want my two cats to mate but....

Hi everyone,

I have been learning a lot from this site and really appreciate people here who answered my questions!

Well, I and my boyfriend both loved our two cats, 9-month-old Coffee and 6-month-old Mei Mei (Chinese name for little sister). I am living in Hawaii but am moving to the mainland for internship next year. Therefore, we have been thinking about letting them mate so that I get to keep two cats and he keeps two also. Because Coffee and Mei Mei are so special to us, we think their kittens must be as cute as them. Until now, I am still indecisive about whether or not I should neuter them or have them mate. I am not quite sure about whether neutering them is more beneficial or not since my first cat 10 years ago died of 1 year's urinary track infection, which symptoms occurred after I neutered him when he was 7 months old. I don't know if my impression was right but do not want to lose my cat anymore.

The problem is, my coffee started wanting to go out more and have been meowing to my ears that he wants to go out. I don't know if he is too bored to be indoor or his biological clock has been ticking. However, He showed no other problem behavior, such as aggression or marking territory in my house. I bought the da bird, which occupied him for a few days and now he only played with it half-minded and still wanted to go out.

My question is... what can I do to help Coffee not to be so bored with his life and.. should I neuter them???

Appreciate your help

There are so many cats that need homes, no one on this site would recommend that cats be breed unless you were a breeder mating purebred cats to preserve the genetic line. Moggies really should not be bred. There are litterally millions of homeless cats, shelters need good adopters, and this is a site dedicated to cat welfare.

In fact, Rule #2 of TCS states

2. Please make sure to spay and neuter your cats. Unless you are a professional breeder and your cat is part of a professional breeding program, please educate yourself to the importance of spaying and neutering by the time your cat is 4-6 months old.

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http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15184

Please read this thread! Since being neutered...

The UTI your cat experienced is completely unrelated to being neutered. He would have died from the infection because it went untreated too long. When male cats have crystals (usually from the diet and/or genetic pre-disposition combined with diet) or are prone to UTIs, their urethras can block. Male cats have much thinner urethras than females, which is why it is so much more serious for males. If the urethra blocks, the urine cannot pass, and it backs up into the kidneys, creating toxicity that kills them. When caught in time, it is very treatable. But it only takes 24-48 hours for the blockage to kill them.

And there's lots to do to keep indoor cats happy! Get wand toys and play with them. Put bird feeders outside the windows. Hide treats around the house. Get a laser toy and get them running. Create as much vertical space for them as possible so they can live in the 3D world they were meant to!

Please don't let them mate, there really is no need for it. There are so many lovely cats in the world that get euthanised every day due to overpopulation, there is no reason to add to it.

Do you have the funds to keep your female cat healthy throughout her pregnancy? What if she needs an emergency c section because she is having trouble giving birth? Do you have money set aside for that? What if she dies during labour, which can definitely happen - could you live with yourself for killing your cat just to get some cute kittens? What if the kittens are sick? What if she has 6 kittens? Can you and your boyfriend keep all the kittens plus the parents? Can you make sure the kittens are vaccinated, desexed, dewormed etc. before you give them away if you need to do so?

It's not just a case of "my cats are cute, so I want 2 of their kittens". There is a LOT involved in raising kittens, and having done so for multiple feral/stray litters I can tell you it's very expensive, and can be very heartbreaking.

If you want 2 more cats, go and adopt them from the local humane society. And please, please get your cats fixed ASAP. It is so much better for their health in the long run - your male cat may start spraying soon, which is smelly and hard to control. Cats don't NEED to mate, the process of going into heat is very stressful on them.

Originally Posted by uluagirl

The problem is, my coffee started wanting to go out more and have been meowing to my ears that he wants to go out. I don't know if he is too bored to be indoor or his biological clock has been ticking. However, He showed no other problem behavior, such as aggression or marking territory in my house. I bought the da bird, which occupied him for a few days and now he only played with it half-minded and still wanted to go out.

My question is... what can I do to help Coffee not to be so bored with his life and.. should I neuter them???

Appreciate your help

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This is only going to get worst if you don't neuter/spay them, and be ready for the spraying too...
Also there is a lot health risks that you will be avoiding by spying/neutering - some types of cancer is just one of them.

Fyi - about 6 million cats are euthanized every year because of overpopulation, and by breeding your cats, you will be contributing to this problem... Instead, why not go to the shelter and save 2 lives instead? There are plenty of kittens there!

Originally Posted by carolinalima

Instead, why not go to the shelter and save 2 lives instead? There are plenty of kittens there!

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An excellent suggestion!!!!!!

Hi
I appreciate everyone's reply. I have already made an appointment with the vet to talk more and plan to apply for the neuter now certificates in honolulu to neuter them.

The reasons why I ponder about having them mate are more complex than they appear. Part of them are probably silly. Mei mei was adopted when she was one month old. She at first attempted to suck milk from Coffee and now she sucked her own nipples every day. I thought that maybe if she got a chance to become a mommy, perhaps she would be able to compensate for the loss of her mommy and the need for sucking. Second, Coffee and Mei mei are ireplaceable for us. Since I and my boyfriend are going on separate ways in the near future, I was hoping that he gets to keep two kittens that will help him overcome the loss of Coffee and mei mei. He asked me to keep Coffee and mei mei together given they are so attached to each other. Third, when I lost my first cat, who died of kidney failure despite one year of intensive treatment for UTI from four vets, I hoped that he wasn't neutered so that I could continue to take care of his kitten who might have the same lovely personality as him. Fourth, I used to have two Persian cats mated back in Taiwan. They never showed any spraying, aggressive, wanting-to-go out behavior but just mated and had 4 lovely kittens. I wonder why my cats didn't behave like what everyone is talking here in the USA. Vaccination and neutering were not regular practices there and my indoor cats were all happy and healthy.

However, I also agree that neutering brings much more benefits than harm to my cats. I understand neutering will reduce health problems. Here I can't take the risks for Coffee to spray and roam out. I also can't afford expenses of mei mei's pregnancy and keeping the kittens. I spent $200 just to bring the healthy Coffee for one examination and vaccinations.

Indeed, we would adopt two more kittens in the future. We got Coffee and Mei mei from the craiglist and I am sure there are precious ones out there for us to adopt.

I would definatly have them fixed.
There really is no need of them mating.
There are thousands of homeless cats and kittens out there already.

Having Coffee neutered will calm him down and he won't bawl to go outside as much as he does now.

Unless these cats are show quality purebred cats - both of them need to be neutered and spayed and never bred for any reason/excuse. There are enough kittens/cats in the shelter now from those that let the cats breed because they are cute, pretty, etc.

Sorry but you really won't find anyone to support your breeding mixed breed cats no matter what excuse you come up with. They will be a lot healthier and happier when they are done.

The UTI had nothing to do with your cat being neutered. Its been found that an all dry diet can trigger many of the UTI cases (especially with male cats).

for your decision - I do hope you come through and really do neuter them.
You already gave yourself all the answers... you can't afford the risks or expenses... in addition to all other reasons we are talking about it here...

Please remember: you are breeding your cats, not cloning them... They will be different cats, with different personalities than the kitties you have now...
IMHO you are romanticizing a situation that doesn't exist in the cat world... they are cats, not humans...

About you and your boyfriend getting attached: I promise you, that if you get two cats from the shelter, you will get attached and love them just the same.

Think about how you came to love these kitties... They are not the same cats you lost, related in any way, etc - and here you are completely in love with them. Why do you think this is not going to happen again?

When I got Bugsy, I though the same thing - I will never love him like I love Lucky.... I even felt sooo guilty! Was I ever wrong? I LOVE this boy, just like it, and he was not even a kitty when he came - he was already two.

I would let your boyfriend get situated, then tell him to go to the shelter and let a kitty chose him.

Just a note:

Just because 2 cats mate does not mean that their offspring will look/act anything like them. I had a feral black momma who had 4 kittens (orange, grey/white, tabby, & one siamese colored) and I believe the daddy was a solid grey. Momma & daddy were wild, kittens varied from being love bugs to tolerating humans.

I am glad you did decide to get them fixed, thanks!

Again. I appreciate everyone here to respond to my questions. I already said that I have made an appointment with the vet to NEUTER my cats and have actually purchased the Neuter Now certificate from the Humane Society.

However, I still want to say that I believe there is people like me out there who are strongly attached to their cats and have to sort out painful feelings, memories, situations, the pros and cons to make a decision for their cats. I don't think at all that my feelings that I wish to have my beloved cats' kittens are Excuses and invalid. If I am the one who is irresponsible for my cats, I will not take courage to ask questions and share how I truly feel in this forum.

After my first post, I have already thought maybe this is not the place for me to share all my concerns about neutering. I was not here to seek others' support to mate my cats but perhaps understanding and assurance that this is the best decision for them and for us. I still posted my sorrow for my first cat and the grief that my boyfriend will not see Coffee and Mei mei again in my second post with the hope that this is a safe place where I won't be put down easily just because there is only one way to solve the problem. It make me feel that perhaps for others neutering their cats is simply the easiest decision for them and that I am pretty stupid and irresponsible to ask such kind of question in the forum.

I guess the safest way to do for me is just to view posts rather than asking questions from now on.

I hope you change your mind. Sorry if you feel we came down hard on you about neuter and spay, but realize that many of us have been cat owners for a long long time and have seen/heard all the excuses people give to breed their cats.

I've had many cats that I had wished I could have had a litter just because, but a responsible owner doesn't use these excuses to breed. If you want to go into breeding it has to be on a serious note to IMPROVE the cats - not because you love your cat, etc.

We are here to help everyone. No reason to just say you won't post again if you have questions. Many of us probably were like you at one time and not as well informed about things. But we all learn. Don't run away because we came down harder on you then you would have liked.

Don't take offense to what was posted. There are a few topics that people here are passionate about - the over population of cats is one (another is declawing, be warned, don't go there )

This is (partially) because many posters here are deeply involved in cat rescues and see cats every day who don't have a hope of finding a loving home, and who are put to sleep. It is truely heart breaking. I would recommend visiting a kill shelter and seeing all the animals who will be destroyed if you ever feel like you want to have kittens from your own cats.

The poster white cat lover will post in the crossing the bridge section on occasion about animals who were put to sleep at the shelter where she works. Very heart breaking. I'm seriously tearing up even just looking for these threads to post here.

The faces behind the euthanasia statistics - http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=199292

I died homeless and alone - http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=192489

When you have killed hundreds of kitties because there aren't enough homes - there are many times that compassion fails you.

Think of it this way - when parents have children, they are not exactly the same as the parents. If you were to mate your two kitties - you would have more cats who are not the same as their parents. If you have room in your heart & home for a few more kitties - go visit shelters & see who picks you. You have the power to stop the overpopulation problem, two kitties at a time - it is wonderful that you are doing your part.

The one thing we can all relate to here is how much you love your kitties. This is a great place to share that, that's for sure! If you stick around and explore a little, I'm sure you'll find it is, actually, a very caring and supportive community.

...It's just that many of us have also gotten involved in cat rescue, and the heartbreak is beyond what I'm sure you can imagine if you're even considering mating non-pure-bred cats. Didn't mean to come down hard on you. But please take it in context. Too many of us have seen people looking for advice on how to handle pregnancy problems, or kittens dying, or we've had kittens die in our arms rushing to the vet from a litter no one wanted to begin with... many of us work in shelters, and watch kitties go unadopted for years - or worse yet, be euthanized inside of a week because the shelter is full and no no-kill shelters have room to take them... or see people dump kittens from cats they should have had spayed, or return a cat because it was scratching their furniture or they redid the apartment and its color no longer matches their walls... obviously you considered mating your cats out of love for them, and that speaks volumes to your love of your kitties... but for those of us involved with rescue, all we see are two kitties that could be adopted that need homes, and we know that breeding two cats of no particular background means that they may look nothing like the two being mated, and we know that their personalities may be nothing like the two you mated... so it defeats the entire purpose. But it is our knowledge and our experiences that inform our emotions on the issue.

So while you ask us to take a step back and be gentler in respecting your point of view and emotions, I also ask you to take a step back, and consider the other side of it.

TCS is actually a wonderful place to learn about all of these things, and I hope you'll be able to join us in our passion for our love of ALL cats.

Originally Posted by uluagirl

However, I still want to say that I believe there is people like me out there who are strongly attached to their cats and have to sort out painful feelings, memories, situations, the pros and cons to make a decision for their cats. I don't think at all that my feelings that I wish to have my beloved cats' kittens are Excuses and invalid. If I am the one who is irresponsible for my cats, I will not take courage to ask questions and share how I truly feel in this forum.

After my first post, I have already thought maybe this is not the place for me to share all my concerns about neutering. I was not here to seek others' support to mate my cats but perhaps understanding and assurance that this is the best decision for them and for us. I still posted my sorrow for my first cat and the grief that my boyfriend will not see Coffee and Mei mei again in my second post with the hope that this is a safe place where I won't be put down easily just because there is only one way to solve the problem. It make me feel that perhaps for others neutering their cats is simply the easiest decision for them and that I am pretty stupid and irresponsible to ask such kind of question in the forum.

I guess the safest way to do for me is just to view posts rather than asking questions from now on.

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You came and asked for information on neutering. You were given that information and advised that this site does not support folks breeding non-pedigree cats and even then only if the breeders are registered breeders and the valid reasons why those feelings exist here.

Now you are upset with the information you received. Nobody is "coming down on you", they are merely trying to advise you and help you to not breed 2 non-pedigree cats when there are thousands of homeless animals already in shelters. There is also very much a health issue with non-neutered animals, pyometa in females and testicular cancer in males, not to mention that unneutered males most likely will start spraying. Just because your previous cats did not spray does not mean this cat will not.

You will not find anyone here to support you in breeding your cats and if that upsets you, that is unfortunate. You can go away mad or you can stay and do what the rest of us have done and learn more and more about these wonderful animals.

Personality and color will not really factor in on the litter. They will all be different from their parents, after all that is the goal of sexual reproduction--to make offspring that is different than the adults to allow for more diversity. Are you exactly like your parents? Sure, you have some qualities that you share, but they aren't necessarily good.

Why are you so against getting different cats? You could be missing out on a cat with a wonderful personality that just needs some tender love and care.

UTIs are not caused by neutering. The only reason a male may be a tad more susceptible than a female is because his urethra is smaller, which is a part of his anatomy uneffected by neutering. A neuter is a very non-invasive surgery with minimal severity. In my 6 years of working at a vet office and currently in vet school, I have never seen bad results from a neutered pet. True, with any surgery there are complications possible, but they are VERY rare and I've never seen any, and neither have my coworkers or fellow students.

Preserving the pedigree is the only real reason anyone should breed their pets, dog or cat, or if they are a show breed, which again is only for purebred cats. We are by no means calling you an irresponsible pet owner. You came asking a question, and we answered. I can tell you that any vet you go to, or any pet animal-related person is going to urge you to fix them and not breed them if you want more kittens. I know it's something you don't want to here, but we all have to deal with that sometimes.

Fiddledee, perhaps you missed several of the OP's posts. She's not at all against it and has made arrangements to have the kitties neutered. She was just looking for more understanding about considering the mating in the first place.

I sincerely want to say that I really appreciate your honest thoughts and I do take your suggestion into consideration. The plan is in actions. My cats are going to be neutered this Sat. And I have no second doubt about that.

It is because your honest inputs that push me to make a quick decision. I overlooked the fact that I couldn't afford the expenses of keeping all the kitten and that I can't control others who will love some of my kittens forever if I need to give them away. I realize my emotioal needs may result in serious consequences for my cats, their kittens, and other people. I won't be able to forgive myself if my cats' kitten end up having to be in the shelter and put to death.

I respect those of you who work for rescuing the animals and have to witness cats put to death due to overpopulation problem. My boyfriend is strongly motivated to adopt two more after I leave. We are excited about the opportunities to enjoy two more different personalities in the future.

Sorry for taking things personally. I was sad that it appears my love for my cat, whatever other grief feelings, and maybe silly desire to want to preserve to me the perfect personality-look-intelligence genes of my cats, were labeled as excuses. I was simply wanting to put whatever concerns on the table so the experienced people can help me sort out myths and make the best decision for my cat.

I still think it would be the most helpful for new inexperienced people to have room to raise their concerns and share feelings that may be disagreeable to the forum members. People who are willing to honestly present whatever concerns and feelings they have are less likely to cause problems if their questions are addressed.

Anyway, still want to say thank you for spending your time and efforts to answer my questions. There is no hard feeling and I enjoy learning from all of you. Thanks

Good luck and I hope that your kittie's appointments go well!