Calories in food

Swnie is going on a diet. I bought some calorie control canned food from the vet (her recommendation) for him to try. The ingredients are junky in my not expert opinion, so I don't really want him to have this as his only food. He has just had his checkup / blood tests and he's otherwise healthy, just overweight. I can barely read the label on this can, but it looks like it is 640 Kcal ME/lg. What does that mean? I want to find some other foods that are high potein, low cal if I can to at least have some good food options to offer him. I've already found some that are similar in the guaranteed analysis, I'm just not sure about the calorie part.

With obligate carnivores, as I understand it, there are actually two parts to the calorie question. (Winn Feline Health Blog: Weight Loss and Diet in Cats)

The first and most important is the source of the calories. As obligate carnivores, cats evolved to process protein for their energy needs, and they are extremely good at utilizing every bit of that protein. Conversely, they are unable to properly process or convert non-meat-based products (such as fruits, vegetables, grains, etc.) into energy, so these products get stored as fat or deposited in the litter box. (This is one of the primary reasons dry foods - no matter how grain-free or "high-quality" they may be - cause obesity in cats; they are, for an obligate carnivore, low in bio-available energy, so the cat must eat more to get its daily energy requirement.)

To put it succinctly, the higher the meat-based protein content, the more efficiently the cat can process the food. Since nearly all wet foods have a more bio-available protein composition than kibble, cats shifted from dry to wet almost invariably lose weight.

The second part, of course, is the calorie count itself, but until the food is provided in a format (wet, or raw) that can be utilized fully by the cat, looking at these numbers doesn't have much meaning in a weight-loss context. In fact, a cat can technically eat more wet food and still lose weight, since more of the food is utilized and less of it converted to fat. (This seldom happens, however, since the cat's energy needs are satisfied with less wet/raw foods than kibble.)

My recommendation - it's less important to decipher the caloric content of a certain food than it is to look for the highest meat-based-protein (and lowest grain, fruit, veggie based) wet foods (or raw) you can find/afford/the cat will eat.

640 Kcal ME/lg... I am going to figure a typo an lg is lb ? 640 calories per lb ... 640 calories per 16 oz ... which breaks down to 40 calories per oz or 120 for 3oz or 240 for 6 oz
Meat is the most easily digested and throughly digested food for a cat ... they do break down many grains well but if you research you will find NO need for grains ... Veggies are a debatable item
I would suggest sitting down with the vet and figuring out HOW much is currently being eaten... vs what amount should be consumed

Here is a AWESOME chart for your research of comparable foods

http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html

Originally Posted by sharky

640 Kcal ME/lg... I am going to figure a typo an lg is lb ? 640 calories per lb ... 640 calories per 16 oz ... which breaks down to 40 calories per oz or 120 for 3oz or 240 for 6 oz
Meat is the most easily digested and throughly digested food for a cat ... they do break down many grains well but if you research you will find NO need for grains ... Veggies are a debatable item
I would suggest sitting down with the vet and figuring out HOW much is currently being eaten... vs what amount should be consumed

Here is a AWESOME chart for your research of comparable foods

http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html

Click to expand...

I got my magnifying glass out and it's actually 640 Kcal ME/kg

Thank you for the chart, very interesting,

I did talk with her about how much he is eating, and she recommended he should be eating 6 oz wet per day, and that I could give him 1 1/2 cans a day if he was still hungry for awhile and scale it back gradually.

The problem is not the wet food, it's going to be weaning him off the dry that I've been putting down at night for Cindy because she likes to graze, and also that DH puts down during the day against my wishes.

We'll see how this goes. Swanie is very food oriented.

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

With obligate carnivores, as I understand it, there are actually two parts to the calorie question. (Winn Feline Health Blog: Weight Loss and Diet in Cats)

The first and most important is the source of the calories. As obligate carnivores, cats evolved to process protein for their energy needs, and they are extremely good at utilizing every bit of that protein. Conversely, they are unable to properly process or convert non-meat-based products (such as fruits, vegetables, grains, etc.) into energy, so these products get stored as fat or deposited in the litter box. (This is one of the primary reasons dry foods - no matter how grain-free or "high-quality" they may be - cause obesity in cats; they are, for an obligate carnivore, low in bio-available energy, so the cat must eat more to get its daily energy requirement.)

To put it succinctly, the higher the meat-based protein content, the more efficiently the cat can process the food. Since nearly all wet foods have a more bio-available protein composition than kibble, cats shifted from dry to wet almost invariably lose weight.

The second part, of course, is the calorie count itself, but until the food is provided in a format (wet, or raw) that can be utilized fully by the cat, looking at these numbers doesn't have much meaning in a weight-loss context. In fact, a cat can technically eat more wet food and still lose weight, since more of the food is utilized and less of it converted to fat. (This seldom happens, however, since the cat's energy needs are satisfied with less wet/raw foods than kibble.)

My recommendation - it's less important to decipher the caloric content of a certain food than it is to look for the highest meat-based-protein (and lowest grain, fruit, veggie based) wet foods (or raw) you can find/afford/the cat will eat.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the excellent information and link. It sounds like my goal should be to switch them both to wet only, but that is going to be a major challenge with Cindy who doesn't like many wet foods and likes to graze on the dry food.

then those figures are all wrong ...

kg= 2.2 lb s

35.274 oz in a kg

roughly 18 calories per oz

18* 6 =108 calories

there is a chart for dry also

http://binkyspage.tripod.com/dryfood.html

Originally Posted by Misty8723

Thank you for the excellent information and link. It sounds like my goal should be to switch them both to wet only, but that is going to be a major challenge with Cindy who doesn't like many wet foods and likes to graze on the dry food.

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It's tough, for sure. Kibble is a totally species-inappropriate food for a cat and to "encourage" them to eat it, manufacturers spray all kinds of flavorful nonsense on the pieces, the usual end result of which is cats who won't eat anything else.

You should see the effort in switching them to raw; fresh raw meat has almost no odor at all and cats are often like, "Hey, you waiting for me to starve? Put some food on my plate, will ya'!" as a 2 oz chunk of chicken breast sits in front of them.

This article has some info you might find helpful: Transitioning Dry Food Addicts to Canned.

Good luck and keep us informed!

Lets remember that this kitty is under vet care
Your vet has given you the information and suggested treatment based on your catâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s signs, symptoms and history. Not following the vetâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s advice could be detrimental to your catâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s health. Please discuss any potential changes in treatment with your vet first. This can usually be done over a phone call if the cat has already been seen about the same problem. If you are not happy with your vetâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s advice, or suggested treatment, get a second veterinary opinion, do not only take advice you have received online from people who do not have your catâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s full medical history.

Diet is a form of treatment

Originally Posted by sharky

Lets remember that this kitty is under vet care
Your vet has given you the information and suggested treatment based on your catâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s signs, symptoms and history. Not following the vetâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s advice could be detrimental to your catâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s health. Please discuss any potential changes in treatment with your vet first. This can usually be done over a phone call if the cat has already been seen about the same problem. If you are not happy with your vetâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s advice, or suggested treatment, get a second veterinary opinion, do not only take advice you have received online from people who do not have your catâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s full medical history.

Diet is a form of treatment

Click to expand...

Trust me, I don't take advice from any one person / source

I've done a lot of my own research over the last couple years, with the help of this site as well as other sources, including my vet. She's the one who told me to feed him canned food. I'm the one giving him the dry, because it's convenient for me to put some down at night so Cindy isn't waking me up 2 or 3 times to get her food. The Vet also told me to feed him Royal Canin, but I don't like the ingredients. There is no meat in it, just by-products. I bought 2 cans to see if he would eat it, then I'm going to call and ask her what else she would recommend. She told me there were other alternatives she could talk to me about, but she was pressed for time yesterday. So I said I would try this and get back to her. He's healthy, just needs to lose some weight, so I don't have a problem using other foods that I consider having better ingredients, as long as they're within the range of the food she is recommending. I'm going by the list of guaranteed analysis and now trying with the calorie part of it thanks to your help in deciphering it, Sharky.

Originally Posted by Misty8723

I've already found some that are similar in the guaranteed analysis, I'm just not sure about the calorie part.

Click to expand...

List the ones you've found so far if you need help figuring out calories and any info on those foods (such as palatability). Sometimes it can be difficult figuring calories (and carbs) because the min and max listed on the can aren't always exactly what is in the food - you may need to contact the company and ask them(or see if your vet can get those answers for you).
Then make a list with as much info as you can and take it to your vet - discuss the issues you have with the food she recommended.

Hopefully some good communication can be established with your vet - if not, as posted, find someone who will work with you! You'll need as much support as you can get from your vet because there are risks involved. Maybe ask if she's willing to use email?


Cindy's food will be a problem. There's a couple options you could try. Make it very difficult for Swanie to get into her food or look into schedule feeding. Even a grazer can adapt with some time and patience on your part.
I'm currently facing a similar problem - a food loving cat that wants to eat my kittens' food (which he can't have to begin with). For now a box with a kitten size hole keeps him out.

Always feel free to update on your progress with Swanie. I hope he can safely start getting to a healthy kitty weight soon.

Thanks! I definitely appreciate the help I was looking mainly at foods that were higher in protein and supposedly calorie controlled. All of them I've looked at so far have higher fat content and higher calories (I guess) than the Royal Canin. I've also noticed that most cans recommend feeding 6 ounces per 8 pounds of body weight. The Vet is recommending 6 ounces for a 20 pound cat. Is that enough for him? The vet doesn't want him to lose any more than 1 pound a month at most. I'm going to call the vet next week to see if I can get more time with her (make an appointment if I have to), and ask her that, as well as the other options she says she can tell me about. I'd like to find a variety of foods so he doesn't get bored Right now he's used to a rotation of different brands / flavors of canned food.

The food I got from the Vet is Royal Canine High Protein Calorie Control CC
Moisture (max) 87%
Crude Protein (min) 6.5%
Crude Fat (min) 1.8%
Crude Fiber (max) \t1%
Calories 640 Kcal ME/kg

Other foods I've looked at:

Innova Lower Fat
Moisture (max) 77.47
Crude Protein (min) 10.09
Crude Fat (min) 4.9
Ash 2.34
Crude Fiber (max) \t0.26
Calories 972 kcal/kg

Natural Balance Reduced Calorie
Crude Protein 8.0% minimum
Crude Fat 4.0% minimum
Crude Fiber 1.5% maximum
Moisture 78.0% maximum
Taurine 0.05% minimum
Calories - can't find exact, 15% fewer than regular Ultra

Chicken Soup Lite
Moisture max \t78
Crude Protein min \t10
Crude Fat min \t3
Ash max \t2.5
Crude Fiber max \t1
Calories - 949 kcal/kg (148 kcal/can)

As a comparions, this is one of the brands that I'm currently feeding him
Wellness Chicken (not diet)
Protein: 12.0%
Fat: 11.0%
Fiber: 0.27%
Met. Energy (Kcal/kg): 1,411
Ash: 1.9%
Magnesium: 0.02%
Taurine: 0.15%
Calories: 120 kcal/can (3 oz can)

I am glad your going to talk with the vet even if it means making an appt .. Be sure to explain what you need to the receptionist ( most vets have call times built into the day)..

6 oz for a 20 lb cat is a bit light but what should Swanie weigh>?

Hmmmm, I wonder if you might be stressing yourself unnecessarily, Misty. Just replacing the kibble in Swanie's diet with a high-protein canned is likely to have the impact you are looking for, without cutting back on calories or fat. And don't forget, cats actually need a surprising amount of fat in their diets (mice average about 25% fat, rats even more: Nutrient Composition of Whole Vertebrate Prey).

Originally Posted by sharky

I am glad your going to talk with the vet even if it means making an appt .. Be sure to explain what you need to the receptionist ( most vets have call times built into the day)..

6 oz for a 20 lb cat is a bit light but what should Swanie weigh>?

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The vet wouldn't commit to a weight. She said it was more important to judge in ways other than what the scale says. Swanie is a solid cat, even when he wasn't overweight. She doesn't want him to lose more than a pound a month max. I've never been able to pin her down on an actual weight, and I've asked her many, many times.

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

Hmmmm, I wonder if you might be stressing yourself unnecessarily, Misty. Just replacing the kibble in Swanie's diet with a high-protein canned is likely to have the impact you are looking for, without cutting back on calories or fat. And don't forget, cats actually need a surprising amount of fat in their diets (mice average about 25% fat, rats even more: Nutrient Composition of Whole Vertebrate Prey).

Click to expand...

Oh I'm sure you're right, I do tend to overanalyze things, especially when it comes to my cats I would really rather stick with "regular" food. I know the diet food for people is not all that it's cracked up to be, I'm sure the same is true for pet food.