what to do. Good thoughts are coming to you. Keep us posted. We do care about you and the kitties and the dog.
post #22 of 25
12/1/09 at 5:19pm
Aw Lise, I'm so sorry to hear this. Of course the kitties need to come first. If the dog is not going to a shelter but to a loving foster home I think I would recommend that before you become more attached to her than you already are. Considering she seems to have been abused, I don't think you can take the chance that she will not act inappropriately. My heart goes out to you and Steve.
post #23 of 25
12/1/09 at 5:27pm
Toby did that to my mom's cat. Yes, it was scary. No, I do not fully trust him with the cats (although he has never offered to hurt any of HIS cats). Yes, I will not leave him alone with the cats (the dogs are kept in a dog-proofed room when I'm gone). It's all about management. It can be done, and millions of dog/cat owners do it. You just have to decide if you want to put forth the kind of effort it takes to manage this type of situation. It's no different than keeping birds/rodents when you have cats.
post #24 of 25
12/1/09 at 5:29pm
Thread Starter 
thanks for the support everyone, i'm glad you understand my fear for my kitties. After talking to the vet/behaviorist and the rescue we determined that keeping her here would be unfair to her, because I don't know that we'd ever trust her, the cats, because I'd have to keep them locked up and of course to us, because we can't live like that.

They had a foster home for her, she was not going back to the shelter, and atleast we could tell them a much better profile for her. As long as she is in a home without cats she'll do wonderfully, and it took her only a week to bond with us and trust us, so I know she can do it again.

Not to say it was easy, I've been sobbing all day and still am, leaving her was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do and we only had her for a week.

But the cats are safe now, and I don't know how we'll move on, but we will.

I respectfully ask that this thread be closed.
post #25 of 25
12/1/09 at 5:47pm
A tough decision to be sure. Hugs Hon.

I'll close this thread for you now.
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