Don't know if our dog is spay. *sigh* advice? esp. from those in rescue

As most of you reading this thread know, last week we adopted a dog. She was at a shelter in Quebec, she was pulled from the shelter by a rescue in Ontario about an hour from where we live, and we adopted her the DAY AFTER the rescue picked her up.

The adoption fee was $300, and "included" her spay certificate and up to date vaccinations (no heartworm check, or microchip, which I wasn't thrilled about, but oh well!)

However my SO went to get her and they told him that they forgot her file in Quebec but were going back this week and would fax him the stuff.

Needless to say the shelter "lost" her file. So we got in contact with the actual vet that did her vaccinations in Quebec and got her records, but there is no record of a spay at that vet, so we have no certificate. I have search for a scar but can't find any.

Now what confuses me to start with is, if the shelter in Quebec did not spay her themselves, how the heck do they know she was spay.

I've been in contact with my vet..... AND another vet I know. Apparently you can't tell my ultrasound (which I find weird) and I have 2 options

1) have her cut open (not happy about this) to check
2) wait for her to go in heat (very unhappy about this - un-neutered male dogs in the neighbourhood.... plus I don't want to deal with this, PLUS I still need a spay certificate for licensing!)

I am very frustrated. I am going to have my vet shave her to take a good look. The shelter said we could drive her back there (an hour) and they will have her cut open (so ridiculous).

I honestly want my money back, I have a contract, signed, that is supposed to come with a certificate. I feel like a jerk asking, but I want the money back and I'll deal with it myself using the $300 I paid. Although for the record, I resuced an older dog so i wouldn't have to deal with this stuff.

*sigh*

advice? comments?

No advice other than shaving her and looking for the scar. I wouldn't cut her open..... not right now anyways..... how ridgid is the licensing? I mean, do they come around? (here they come around once a year, so if it were me, I'd have a yr or so to prove the spay)

I would ask the rescue you got her from, your question

Now what confuses me to start with is, if the shelter in Quebec did not spay her themselves, how the heck do they know she was spay

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and tell them if they cannot provide a certificate I want my money back so that I can take her in an have her spayed.

Comments: You are absolutely right in being upset, frustrated and angry. For $300 I sure would expect a spay certificate, and completely understand as I've had to provide a spay certificate for licensing purposes.

Oh and when you're checking her for the scar, look for small ones too in case it was laproscopic.... you'd probally have to get her shaved to see that.

First call and ask what vet or vet clinics they use for the spay and then call them ...

Originally Posted by sharky

First call and ask what vet or vet clinics they use for the spay and then call them ...

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we did this, they are the ones that gave us her vaccination records, but have no record of an alteration.

So my only guess is that the shelter was able to find a scar or something, to determine she was already altered when they got her, however they don't have her file, so they have no idea, nor does the rescue

Originally Posted by Snake_Lady

not right now anyways..... how ridgid is the licensing? I mean, do they come around? (here they come around once a year, so if it were me, I'd have a yr or so to prove the spay)

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It is quite a severe fine in my town (between 300-500$), they come around house to house once a year as well as doing random checks.

As soon as I seen Quebec, I knew where she came from - I would go get her checked by a vet for a spay scar and hopefully they can find one. We rescued a 2 year old Lab from them, who turned out to be 9 and not spayed.

Can you license her as unspayed with spay to come? Do yours renew in Jan or are they annual from when bought? Animal Control there is awful so I would pay the double to ensure she doesnt stay there if she ever did get out.

Most shelters (I have seen anyways) have a clause in their contract releasing them from any financial liability once the pet is adopted. We have one here, but only because stupid people came back on the shelter for ER visits for silly things.

Is there any way you can speak to them at the city? Honestly - tell them you were told she is spayed, however have no documentation - find out if you can later provide proof she is spayed?

They need written proof (spay certificate) but will allow people to get a refund later if spayed.

We have a financial liability clause in our contract, however, I believe adopting out an unspayed dog as spayed would be misrepresentation and void the contract.

Personally I would keep the receipt you paid for her. And then wait out to see if she comes into heat. Contact the shelter and get in writing that if the dog is NOT spayed, then they will cover the cost because you already "paid" for it.

Originally Posted by icklemiss21

We have a financial liability clause in our contract, however, I believe adopting out an unspayed dog as spayed would be misrepresentation and void the contract.

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Absolutely it is a misrepresentation (at best). Judging by the fact that this Quebec shelter seems to have a bad reputation, I'm thinking this is deliberate and common practice for them, done for a money grab thinking they will get away with it. I have to admit I'm feeling really down on our shelters and animal control system right now, so I tending towards a negative interpretation.

Anyway, I know this for a fact: a recently rescued dog going into heat is not a fun thing to have to deal with! I would definitely try to get her done as soon as possible and recoup costs later from the original shelter.

Originally Posted by pushylady

I'm thinking this is deliberate and common practice for them, done for a money grab thinking they will get away with it.

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The group pulls from high kill shelters in Quebec and brings them to Ontario where we have higher adoption rates. They dont make money on them (although they keep the most adoptable ones for their own shelter and make money on those) but they rely on the information given to them from the various animal controls and shelters they pull from which is usually not very accurate

Yeah, I once picked up a stray dog, took her to the vet for shots and heartworm testing, and asked if they thought she was spayed. The vet palpitated her stomach a bunch and said she wasn't sure and the only thing to do was to wait to see if she went into heat. She started bleeding right there in the vet's office, LOL.....probably all that prodding.

It's possible that when her owners turned her in to the shelter, they said she was already spayed. But without her surrender file, that's impossible to know. Does she have "titties"? It's a good bet (if she's not too young) that she's had a litter if she's not spayed, and most dogs who have had litters have noticeable teats, even years after the puppies came.

Personally, if the vet can't find a scar after shaving, I would wait to see if she goes into heat. Having a dog in heat is not quite as bad as having a cat in heat. They're a lot more manageable, and keeping the boys away isn't as hard (cats can jump and climb!). Keep her away from boys for one month from the time you see bleeding, and you should be safe. Than wait 2 months and have her spayed (if you have a dog spayed too close to her heat, the bleeding can get out of control---best to have it done in the middle of her cycle).

Try to get the shelter to put it in writing that if she isn't spayed, they'll pay for it....that's what the spay certificate is for, after all.

thanks so much for the advice and replies. I am going to take her to my vet and see what they say. I am going to try to get money back to pay for a 'manual shave and inspection" if they can't find a scar, I "might" have her put under. It's only a small 5mm cut to get in there to check, and she needs a dental and she has back dew claws that are dangerously long, so if i have her put under I can have a dental done and her dew claws cut (not removed)......

Will talk to the vet about the pro's and con's though.

Yeah, if you're going to have the dental done, you might as well have them check while she's under. I just hate putting any animal through the anesthesia without a very good reason.

agreed, and to that end, if she is going under, I am getting everything she could possibily need done, done! so that we don't have to do it again.... unless of course she isn't spay.

Did you ever find out if she was spayed or not b4 she went back into foster?