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post #31 of 47
Ferris I do love your Maus.
That sphynx is nice and she beat Wrinkles in every ring last week except the last ring and that was only because Dee Dee left before that ring was judged.
post #32 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjh27 View Post
Hi,

I love cats and am interested in cats in general. I don't think its fair to tell people they are not allowed to be critical and ask questions about breeds or breeding practices.

You don't have to like my oppinions, but please don't tell me I'm not entitled to them.


regards,

Christine

but that does not entitle you to insult people with them. Tact does make a difference when expressing your opinion. These are member's cats you are talking about.
post #33 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by WellingtonCats View Post

Cats that live together in pairs + usually bite each others whiskers off and it doesn't do them ANY harm.

That white Persian does NOT have an eye problem. Those eyes are fine.

If you have never owned a white Persian then I think you need to seriously watch what you say.

Like I said Christine cats usually (maybe I should have used the word often) bite each others whiskers off. I've got an 18 month old that bites her 12 month old sisters whiskers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisCat View Post
Wow, we are really off topic here!

I've never heard of a cat passing away due to their bald whisker pads or stained under-eye area. In my opinion, we're talking about cosmetic issues and not health issues. Health issues imply something chronically debilitating.
Sorry about being OT. I just don't like it when someone shares an interesting link for the breeders/showers alike and then someone says that people who are breeding sphynx are practicing cruelty - that's bound to get peoples backs up. Likewise the White Persians.
post #34 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjh27 View Post
Hi,

I love cats and am interested in cats in general. I don't think its fair to tell people they are not allowed to be critical and ask questions about breeds or breeding practices.

You don't have to like my oppinions, but please don't tell me I'm not entitled to them.


regards,

Christine
Yes you are entitled to think that the Sphynx breeders and the Persian breeders (like me) are being "cruel" and breeding unhealthy animals. Just as WE are entitled to disagree with you and be defensive about the breeds we are passionate about and have spent 1,000's of dollars on.
post #35 of 47
You really made me mad.
How can you post bs about sphynx when you do not know the breed.
Ferris sorry for being ot also.
I will stick up for my breed of cat.
post #36 of 47
Oh my, that shaded persian with a huge paw is just adorable!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjh27 View Post
In Germany breeding such cats is seen as a form of animal cruelty (same thing with the cat in photo 35).

regards,

christine
Really? Have you ever heard of the breed called German Rex?
post #37 of 47
On topic - My HHP was judged by that man in the blue shirt. He gave us a 2nd Best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjh27 View Post
Grown up cats do not bite off each others whiskers in my experiance
I have 3 cats and they have broken/chewed off whiskers a lot of the time. No harm done, just caused by playing and grooming one another.

Quote:
For me your cat in that photo quite cleary has an eye problem- why else is there so much brown discolouring around the eyes? A healthy cat does not look like this.

If you think I'm not getting the point then please explain to me where this discoulouring is coming from, it's not typicall for white domestic cats.
As someone who has owned several Persians, the tear staining is very normal. Due to the shape of their skull the eyes tend to drain externally. There is no health issue with tear staining.
post #38 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernGlow View Post
Really? Have you ever heard of the breed called German Rex?
Yes, I know this breed. They too are seen as a form of animal cruilty by many, but as none was on the photos of this particular cat show I didn't mention them. They too have issues with their whiskers.

And yes, Sphynx cats are also bred in Germany, but that doesn't mean its OK to breed cats that do not have their whiskers as sensors. Whiskers aren't just some sort of whim of mother nature, they serve a purpose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteforest View Post

As someone who has owned several Persians, the tear staining is very normal. Due to the shape of their skull the eyes tend to drain externally. There is no health issue with tear staining.
Thank you for answering my question. So why breed with such a skull shape in the first place?

EDIT:

http://www.pictures-of-cats.org/Clog...-of-a-Cat.html

"If the tear duct is defective it is not clogged. I know of only one case where the tear duct of a cat is inherently defective through breeding and that is in the flat faced Persian cat and the Himalayan cat (a pointed Persian cat). Tear duct overflow in these cats is a medical condition brought about by irresponsible breeding. These cat breeds should not have been brought into existence. The doll face Persian does not suffer from the same condition because the face has a normal anatomy. Please see Cat Health Problems and Persian Health Problems."

EDIT 2: http://www.worldofdani.com/healthpro...ersiansen2.htm

"
Excessive tearing (Tear duct overflow / Epiphora)
Epiphora is an abnormal overflow of tears down the face that results from either obstruction of tear drainage through the nasolacrimal (tear duct) system or overproduction of tears that overwhelms the normal drainage system. The overproduction of tears is most often a reflex, activated to expel irritating material from the surface of the eye or when significant irritation develops inside the eye. Although uncommon, epiphora may also result from overactive lacrimal (tear) glands and be unassociated with any source of irritation.
Tears are continuously produced on the eye in most animals. With each blink of the eyelids, tears are pushed along the outer aspect of the eyelids towards the nose.

While tears are typically colorless, they can dry to a dark red-brown-black crust, especially in the cat. Chronic tearing can also result in a brown to rust-colored staining of the hair around the eyes and face of animals. This is believed to be due to porphyrins or other pigment-like substances present in the tears.

Tears that spill over onto the face can also be irritating to the skin of the face. Moisture and bacterial build-up in that area aggravates this irritation.Epiphora can be caused by numerous conditions.Inefficient drainage of tears from partial closure of the drainage openings, increased kinking of the drainage duct in the nose, or wicking of tears onto hairs present in the crease where the eyelids meet. This condition is most common in the flat faced, long-haired breeds of cats, particularly the Persian and Himalayan breeds.

As a result of their short and concave underlying facial bone structure, the lacrimal sac and the nasolacrimal duct of most Persian cats is blocked at the lacrimal puncta, causing an excessive coagulation of debris and an overflow of tears from the lacrimal glands: Excessive tearing is a common characteristic of Persian cats and is caused by abnormal drainage of tears and may result in epiphora (Faculty of Cornell Feline Health Center 1997). The two lacrimal puncta are the small openings to the canaliculi (ducts) leading to the lacrimal sac. The nasolacrimal duct drains the sac into the nose. The ducts of the lacrimal system are already very small in felines and the facial conformation of extremely short-nosed, large-eyed cats, namely Persians, is the single most common cause of occlusion (blockage) of the lacrimal system and resulting abnormal drainage of tears. Consequently, because of the epiphora and the blocked lacrimal system, Persian cats suffer from chronic eye infections. Bacteria build up in the obstructed lacrimal passages and thrive on the debris deposited from the coagulated tears, inducing chronic conjunctivitis, with characteristic symptoms such as a brown, mucus-like discharge from the eye, blinking, and an exposed third eyelid. In severe cases, the conjunctiva is swollen red (Faculty of Cornell Feline Health Center 1997). It is important to note, however, that conjunctivitis is not painful (Carlson and Giffin 1995)."



Why risk all of this purely for looks? Surely the skull shape doesn't have to be like this?



regards,

Christine
post #39 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjh27 View Post
And yes, Sphynx cats are also bred in Germany, but that doesn't mean its OK to breed cats that do not have their whiskers as sensors. Whiskers aren't just some sort of whim of mother nature, they serve a purpose.

De-clawing is seen as a form of animal cruilty in the USA but it still takes part. So animal lovers on this site and others campaing to make de-clawing illegal and to educate other cat lovers.
You have got to be joking... How can you even try to make this comparison?
Comparing breeding Sphynx in the same level of cruelty of declawing? Are you serious?
By definition, animal cruelty is the infliction of suffering or harm to animals, other than humans, for purposes other than self-defense. Now, explain to me how breeding Sphynx can fit into this category? Because I can clearly see how declawing does, but breeding Sphynxs? PLEASE!
post #40 of 47
And all the problems you just listed can be avoided by the owner simply caring for their cat properly, i.e. wiping the eye area regularly. I can honestly say I never had a Persian get an eye infection from excessive tearing.
post #41 of 47
Sounds like you have a whisker obcession! Whiskers or lack thereof is NOT cruelty to a cat - cats can be born with long, short, curled or no whiskers and it really does no harm to the cat if they are short, curled or lacking.

Please stop with the "cruelty" kick you are on. You voiced your opinion on not liking cats with non-normal whiskers as well as your "idea" what is cruel regarding Persians and eyes. We get it.

Now (being polite about it) - BACK OFF on those that like these breeds and see nothing wrong with breeding these cats.

There are breeds out there that I don't agree with breeding (my opinion, my choice) but I don't sit there and critisize those that like them or want to breed them!
post #42 of 47
I am so sick of you complaining about sphynx.
Also quit comparing sphynx to declawing.
I am against declawing and so are the breeders.
They are fine WITHOUT WHISKERS!!!
post #43 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinalima View Post
You have got to be joking... How can you even try to make this comparison?
Comparing breeding Sphynx in the same level of cruelty of declawing? Are you serious?
By definition, animal cruelty is the infliction of suffering or harm to animals, other than humans, for purposes other than self-defense. Now, explain to me how breeding Sphynx can fit into this category? Because I can clearly see how declawing does, but breeding Sphynxs? PLEASE!
What I was trying to say is that cat lovers will not always agree on what is acceptable and what is not, so the fact that the German Rex is bred in Germany doesn't mean that there is no controversy about this breed in Germany.

I probably should have worded it differently, so I'll edit my post.

regards,

Christine
post #44 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteforest View Post
And all the problems you just listed can be avoided by the owner simply caring for their cat properly, i.e. wiping the eye area regularly. I can honestly say I never had a Persian get an eye infection from excessive tearing.

So this is not very common? It still doesn't answer my question if it is really necessary to breed the skull shape in such a way.

regards,

Christine
post #45 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteforest View Post

I have 3 cats and they have broken/chewed off whiskers a lot of the time. No harm done, just caused by playing and grooming one another.
.
And these are grown ups and not foolish kittens? Would you mind posting a few photos of your cats missing their whiskers? It would interest me to which extent your cats nibble off each others whiskers as mine don't

Christine
post #46 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjh27 View Post
So this is not very common? It still doesn't answer my question if it is really necessary to bred the skull shape in such a way.

regards,

Christine
Christine, you were told to back off.. what is your problem? really? is there anyone forcing you to buy one Persian or Sphynx cat? This is a cat lover community, and these are cats that are loved in here... so please... you stated your point a lot of times already over and over and over again.
Persian cats are the number one breed in the US, so guess what, you can be there until you are blue in the face, but you are not going to change the facts, but will just keep pissing off a bunch of people. what is your point?
need to breed? Nobody needs anything besides eating breathing sleeping drinking, or the basic human needs. Do you need to discuss this? No, for that matter. Nobody needs anything, really. So, please... Let's just go back to the topic that was a whole bunch more pleasant, or just drop this discussion.
post #47 of 47
This thread has gotten completely off topic, and I believe everyone has said their piece, and will have to agree to disagree, so I will now close the thread.
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