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Limbaugh attacks Obama with phony thesis

post #1 of 34
10/28/09 at 8:38am
Thread Starter 
Didn't Dan Rather get fired for doing almost exactly this same thing?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...apologize.html
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post #2 of 34
10/28/09 at 9:21am
Isn't this what Limbaugh does for a living? Spew lies out there on the hopes that conservatives will believe them and blindly pass them on?

http://mediamatters.org/research/200902190019
http://thesop.org/politics/2009/03/0...just-more-lies

He does have a following of people who seem to think that what he says is true.
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post #3 of 34
10/28/09 at 9:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogmom View Post
Isn't this what Limbaugh does for a living? Spew lies out there on the hopes that conservatives will believe them and blindly pass them on?
Same could be said for a lot of the left wing media and liberals

I seen something on the news yesterday that questioned how often the facts of stories were looked into when the newspapers, especially tabloids, were given tips and the general consensus was not often.

Quote:
An obscure blogger, Michael Leeden, mistakenly picked it BYup, reporting the satirical post as fact, and then Limbaugh ran with it on his national radio show Friday.
He quoted what he thought was reported as fact and should have therefore been fact checked - to me its a non issue. I really dont care what Obama wrote on at school, its more a matter of what he is doing now, whether it matches his political views then, now or not at all
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post #4 of 34
10/28/09 at 10:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by icklemiss21 View Post
Same could be said for a lot of the left wing media and liberals
I am not aware of any examples which are on a par with this or with the example that I posted regarding the economic recovery bill. Perhaps you could oblige?
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post #5 of 34
10/28/09 at 10:07am
I thought we were talking about the OP reference, but a false statement is a false statement regardless of what it is about

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...ntertainmentV2
This is the news story I referred to in my other post, did anyone get hurt by the fake story? not really. Does it make it any better that they are stars instead of politicians? nope.

The fact is that there are fake and untrue news stories all the time, you just have to choose who you listen to. I see Rush the same way I see tabloid papers, not worth paying attention to, they could be reporting on WW3 with footage of the Prime Minister / President saying we are at war and I would still change to another station to see if it was true
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post #6 of 34
10/28/09 at 10:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
Didn't Dan Rather get fired for doing almost exactly this same thing?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...apologize.html
I wasn't aware that Rush Limbaugh IS a journalist, comparable to Dan Rather.
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post #7 of 34
10/28/09 at 11:32am
Perhaps if Barack Obama would consent to the release of his Columbia University thesis, we could all see for ourselves. But the fact of the matter is, his thesis has never been released and I have read that no one at Columbia that was enrolled in their Political Science program, who graduated in 1983 as Barack did, even remembers Barack Obama attending there.


http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/columbiathesis.asp
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post #8 of 34
10/28/09 at 11:49am
Evidently Columbia remembers him as having attended.
Their alumni section had a page devoted to him in January of 2005 when he became a senator.
http://www.college.columbia.edu/cct_...an05/cover.php

And evidently Columbia didn't even require a "senior thesis," which doesn't surprise me. I wasn't required to write one either.

Quote:
The elusive Obama "thesis," it seems, stems from in an inadvertent slip of the tongue by one of Obama's former professors.

In 2007, when Obama was serving in the Senate and gearing up for the first presidential primaries and caucuses, New York Times reporter Janny Scott assembled a story about Obama's years in New York, including his time as an undergraduate at Columbia. She managed to track down Michael Baron, who had taught a senior seminar on international politics and American policy for eight students, including Obama, in 1983.

Baron, now a digital media executive for a Sarasota, Fla.-based company, mistakenly used the term "thesis" when he spoke with the Times reporter, which sent reporters scurrying to find it.

"Journalists began hounding Columbia University for copies of the musty document," wrote Jim Popkin, an NBC News senior investigative producer in a July 2008 blog posting. "Conservative bloggers began wondering if the young Obama had written a no-nukes screed that he might come to regret. And David Bossie, the former congressional investigator and 'right-wing hit man,' as one newspaper described him, took out classified newspaper ads in Columbia University’s newspaper and the Chicago Tribune in March searching for the term paper."

But Obama's paper was nowhere to be found. While the paper was the fruit of a year-long course, it's not something the university would have saved. "It was not like a master's or doctoral thesis that gets collected and put on microfiche," Baron told PolitiFact.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...eamed-blogger/
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post #9 of 34
10/28/09 at 12:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogmom View Post
Evidently Columbia remembers him as having attended.
Their alumni section had a page devoted to him in January of 2005 when he became a senator.
http://www.college.columbia.edu/cct_...an05/cover.php

And evidently Columbia didn't even require a "senior thesis," which doesn't surprise me. I wasn't required to write one either.


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...eamed-blogger/
I was under the impression a thesis was required for a graduate degree.
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post #10 of 34
10/28/09 at 3:20pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
I wasn't aware that Rush Limbaugh IS a journalist, comparable to Dan Rather.
How does that change the fact that he protested strongly about someone doing the same thing he has just done himself? A bit hypocritical, eh?

If a career thief and a crooked policeman are both caught stealing, does the policeman get a free pass because stealing isn't his profession? No, it's worse for him, because he supposedly stands against what the thief stands for. Limbaugh, being a self styled defender of "truth?", is just like that thieving policeman...a hypocrite of high order.
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post #11 of 34
10/28/09 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
I was under the impression a thesis was required for a graduate degree.
In general yes, but not for an undergraduate degree. Obama got his B.A. from Columbia. This whole fuss is over a "senior thesis" which to me is a glorified term paper.
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post #12 of 34
10/28/09 at 3:30pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Perhaps if Barack Obama would consent to the release of his Columbia University thesis, we could all see for ourselves. But the fact of the matter is, his thesis has never been released and I have read that no one at Columbia that was enrolled in their Political Science program, who graduated in 1983 as Barack did, even remembers Barack Obama attending there.


http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/columbiathesis.asp
How does this have the least bearing on Limbaugh being desperate enough for fodder to present a phony thesis as fact on his show?

Or, are you saying that because he doesn't have the real one (which he has no right to, anyway), he is then free to use a fake one?
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post #13 of 34
10/28/09 at 5:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogmom View Post
In general yes, but not for an undergraduate degree. Obama got his B.A. from Columbia. This whole fuss is over a "senior thesis" which to me is a glorified term paper.
Quote:
His campaign would not release his transcripts, and it says it does not have a copy of his thesis, which dealt with Soviet nuclear disarmament and which has drawn intense interest.
Regardless of whether they required one, he says he did one
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post #14 of 34
10/28/09 at 5:42pm
I do not know what the requirements were for graduation with a BA from Columbia in 1983, but I do remember very well that unlike today, it was a BIG DEAL to make copies of something for archival purposes. Back then, people typically wrote their theses by hand and paid someone (usually the wife of a gradaute student) a few bucks to type it neatly. It doesn't make sense to me that Columbia would retain archival copies of senior theses; PhD and Masters theses yes. Nowadays anyone can make a lowly lab report look like a magazine article thanks to word processing, and they can take it to Staples and get 50 copies bound nicely and professionally for a few hundred $$, but in 1983 that was unthinkable. I was honored by the fact that my PhD thesis at Stanford written in 1983 was deemed worthy of being made available as 40 copies instead of the usual ten. Times have changed!
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post #15 of 34
10/28/09 at 7:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogmom View Post
Isn't this what Limbaugh does for a living? Spew lies out there on the hopes that conservatives will believe them and blindly pass them on?

http://mediamatters.org/research/200902190019
http://thesop.org/politics/2009/03/0...just-more-lies

He does have a following of people who seem to think that what he says is true.
Your links did not show me any lies. One was just an opinion piece of Rush and the other plainly showed Barack said what Rush said he said. No big deal.
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post #16 of 34
10/28/09 at 7:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
How does that change the fact that he protested strongly about someone doing the same thing he has just done himself? A bit hypocritical, eh?

If a career thief and a crooked policeman are both caught stealing, does the policeman get a free pass because stealing isn't his profession? No, it's worse for him, because he supposedly stands against what the thief stands for. Limbaugh, being a self styled defender of "truth?", is just like that thieving policeman...a hypocrite of high order.
Hey, you are the one that compared Rush to Dan Rather, not me.

Rush has a long way to go before he catched up to many politicians in the "lie department."
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post #17 of 34
10/28/09 at 7:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogmom View Post
I do not know what the requirements were for graduation with a BA from Columbia in 1983, but I do remember very well that unlike today, it was a BIG DEAL to make copies of something for archival purposes. Back then, people typically wrote their theses by hand and paid someone (usually the wife of a gradaute student) a few bucks to type it neatly. It doesn't make sense to me that Columbia would retain archival copies of senior theses; PhD and Masters theses yes. Nowadays anyone can make a lowly lab report look like a magazine article thanks to word processing, and they can take it to Staples and get 50 copies bound nicely and professionally for a few hundred $$, but in 1983 that was unthinkable. I was honored by the fact that my PhD thesis at Stanford written in 1983 was deemed worthy of being made available as 40 copies instead of the usual ten. Times have changed!
If I remember correctly Hillary Clinton is about 15 years older than Barack and she released hers. And hers was pretty controversial, being about Saul Alinskey and all I think it was, but still she released it.

And back in 1983 they had typewriters and copying stores, I remember, I was there.
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post #18 of 34
10/28/09 at 9:02pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Hey, you are the one that compared Rush to Dan Rather, not me.

Rush has a long way to go before he catched up to many politicians in the "lie department."
Uh, no, I compared the situation to Dan Rather's. And he was severely berated by Limbaugh. Now Limbaugh does the same thing, but he thinks that because it's him, well of course, that's different. That's what hypocracy is all about.

So, you object to what you thought was him being compared to a journalist, but immediately turn around and compare him to politicians.
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post #19 of 34
10/29/09 at 12:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
Didn't Dan Rather get fired for doing almost exactly this same thing?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...apologize.html
No, Dan got fired for stating as fact something that he knew, or should have known, was false. This was particularly true in that it was his own staff who gave him the information, supposedly having vetted it themselves.

I understand Limbaugh found out the thesis was fake while he was still on the air, and told his listeners that it was fake.

Should he have run with it when it first came to him? Probably not, but many in the talk arena feel they have to go with anything that comes to them to avoid being scooped.

As others have pointed out, the refusal of the White House to release any number of such records makes them ripe for being hoaxed about. After all, Bush released his service records, even when some of them were none too flattering.
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post #20 of 34
10/29/09 at 12:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogmom View Post
I am not aware of any examples which are on a par with this or with the example that I posted regarding the economic recovery bill. Perhaps you could oblige?
Haven't listened much to Air America, have you?
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post #21 of 34
10/29/09 at 12:36am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
No, Dan got fired for stating as fact something that he knew, or should have known, was false. This was particularly true in that it was his own staff who gave him the information, supposedly having vetted it themselves.

I understand Limbaugh found out the thesis was fake while he was still on the air, and told his listeners that it was fake.

Should he have run with it when it first came to him? Probably not, but many in the talk arena feel they have to go with anything that comes to them to avoid being scooped.

As others have pointed out, the refusal of the White House to release any number of such records makes them ripe for being hoaxed about. After all, Bush released his service records, even when some of them were none too flattering.
BOTH...presenting phony documents obtained from outside sources as fact. BOTH...jumped the gun trying to get the scoop or be super-sleuther. BOTH...made fools of themselves, and. BOTH...admitted to the error ONCE they found out.

I'm having trouble seeing the difference here? Except for the part that ONE soundly condemned the other for being so irresponsible, yet jumped neck deep himself into that same swamp of irresponsibilty...but he thinks its ok. :
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post #22 of 34
10/29/09 at 2:33am
Again, Rush found out it was false and reported it right away. I was listening in the car at the time. In the report it mentioned Obama was in favor of "redistribution of wealth". Rush mentioned that even though the report was false, Obama himself said he was in favor of it when he spoke with Joe the Plummer. Didn't we all hear that? Rather went on and on about George Bush even in the face of mounting evidence it was a contrived report. Rush immediately acknowledged it was a fake report, not by him but by someone else. Rush is guilty of not checking the validity of the report. Rather made up his own report. Where is Rather now? Dan who?
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post #23 of 34
10/29/09 at 3:19am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by farleyv View Post
Again, Rush found out it was false and reported it right away. I was listening in the car at the time. In the report it mentioned Obama was in favor of "redistribution of wealth". Rush mentioned that even though the report was false, Obama himself said he was in favor of it when he spoke with Joe the Plummer. Didn't we all hear that? Rather went on and on about George Bush even in the face of mounting evidence it was a contrived report. Rush immediately acknowledged it was a fake report, not by him but by someone else. Rush is guilty of not checking the validity of the report. Rather made up his own report. Where is Rather now? Dan who?
Made up his own report? Really? You're sure of that?

How does the fact that one found out it was fake in a matter of hours, and the other over a matter of days, make it any different?
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post #24 of 34
10/29/09 at 4:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
Haven't listened much to Air America, have you?
No I haven't. Should I?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
If I remember correctly Hillary Clinton is about 15 years older than Barack and she released hers. And hers was pretty controversial, being about Saul Alinskey and all I think it was, but still she released it.

And back in 1983 they had typewriters and copying stores, I remember, I was there.
I was there and I remember it costing about $1400 to get bound copies of my PhD thesis in 1983. It's also possible to get framed prints made of what your child brings home from a coloring session in kindergarten, the question is: why would you want to? A "Senior Thesis" is something that is generally not worth copying and if it gets saved, probably gets stuffed into a box in the attic. To me the fact that Hillary Clinton saved and released hers says more about how highly she thinks of herself and where she did her undergraduate work than it does about anything else.

At any rate, the issue is that once again we have Rush caught red-handed and instead of being contrite, he is recalcitrant.
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post #25 of 34
10/29/09 at 5:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Your links did not show me any lies. One was just an opinion piece of Rush and the other plainly showed Barack said what Rush said he said. No big deal.
It was an opinion piece with facts, for example this one.
Quote:
As evidence of Limbaugh`s influence among both conservative and mainstream media, he was the first to unabashedly advance former New York Lt. Gov. Betsy McCaughey`s falsehood that a provision in the House-passed version of the economic recovery bill grants the government authority to monitor treatments " and make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate." This dubious claim was soon being parroted by several conservative media figures. Limbaugh took credit, saying I found it. I detailed it for you and now it`s all over the mainstream media. "
http://thesop.org/politics/2009/03/0...just-more-lies
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post #26 of 34
10/29/09 at 7:41am
Thread Starter 
As amusing as it is, all the spinning to cover for Limbaugh is really unnecessary. If you just want stories you can rage over and don't care that he doesn't fact check the info he's giving you, just say so. People will understand.
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post #27 of 34
10/29/09 at 11:38am
One big factual difference. Apparently, as soon as Limbaugh discovered it was false, he admitted it. I heard Rather just last week still denying that his report was false.
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post #28 of 34
10/29/09 at 2:53pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
One big factual difference. Apparently, as soon as Limbaugh discovered it was false, he admitted it. I heard Rather just last week still denying that his report was false.
So you really don't care if Limbaugh doesn't fact check his source material then?
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post #29 of 34
10/29/09 at 3:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
I was under the impression a thesis was required for a graduate degree.
I didn't have to write one either.
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post #30 of 34
10/29/09 at 6:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogmom View Post
It was an opinion piece with facts, for example this one.
http://thesop.org/politics/2009/03/0...just-more-lies
I don't understand, why would health care issues be in a "Economic Recovery Bill"
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