by products: why are they bad?

I'm absorbing all the info on this thread, but I can surely say that I don't think I'll be able to eat any meat that I don't buy raw and cook myself for a while (if ever)...

Originally Posted by sharky

http://www.petfoodreport.com/aboutpetfood.htm

Question
I read that there might be rendered cats and dogs in my pet food. Is this true?

Answer
Absolutely not. Pet food companies take great care to formulate products that meet the needs of pet dogs and cats. They understand the great affection we have for our pets and have gone to extreme measures to make sure no ingredients from dogs and cats go into their products.

Pet food companies have exacting specifications and work closely with their suppliers to make sure they receive only the ingredients they specifically request.

It is from 2004


this is really long and has lots of info ...
http://www.bornfreeusa.org/facts.php?more=1&p=359
Meat or poultry “by-products†are very common in wet pet foods. Remember that “meat†refers to only cows, swine, sheep, and goats. Since sheep and goats are rare compared to the 37 million cows and 100 million hogs slaughtered for food every year, nearly all meat by-products come from cattle and pigs.

The better brands of pet food, such as many “super-premium,†“natural,†and “organic†varieties, do not use by-products. On the label, youâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]ll see one or more named meats among the first few ingredients, such as “turkey†or “lamb.†These meats are still mainly leftover scraps; in the case of poultry, bones are allowed, so “chicken†consists mainly of backs and frames—the spine and ribs, minus their expensive breast meat. The small amount of meat left on the bones is the meat in the pet food. Even with this less-attractive source, pet food marketers are very tricky when talking about meat, so this is explained further in the section on “Marketing Magic†below.
updated in 2007

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From the same document you provided:

Because of persistent rumors that rendered by-products contain dead dogs and cats, the FDA conducted a study looking for pentobarbital, the most common euthanasia drug, in pet foods. They found it. Ingredients that were most commonly associated with the presence of pentobarbital were meat-and-bone-meal and animal fat. However, they also used very sensitive tests to look for canine and feline DNA, which were not found. Industry insiders admit that rendered pets and roadkill were used in pet food some years ago. Although there are still no laws or regulations against it, the practice is uncommon today,and pet food companies universally deny that their products contain any such materials. However, so-called “4D†animals (dead, dying, diseased, disabled) were only recently banned for human consumption and are still legitimate ingredients for pet food.

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http://www.bornfreeusa.org/facts.php?more=1&p=359

Originally Posted by carolinalima

From the same document you provided:

http://www.bornfreeusa.org/facts.php?more=1&p=359

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That would be what I said.. that yes it happened in the Past but not likely in the present

Originally Posted by sharky

ONE modern day by products are NOT dead , dying or diseased for the Majority in the USA..

So By products are not bad just not as good as muscle meat that you KNOW what it is

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Originally Posted by sharky

I would have told you, IT was True/ possible more than 30 plus yrs ago... but today very unlikely... Because the laws were different and definitions are different ... Now if you are asking if meat by product contains horses , It likely does( IMHO this is a pet ) ... could it have dog and cat technically it could but if it did today I would be calling the DA and the local cops

.. Road kill is often Fish and game that can have differing laws ... In one area Roadkill was GIVEN to the Local food bank ... In most areas it goes to the local dump to be incinerated or cremated .. In my area it goes to the shelter to be placed with the euthanized animals headed to the crematorium



I only did this research of laws within the last year outside what I was taught by a Pet Food company that did not use by products... they even said NO dog s and cats are NOT in pet food and did some basic rendering plant explanation

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this would say that :_)

Downer cows are still in our food chain though yes illegal ...

Originally Posted by sharky

That would be what I said..

that yes it happened in the Past but not likely in the present

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As of today there are no laws or regulations against the use of road kill or pets in the food industry, thus no guarantees. The practice is Uncommon today, it doesn't mean it is non-existing. Also, 4-D Meats are still legitimate ingredients in the pet food industry

Originally Posted by ut0pia

I'm absorbing all the info on this thread, but I can surely say that I don't think I'll be able to eat any meat that I don't buy raw and cook myself for a while (if ever)...

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Funny but kind of sad, isn't it?

Originally Posted by carolinalima

Funny but kind of sad, isn't it?

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I just couldn't get past seeing that video where they dumped the bodies of dead dogs That was wayyy too sad..And the grinders they showed, honestly I doubt the grinders for human food are that different even if they are more careful about what goes in them, and if you have seen Fast Food nation, then you would know that the USDA doesn't do that great of a job already...I'm never having any meat that has gone through any grinder unless i've ground it myself, seriously...Even if no dead pets are going in those grinders they use for human food, I don't care I'm not eating it...
I know the subject is pet food, not human food, and I'm learning from this thread...If I wasn't in the middle of writing my final paper for one of my classes, I'd do more research of my own too..I'll definitely do some more research on my own after I'm finished with my paper though and I'll also look more closely at the links already posted..
That video was just soooo sad and gross and terrible !!!!

I don't have any problem with byproducts in the foods I feed as long as they are not high in the ingredient list. (edit: The few processed foods I feed are wet only.) I think there are other ingredients that are of far more concern. Some of what is contained in byproducts are very healthy and beneficial to cats (brains, organs, cartilage, etc) .

For me the biggest problem with them is that there is no way to know what exactly the byproduct is composed of *nutrient wise*.

Sharkey - Do the pet food manufacturers even know exactly what the nutrient composition is of the byproducts they use? Do they just get a big lump of something labelled "byproducts" that they use in their formulations? If so, how do they know how that ingredient affects the guaranteed analysis of their foods and how it affects the total nutrition composition of the food?

Originally Posted by mschauer

I don't have any problem with byproducts in the foods I feed as long as they are not high in the ingredient list. (edit: The few processed foods I feed are wet only.) I think there are other ingredients that are of far more concern. Some of what is contained in byproducts are very healthy and beneficial to cats (brains, organs, cartilage, etc) .

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This is my thoughts as well, based on personal research.

Even Elizabeth M. Hodgkins DVM has a blurb about byproducts in her book "Your Cat: Simple new secrets to a longer, stronger life" stating that they aren't all bad.

I do like named byproducts over "meat byproducts".

Originally Posted by sharky

this is really long and has lots of info ...
http://www.bornfreeusa.org/facts.php?more=1&p=359
Meat or poultry “by-products” are very common in wet pet food

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This is a great article. It has a factual, objective tone to it which is sorely lacking in most articles on the topic of the quality of pet foods.

Originally Posted by Snake_Lady

This is my thoughts as well, based on personal research.

Even Elizabeth M. Hodgkins DVM has a blurb about byproducts in her book "Your Cat: Simple new secrets to a longer, stronger life" stating that they aren't all bad.

I do like named byproducts over "meat byproducts".

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What is your objection to "meat byproducts"? Unless an animal has a known allergy to some protein what difference does it make?

Originally Posted by mschauer

What is your objection to "meat byproducts"? Unless an animal has a known allergy to some protein what difference does it make?

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Personally, I like knowing what animal my guys are eating. That is why my preference on named byproducts.

That said, I have fed foods where meat byproducts occur lower on the list of ingreds.

Just my preference

Originally Posted by Snake_Lady

Personally, I like knowing what animal my guys are eating. That is why my preference on named byproducts.

That said, I have fed foods where meat byproducts occur lower on the list of ingreds.

Just my preference

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Fair enough!

I'll use some with by products listed lower, too. I just have to be careful with chicken and Tomas - so "poultry" isn't good.

RE: Regulations on pet food not being as high as human. It has changed a lot recently. The FDA is on everyone over it. Currently they're darn near equal - though that doesn't say much with all the quality issues human foods have. Not all of the human food recalls make it on the news, but they're more frequent than pet foods ones are. The USDA has been having a lot of issues lately..
I also want to know something. How many making claims have been in the plants that make pet foods? How many have witnessed exactly what goes in, the tests run, and policies for sanitation?

Originally Posted by mschauer

I don't have any problem with byproducts in the foods I feed as long as they are not high in the ingredient list. (edit: The few processed foods I feed are wet only.) I think there are other ingredients that are of far more concern. Some of what is contained in byproducts are very healthy and beneficial to cats (brains, organs, cartilage, etc) .

For me the biggest problem with them is that there is no way to know what exactly the byproduct is composed of *nutrient wise*. This Is my issue also

Sharky - Do the pet food manufacturers even know exactly what the nutrient composition is of the byproducts they use? Do they just get a big lump of something labelled "byproducts" that they use in their formulations? If so, how do they know how that ingredient affects the guaranteed analysis of their foods and how it affects the total nutrition composition of the food?

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Many pet food manufacturers claim to know Exactly what it is their by products ... I suspect they run an analysis when it get s to the pet food plant..One company wrote HOW HIGH their BY product protein was at 68% , that means its protein level was = to corn gluten... I was told a long long time ago that by products are put in a vat and depending what the vat had determined what company took it ...

Strange wings Do you have any thoughts on that?

Originally Posted by sharky

One company wrote HOW HIGH their BY product protein was at 68% , that means its protein level was = to corn gluten...

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And the byproduct ingredient would be animal protein and not vegtable protein as with the corn gluten.

Hmm, I think the argument could be made that pet foods that include byproducts *could* be healthier than products that exclude it on the basis that the byproducts provide a natural source of nutrients that are provided by way of supplements in other products.

Originally Posted by mschauer

And the byproduct ingredient would be animal protein and not vegtable protein as with the corn gluten.

Hmm, I think the argument could be made that pet foods that include byproducts *could* be healthier than products that exclude it on the basis that the byproducts provide a natural source of nutrients that are provided by way of supplements in other products.

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It was a BASIC comparative analysis..68% protein would yield approx 55% digestion the corn gluten actually yield s 66-76% digestion . By contrast beef muscle meat is 89% digestible...

Now yes I agree 100%, organs are better for a carnivore overall than a plant based protein diet...

My issue is that 68% protein would yield a CONSIDERABLE amount of bone matter( most organs are 80% plus protein). Of course there is another discussion on that right now.

Originally Posted by strange_wings

I'll use some with by products listed lower, too. I just have to be careful with chicken and Tomas - so "poultry" isn't good.

RE: Regulations on pet food not being as high as human. It has changed a lot recently. The FDA is on everyone over it. Currently they're darn near equal - though that doesn't say much with all the quality issues human foods have. Not all of the human food recalls make it on the news, but they're more frequent than pet foods ones are. The USDA has been having a lot of issues lately..
I also want to know something. How many making claims have been in the plants that make pet foods? How many have witnessed exactly what goes in, the tests run, and policies for sanitation?

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One of our members, Arlyn, has been to one by-product rendering facility... She said she rather feed a whole bunch of grains but she will never again feed by-product after seeing what is cooked in those vats and in what conditions.

Sharky - about finding out what exactly is inside of meat by-product AFTER delivery, if not specified by the plant: They can order DNA tests, but that will not give quantities (and i highly doubt they would do that, I heard only FDA doing it) and they also can test for percentages - protein, fat, etc. But they will not be able afterwords to stipulate what is responsible for that percentage...

Originally Posted by carolinalima

One of our members, Arlyn, has been to one by-product rendering facility... She said she rather feed a whole bunch of grains but she will never again feed by-product after seeing what is cooked in those vats and in what conditions.

Sharky - about finding out what exactly is inside of meat by-product AFTER delivery, if not specified by the plant: They can order DNA tests, but that will not give quantities (and i highly doubt they would do that, I heard only FDA doing it) and they also can test for percentages - protein, fat, etc. But they will not be able afterwords to stipulate what is responsible for that percentage...

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Strange wings can tell you but I will say she know s WAY more about pet food processing than a visit or two ...

That is along the lines of what I said , now YES it could have changed... And I suspect it has and is considered Proprietary information

I have not been to a meat processing plant in many many yrs ... it was a field trip many moons ago

Originally Posted by sharky

Many pet food manufacturers claim to know Exactly what it is their by products ... I suspect they run an analysis when it get s to the pet food plant..One company wrote HOW HIGH their BY product protein was at 68% , that means its protein level was = to corn gluten... I was told a long long time ago that by products are put in a vat and depending what the vat had determined what company took it ...

Strange wings Do you have any thoughts on that?

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All meats that come in have to meet the same quality standards, (every brand has to have the same quality standards - cheaper ones don't get substandard meat) even the by products have to meet those standards. There's a certificate of analysis, and the product has to meet the specs listed when they test it. Otherwise it's rejected.
Meats would be marked as by what it is (those lesser cuts and bits, type of meats), but some of it is just the same meat that goes into our processed meat products (depends on what can be sourced per specific formulas).
When they cook it, it's basically following a recipe per formula. So much of this, so much of that, etc. In a plant that takes bids for other companies they run so many tons of just that formula at a time, clean up and move on to the next formula. (much like you pointed out in other shared food plants) Everything is kept track of - they can go back over logs. It has to be cooked and processed just like human foods are, one slip up and production is shut down (the machines themselves kick off for some things). If something is wrong on the logs, the food is pulled.
Those sometimes difficult to read lot numbers all track back to plant and shift and match up to their logs.

I hope I didn't miss exactly what you were asking for. As far as meat goes, as long as it doesn't contain anything harmful, once cooked - meat is meat (as far as companies feeding it to us are concerned).


The question was asked a while back "would you eat it". If I was starving, probably - that's what it would take for me to eat spam and potted meat, too. It's no worse than other processed meat products - anymore the quality regulation as the same. As a very young child I did eat dry cat food regulations weren't as good back then and it didn't kill me.