Declawing & behavior changes... let's dig deep!

frogmanjared

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I'm going to ask a question, and I don't want a ton of people yelling at me, just curious (I also think declawing is inhumane, as well as letting your cats outside-killing wildlife-) I have a very scientific mindset, and my question is... are there any studies that show a relationship between declawing and abrupt behavior changes? Like I said before, I'm against it, but I like to know if there's any evidence. Growing up I've met a lot of cats, many declawed and their owners never had problems, never actually heard of anyone having problems after the operation. I'm sure some cats do though, nothings perfect. It's just that everyone in their posts makes is sound like these problems are GUARANTEED with the territory. Can anybody lead me to research that has been done? Yep, I'm a nerd, I like to read biology books/journals in my free time!
 
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frogmanjared

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Good start, but 25 subjects doesn't constitute a solid study. Maybe there just hasn't been a really good study done on this, I'd like to see numbers in the thousands, broken down my gender, age among other things. Maybe I'll bring it up with one of my old college professors and see what they can dig up.
 
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frogmanjared

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You'd think that with as many cats that get declawed, they'd have done sufficient research to show the risks... guess they don't care if it's not human, or horse.
 

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I know your looking for scientific info, but I thought I'd throw in my two cents.. I have seen first hand the kind of behavior declawing can cause. My mother has had 2 decolawed cats. The first, very, very sweet little girl. Until she got spayed and declawed, that is. The problem is, cats use their claws as a defensive weapon, it is how they defend themselves from danger. When they lose their claws, they feel somewhat defenseless, not to mention, declawing can cause pain in their paws, that can last their whole lives. This can cause them to be nasty. With my moms first cat, after being declawed, she had major litterbox problems, and she was very mean. Even to my mom, her owner. She became a very emotionally unstable cat. When my mom put her up for adoption at the Humane Society (bcause of her LB issues), the vets could not get near her to examine her, therefore she couldn't be adopted. I believe she wouldnt have been adopted anyway because she didn't know how to be nice. They put her down, and I blame the declawing ENTIRELY. She was a sweet cat until my mom mutilated her. Then, my mom got another kitten, and I tried to educate her about declawing, and explained to her that I believe that is where her other cat got her issues from. I tried to tell her ways to teach the cat to scratch in proper places, bcause that is all she cares about really, her furniture and carpet. She wouldn't listen. She took her new kitten, who was sweet, and loving, and against my good advice, got her declawed. And, as with the other cat, you can't go near her. She is one of the nastiest cats I have ever met. She has the mindset of a feral. You cannot go near her. And it wasn't like that before her claws were taken out. She feels defenseless, therefore, she will not let anyone near her. I bet my mom wishes she would have listened to me. And if she ever gets another cat, I hope she remembers what I said, and doesn't destroy her catspaws and personality, because of her own selfishness.
 

strange_wings

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My theory is that if a particular cat is going to have behavioral issues, declawing will make it that much more likely. Just like how some people break under stress. And this is why you'll hear plenty of stories of cats who were fine - no biting or litter box issue.
 

icklemiss21

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In no way am I advocating declawing, I do consider it inhumane and Quincy will not be declawed but

Autumn was declawed by the shelter as her final chance (and as a no kill they are very understanding of 'cats in conflict' but she was starting to become a danger to volunteers). Within weeks of her declaw her personality was much nicer, she has never exhibited litterbox issues other than her OCD way of cleaning the box before using which she did before being declawed.

We have several declawed cats at the shelter at the moment, two that are 4 paw declawed. Two of them have issues, one is an overgroomer and one is nasty but her owner claims she had her declawed because she kept going for her. Not one of them have litterbox issues, but we have three cats who were not declawed with litterbox issues.

As far as scientific studies, the majority of them are done by one vet clinic or with small sample sizes. There is a recent study by the american association of feline practitioners which is the only wider scale study I have seen. It found that in most cases there was no medical or aggression reason for the declaw and did not recommend declawing unless for those cases.

Something to remember is that the majority of cats in shelters who are declawed and have issues were given up for those issues, few people spend the cost of a declaw and give them up and if its anything like our shelter, a declawed cat barely gets on the website before being adopted so you only see the ones sitting there that have issues and that many people who have declawed cats will not mention it due to the reaction they get from people
 

carolina

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Originally Posted by frogmanjared

Good start, but 25 subjects doesn't constitute a solid study. Maybe there just hasn't been a really good study done on this, I'd like to see numbers in the thousands, broken down my gender, age among other things. Maybe I'll bring it up with one of my old college professors and see what they can dig up.
Did you read the rest of this document? I don't think you did.... because if you had, you'd see the testimonials from the shelter directors and that accounts for thousands of cats. It will not be broken down by gender, age, bla bla bla, but it will give you a solid percentage.
ETA: Scroll down to "EVIDENCE from SHELTER WORKERS,
VETERINARIANS, & CAT CONSULTANTS"
 

icklemiss21

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Originally Posted by carolinalima

Did you read the rest of this document? I don't think you did.... because if you had, you'd see the testimonials from the shelter directors and that accounts for thousands of cats. It will not be broken down by gender, age, bla bla bla, but it will give you a solid percentage.
ETA: Scroll down to "EVIDENCE from SHELTER WORKERS,
VETERINARIANS, & CAT CONSULTANTS"
I have read the whole document several times but the problem remains that people have an agenda and I find it very hard to believe some of the statistics when I have my own to go by also.

As with anything, you can make a stat say what you want

Forget stats, if you want to see why not to declaw, watch a declaw surgery
http://www.pixiepets.com/files/declaw.htm
 

white cat lover

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I think you will never find reliable statistics, because every cat is an individual & will react to declawing differently.
 

cheylink

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Originally Posted by white cat lover

I think you will never find reliable statistics, because every cat is an individual & will react to declawing differently.
Not only this, which is a major factor, but the reason why they are being declawed and how they are cared for and treated after that.
If you think that declawing your cat who is a pain in your a** because they keep tearing up your favorite furniture, scratch up the carpet, and you don't have time to deal with it.....Well guess what?! Wrong reason to even think about inhumanely altering your pet! If you don't have the time to give them the attention they need, then you definitely don't have the time to insure a positive outcome. If your finger tips or nails were surgically removed, how would you feel? How would you feel if you had no choice?
It is sad to think that one needs scientific study, how many cats should be put through this study for you to see that it's inhumane?
 

lovemytrent

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I don't find the act of declawing humane in the large majority of circumstances, either, but I do have to say if we want to talk personal accounts, I have yet to see declawing cause negative behavior issues in cats.

My cat, for example, was declawed as a kitten. I was not the one to have her declawed - rather, I adopted her a few months ago and was told by her previous owner that she had been declawed.

Bree is the sweetest cat there is. Elusive, affectionate when she wants to be, complacent, and calm. When we groom her she doesn't get mean - just tries to play with the brush. When we bath her she complains a ton and tries to get away, but doesn't try to swat or bite. She doesn't bite, either, though she does swat at the dog when he gets way too close, which I would imagine many cats would do.

My friend also has a cat who was declawed as a kitten. Again, he is sweet and completely nonaggressive and very complacent. He is adventurous and has quite the sense of humor and loves to play with his toys and getting pets.

This isn't to say I agree with the act of declawing. The procedure itself is enough to make me blanch.

But I do have a question - does the act of declawing a kitten only cause behavioral affects in certain types of homes, such as homes that, say, have children who do not know how to properly respect a cat, and homes that have people who feel like they can treat a cat however they want because they won't get clawed?

I personally don't see a cat that was declawed as a kitten feeling immense stress and becoming aggressive if the cat was raised by a responsible family.

Again, I want to stress I don't agree with declawing. Just wanted opinions on this.
 

goldenkitty45

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While its not publishied, one of the BEST and most heartbreaking stories regarding declawing and behavior is Bea's story. This poor kitty was resuced by a member here (White Cat Lover). She can point you to her thread.

I cried so many times reading the updates, etc.

My first cat was declawed by my parents. While Mitten never really suffered physically (tho a little at first) or psychologically in his 13 yrs of life, I vowed never to do that to a cat again after reading and seeing other results.

I've seen many declawed cats that became biters and those with litter pan problems. Just about all the cats you see being dumped in shelters or places like craigslist are DECLAWED cats. Why? Because they have physical and psychological problems that the owners will not tell you about.

I don't need proof in writing as to why declawing is bad or what effects it has - I've seen it in person! That's enough "proof" for me.
 

strange_wings

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Originally Posted by LoveMyTrent

I personally don't see a cat that was declawed as a kitten feeling immense stress and becoming aggressive if the cat was raised by a responsible family.
It's tougher on adult cats that get declawed - but for either it is a painful procedure. Even with pain meds - anyone who's had surgery will tell you that pain meds can't stop the pain completely.

The problem is if the cat ends up with sensitive paws or arthritis later on. When cats are in pain, they can be grumpy - which may be where people are seeing the ones that are biters. Some cats can be sensitive to litter against their feet and won't use certain kinds.
And in the worst case scenario, claws grow back and through a paw pad.


But yes, you are right. If a cat is abused at all in it's home that won't help matters.

I don't see too many declawed cats in my area - most cats are indoor/outdoor. Two that I met were biters, the last two aren't. I can't remember if the first one's home made him that way, but he was a Siamese if that matters much. The second was declawed as an adult - the woman got it done because the cat attacked her (abusive) husband (the cat was trying to protect her, I might add). That cat was a grumpy biter who had arthritis. If you got near any of her feet she would bite hard enough to draw blood - no warning, she'd just bite.

The neighbor's two outdoor cats are front declawed. Both are sweet and goofy. They are a little mouthy but the neighbors have kids that play rough with them. The cats were put outside due to peeing on things.
 

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Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

While its not publishied, one of the BEST and most heartbreaking stories regarding declawing and behavior is Bea's story. This poor kitty was resuced by a member here (White Cat Lover). She can point you to her thread.

I cried so many times reading the updates, etc.

My first cat was declawed by my parents. While Mitten never really suffered physically (tho a little at first) or psychologically in his 13 yrs of life, I vowed never to do that to a cat again after reading and seeing other results.

I've seen many declawed cats that became biters and those with litter pan problems. Just about all the cats you see being dumped in shelters or places like craigslist are DECLAWED cats. Why? Because they have physical and psychological problems that the owners will not tell you about.

I don't need proof in writing as to why declawing is bad or what effects it has - I've seen it in person! That's enough "proof" for me.
It should only take one example, and another point, if declawing is the answer, why are so many declawed cats abandoned in shelters and listed on Craigslist? How many declawed dogs do you come by?
 

white cat lover

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Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

While its not publishied, one of the BEST and most heartbreaking stories regarding declawing and behavior is Bea's story. This poor kitty was resuced by a member here (White Cat Lover). She can point you to her thread.

I cried so many times reading the updates, etc.
Here is the primary thread on Bea.

She was a miserable, sour, biting cat. She may well have been a nice kitty at one point in time - but that cat is long gone. But we have no way to know - she was a stray, there was no history.
 

lovemytrent

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Originally Posted by strange_wings

It's tougher on adult cats that get declawed - but for either it is a painful procedure. Even with pain meds - anyone who's had surgery will tell you that pain meds can't stop the pain completely.

The problem is if the cat ends up with sensitive paws or arthritis later on. When cats are in pain, they can be grumpy - which may be where people are seeing the ones that are biters. Some cats can be sensitive to litter against their feet and won't use certain kinds.
And in the worst case scenario, claws grow back and through a paw pad.
I can only imagine how painful it is *winces*. I personally don't ever need any scientific or situational proof to convince me. The moment I heard about the procedure, I was convinced.

Do you (or anyone) have any information regarding declawing as a cause of arthritis? And why a cat would later on develop sensitive paws to a declawing that was done, say, 2 years earlier? I'm only curious because my current girl is declawed and hearing that makes me nervous. Of course, I will accomadate her appropriately no matter what happens, but would want to hear more on this.

Currently she has no problem with us handling her paws or with her litter box.

Also didn't know that about claws growing back later in. Wow.

Originally Posted by cheylink

why are so many declawed cats abandoned in shelters and listed on Craigslist?
I do have to admit that I've never ever seen a declawed cat on Craigslist for behavioral reasons. All were 2-4 year old cats who's family got laid off, family was moving, apartment changed pet policy, allergies, etc. Of course, they could be lying, but declawed cats at the humane society are greatly, greatly outnumbered by the cats that do have claws.

But that also means I could easily see why many people here would be convinced that declawing WAS okay. Many people are rather selfish in that they declaw a cat because they're too lazy to train it, and only proof convincing the person that the effects would have a negative effect on the owner could deter him/her.

Originally Posted by cheylink

How many declawed dogs do you come by?
Many, actually. A large number of dogs have their dewclaws removed at birth, making them, "declawed".


But on a more curious note, what do you mean by this statement? Dogs hardly use furniture as scratching posts (with their claws, at least. Scratching posts for "itchy teeth" are another matter!).
 

strange_wings

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Originally Posted by LoveMyTrent

Do you (or anyone) have any information regarding declawing as a cause of arthritis? And why a cat would later on develop sensitive paws to a declawing that was done, say, 2 years earlier?
I've read it on several sites and have seen a study or two - but it's been many years and a couple of computers ago so I don't have those bookmarks (and maybe even the sites are gone now?).
Basically when you remove part of the toes from a cat's feet you change how they must walk. Declawed cats have a much more flat footed step than clawed cats do - normal cats walk on their toes. Change in posture (just like with humans) can cause weight to distribute differently on joints.
I also remember reading that the very act of reaching up to scratch on a scratching post helps cats stretch and keep muscles strengthened. I've seen it recommended that people get a scratching post even for their declawed cats to paw and scent mark at and to encourage stretching (I think that could be covered by getting a cat tree - something most cats enjoy).


With the sensitivity it has to due with just having had surgery. A year later and the scars from the surgery I had still have some pain and sensitivity to them - sometimes I can't tolerate clothing brushing passed them. I see no reason why scar tissue wouldn't be painful or sensitive in a cat, especially in an area that had to heal while the cat had to walk on it..

For your kitty. Generally those who may have sensitivity feet do best with a finer "softer" litters. Your cat may not like pellet litters or regular non-scoopable clay as well - for example. As long as you use a nice clumping litter your cat should be ok with it.
 

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I suppose the more on-point equivalent of de-clawing in dogs would be having their teeth removed. Since dogs cause more trouble with their teeth than their claws. Although if you have hardwood floors you might disagree about that!

The truth is that cats are considered to be second-class compared to dogs. Very few vets would ever do an elective de-claw or tooth removal on a dog, and some won't do elective de-barking/ear cropping/tail docking either. Yet so many of these same vets PUSH de-claws on cat owners, or just do them without explaining the options.

In human amputees, sometimes they have "phantom pain" in the amputated limb/s. I don't know if this happens in animals or if it's largely a human psychiatric issue. But that would explain why some cats seem to have sensitive paws after de-clawing.

Most of the owner-surrender cats (MOST are strays or from people who never take their cats to see a vet at all, but I mean the ones that were ostensibly cared for at some point) at the local shelters are de-clawed. I have no idea why (I have theories...), but that's how it is around here.

A lot of farm cats are de-clawed, too... of course nobody would de-claw a farm cat, so that means they're drop-offs from town people. And, of all the de-clawed cats I know, ONE is kept indoors-only. Which is seriously wrong; they're just helpless when their claws are cut out.
 

lovemytrent

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Originally Posted by strange_wings

I've read it on several sites and have seen a study or two - but it's been many years and a couple of computers ago so I don't have those bookmarks (and maybe even the sites are gone now?).
Basically when you remove part of the toes from a cat's feet you change how they must walk. Declawed cats have a much more flat footed step than clawed cats do - normal cats walk on their toes. Change in posture (just like with humans) can cause weight to distribute differently on joints.
I also remember reading that the very act of reaching up to scratch on a scratching post helps cats stretch and keep muscles strengthened. I've seen it recommended that people get a scratching post even for their declawed cats to paw and scent mark at and to encourage stretching (I think that could be covered by getting a cat tree - something most cats enjoy).


With the sensitivity it has to due with just having had surgery. A year later and the scars from the surgery I had still have some pain and sensitivity to them - sometimes I can't tolerate clothing brushing passed them. I see no reason why scar tissue wouldn't be painful or sensitive in a cat, especially in an area that had to heal while the cat had to walk on it..

For your kitty. Generally those who may have sensitivity feet do best with a finer "softer" litters. Your cat may not like pellet litters or regular non-scoopable clay as well - for example. As long as you use a nice clumping litter your cat should be ok with it.
Thank you for the extremely informative post!

Bree does use clumping litter and doesn't have a problem with it. I actually wasn't even aware there were other kinds! (New cat slave, remember!)

She actually really enjoys "scratching" thins with her paws. She stretches up on the side of my bed from the floor to scratch, and on the suitcases in my closet (or shall I say, her closet?). She does it daily and I see no point in redirecting her if she doesn't do damage, so I just let her do it. Good to hear that it may benefit her.

Originally Posted by Willowy

I suppose the more on-point equivalent of de-clawing in dogs would be having their teeth removed. Since dogs cause more trouble with their teeth than their claws. Although if you have hardwood floors you might disagree about that!
*sigh* Hardwood floors, as well as leather couches and leather seats in cars!

Originally Posted by Willowy

The truth is that cats are considered to be second-class compared to dogs. Very few vets would ever do an elective de-claw or tooth removal on a dog, and some won't do elective de-barking/ear cropping/tail docking either. Yet so many of these same vets PUSH de-claws on cat owners, or just do them without explaining the options.
Well, to be fair, very few vets would ever "de-teeth" a cat, if any, and there really can't be too many families asking for a vet to declaw their dogs.

Originally Posted by Willowy

In human amputees, sometimes they have "phantom pain" in the amputated limb/s. I don't know if this happens in animals or if it's largely a human psychiatric issue. But that would explain why some cats seem to have sensitive paws after de-clawing.
That's actually an interesting thought. I do understand that psychologists theorize that the phantom limb syndrome (not always necessarily a pain, but also often a tingling feeling) is created because of the location of the areas in the brain that are assigned to dictate the functions of certain limbs. For example, the area in your brain that senses your right cheek being touched is right next to the area in your brain that senses your right arm being touched. So, if a man who's right arm was amputated shaves his right cheek, he may experience a tingling feeling in his amputated right arm because the area in his brain that dictates his right arm is being unused, so it "merges" with the area of his brain that is his right cheek.

This I learned in psychology class last year, so I may very well be summarizing it incorrectly. Anyone who knows more on psychology than I do (large majority of the people, I'm sure) is welcomed to correct me


Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that if a cat's brain exhibits the same behaviors our brains do (which may or may not be the case), then they may in fact feel phantom pains.


Originally Posted by Willowy

Most of the owner-surrender cats (MOST are strays or from people who never take their cats to see a vet at all, but I mean the ones that were ostensibly cared for at some point) at the local shelters are de-clawed. I have no idea why (I have theories...), but that's how it is around here.

A lot of farm cats are de-clawed, too... of course nobody would de-claw a farm cat, so that means they're drop-offs from town people. And, of all the de-clawed cats I know, ONE is kept indoors-only. Which is seriously wrong; they're just helpless when their claws are cut out.
I guess where you live plays a huge factor. Out of, say 20 cats in the shelter, maybe 2 or 3 are declawed here. At least, from my prior experience as a volunteer at the shelter. Same on Craigslist. Out of the 20 advertised cats for rehoming, only 1-3 are declawed. I have also literally never known a declawed cat to be an outside cat. In fact, even Craigslist posts require that their declawed cats go to homes where they are indoor only cats. Our areas are polar opposites!

I think everyone on this forum can easily agree that declawing is wrong, especially when it comes to an older cat (aka not a kitten). I don't know what kind of a person could understand the type of procedure declawing is, and still have it done to their cat because they don't want claws to be an "inconvenience".

The big question I personally had was declawing as a direct cause of behavioral issues vs. declawed cats being inappropriately treated and raised which leads to behavioral issues. I think strange_wings answered it really well for me.
 
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