Tough love - upsetting a friend

Guys, I may have lost a friend but right now I cannot apologise for what I did.
Some background - a friend here has just had an arterial bypass in his neck and has been told he needs a heart bypass too as his arteries are totally blocked after a lifetime of hard smoking and drinking. He is in constant pain and has no energy, though slightly better after the first op. The doctor has said he must never drink or smoke again and he will not be treated if that happens.

I spent the afternoon today with his partner, shopping and visiting another friend and in the course of chat she told me that she is petrified because he has said he does not care and wants to die, and is back drinking brandy. She really is at her wits end and does not know what to do. When I went back to their place this evening with her (she invited me for dinner) he opened a new bottle of brandy and had two very large glasses. I told him he was an idiot and if he could not think of himself he should think of her - not just that he might die of a stroke or heart attack at any moment, but that he might be disabled for 20 years if the attack did not kill him. He shrugged it off.

So I got up, took the brandy bottle and poured it down the sink. I started to open a second bottle that he had bought this afternoon, but he stopped me and took the bottle. So I left, first kissing my girl friend goodbye. He has since sent me an email saying I am no longer welcome in their house, though I do not take it too seriously as he was obviously drunk when he wrote it.

I was admittedly very angry when I did what I did, but I cannot say sorry. I have had dealings with alcoholics before and I know how it affects families and relationships. I also know no-one can stop them until they want to stop, so what I did was an empty gesture. I am sorry if I have lost one, maybe two friends, though I think she will not hold it against me but will see it as some kind of support.

That is all I can say - probably I was wrong, it was impulsive, but we all do stupid things sometimes.

You were not wrong. You are a good friend and it's admirable what you did.

hmm. I disagree. I think it was completely wrong, and not her place to make those decisions.

I'd have done the same thing he did if someone tried enforcing their ideas/actions/permissions in my home. Make a suggestion? sure. take it upon yourself to take action on ME in MY home? don't think so.

You did it because you care. Honestly, it would probably have a much bigger impact if his partner did it.

I have compassion for people with addictions having been a smoker for a million years. And Gary had a problem with alcohol - a big one. But if you love someone, you find the support you need to beat the addiction and find a place of respect for yourself, even if you can't get to a place of loving yourself. You're right - if you can't find the motivation to do it for yourself, do it for the one you love.

I hope your actions help your friend do what she needs to do to best help her partner.

Sounds like you did the right thing. She sounds like she is an enabler to his drinking problem.

I have a friend whose husband was both a heavy smoker and an alcoholic. He did pass away several years ago from cancer (diagnosed at a terminal stage). He didn't work and she kept tight control over any money but he still found ways to buy liquor and cigarettes.
He had alcohol treatment a couple of times but she couldn't force him to continue to get treatment. It was a sad situation as he wasn't a good husband at all. He wasn't happy so he made sure his wife (my friend) wasn't going to be totally happy either. Sad to say but his life ended the way it did due to his lack of control over his habits.

She did have a happy ending though as she met another man a couple of years after her husbands passing and he treats her like a queen.

Originally Posted by fastnoc

hmm. I disagree. I think it was completely wrong, and not her place to make those decisions.

I'd have done the same thing he did if someone tried enforcing their ideas/actions/permissions in my home. Make a suggestion? sure. take it upon yourself to take action on ME in MY home? don't think so.

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Look, I totally understand what you are going through... I know how hard it must be...
Now it is the time for you to take a step back, take a breath, and realize that your fried will most likely die... And if he does... all the good memories will be replaced with this bad moment?
This IMHO is very trivial compared with what he is going through. And again I know what you are saying.... But it is his life, and his time with you is soooo precious....
Try hard to forgive him if you can, and find deep in your heart the understanding.... The fact of the matter is that his decisions might kill him and there might not be much time left - and you might not forgive yourself for the time lost... hang in there...

I would have done to the same thing..and maybe it is wrong. But you is it because you care and feel powerless to help your friends.

He will realize that you did it for good reason and will likely forgive you once he thinks it through.

I'm sure you just gave her allot of confidence in dealing with this situation that she didn't have before.

I think you did the right thing.

DH is a recovering alcoholic. He hasn't had a drink now since July 31 and he hasn't had a cigarette since Aug 5th. (he does do the chewing tobacco, yuck). It had to be his choice. I admit, I bought it for him since I didn't want to deal with his whining and pouting. The reason he quit was he gave his life to Jesus who gave him the strength to quit. Since DH quit smoking, he hasn't had to use his asthma inhaler at all! He is not even tempted to drink anymore, but we do stay away from places would cause him to be tempted.

Your friend is going to have to make the decision to quit drinking and smoking. I will be praying that he does before he loses his life because of it.

I can't fault you for what you did, Jenny. You say that you've dealt with alcoholics in the past and once you've been exposed to alcoholism it changes everything. You're right in thinking that this probaby will not mean a thing to him, but may to his partner.

The hallmark of an addict is their selfishness, they do not think of what their addiction is doing to others, how is it destroying their lives as well. Usually an alcoholic will need to be on the brink of losing everything before they see what is happening, sometimes it is too late. I really and truly hope that your friend wakes up before it is too late

I don't think I would have had the guts to do it myself but I applaud you for caring for your friend enough to support her. As has been said, addicts are very selfish and will do anything to get what they want. I hope your friend finds the strength to stand up to her husband.

Bless you Jenny.

The most I can say is be there for his partner. Help her to get a financial nest egg. When I was living with my dad's drinking, we threw away gallons of alcohol, but it never made any difference. He was in a place where it was too painful to be sober and eventually, it did his heart in. The alcoholic has to realize something has to change.

So help those around the person be strong and take care of themselves. He might straighten himself out in response.

It's pretty hard to sit back and watch someone destroy themself when you know it's also emotionally destroying their partner - a friend - as well

What you did was both good and bad.

Perhaps you will make an impact on his sober mind.

And just maybe your actions will give his partner the courage to stand up to him.

You did what you did, it is wrong in a way but you did it out of good intentions. You really need to be careful though, it came off as if you were judging him and you have to remember- it's his body and his decisions and I am sure his decision to do this knowing he may die was not an easy one. I doubt the things you said to him were new and something he hadn't thought about before, so you saying it really doesn't help- only makes thing worse because it makes him feel even about it.

I know why you did it, but I have to agree with fastnoc and carolinalima.

While you care about him and your friend and want what is best for both of them, and what he is putting your friend through is tearing you apart, it really is none of your business.

He is an adult and knows the consequences. However, he is in denial. He's also an alcoholic who doesn't think he has a problem.

Until he admits to having an alcohol problem and asks for help, there is nothing anyone can do to help him. He needs to take the first step to helping himself. It can't be forced onto him.

And until he comes to grips with the fact that he has serious heart disease, he is not open to changing his ways. Denial is a horrible thing, but it's also a stage of grieving, so is depression.

He needs to work this out on his own, no matter how hard it is for you to sit back and watch him self destruct.

All you can do is be there as a friend to your friend and to him. Offer a shoulder and an ear, but keep your opinions about the situation to yourself, or you really will lose friends, and good friends are hard to come by. Your girl friend needs you and will need you even more if something happens to him.

Originally Posted by Yosemite

I don't think I would have had the guts to do it myself but I applaud you for caring for your friend enough to support her. As has been said, addicts are very selfish and will do anything to get what they want. I hope your friend finds the strength to stand up to her husband.

Bless you Jenny.

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I couldn't have said it better.

You are a brave woman, and with any luck at all, your actions will embolden your friend to take a stronger stand against what her husband is doing, too. I think you did a great thing!

Well done Jenny, I like others think you were brave and did a good thing, maybe when he is sober it may just make him think.

Thank you all for your opinions, which I value greatly. It was an on the spur of the moment thing, because I had spent the afternoon with his partner, and knew her worries. I was just so angry. It is all complicated by the fact that they are not actually married and under French law that means that if he dies, she will have to pay 60% tax on his half of their house, regardless of any will. She does not have the money and could be made homeless. The reason they are not married is too complicated to go into here. And he knows this of course, and admits his problem and hers, and will not do anything about it. The doctors already told him he is a stroke waiting to happen. He is now refusing further surgery as he says he wants to die (he is 54 by the way).

I have exchanged emails this morning with his partner, and she is very sorry about his reaction, but says none of it will affect her friendship with me. He will get over it, but no, I agree with most of you that it will have no effect.