Declawing & behavior changes... let's dig deep!

IMO the reason you don't see a decalwed cat being placed for behavior problems (biting/litter pan) is that the person knows if they put that down no one will adopt the cat. Why should they want your inheriated problem - one you caused by declawing?

So they make up other excuses of "I'm moving and can't take her", or "we are having a baby", etc. While SOME of those reasons may be legit, IMO most are just another excuse to hide the real reason. And really the reasons people give are excuses - you don't have to give up a pet when having a baby. You don't give up a pet because you are moving, etc.

Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

So they make up other excuses of "I'm moving and can't take her", or "we are having a baby", etc. While SOME of those reasons may be legit, IMO most are just another excuse to hide the real reason. And really the reasons people give are excuses - you don't have to give up a pet when having a baby. You don't give up a pet because you are moving, etc.

Click to expand...

You would be surprised what people have given up cats for and they are honestly cats with no agression or other issues.
I spent one Christmas between anger and tears after working Christmas Eve at the shelter where a woman came in with 4 beautiful cats, all orange tabby (some with white) who wanted to surrender them because she was getting her kids new kittens for Christmas. All of them were under 18 months old and adorable, all spayed / neutered except the youngest who was 4 months (vets prefer to do them at 5-6 months here)

The children were sitting in the snow outside crying their hearts out saying they didnt want kittens for Christmas and loved their big kittens and that they never wanted another Christmas present again. They held onto those carriers so hard, the love they felt for those cats was not faked.

How that woman could do that to her kids or the cats I will never know but it showed me that people will give up cats for absolutely no reason.

We had a beautiful black longhair physically thrown at us at the reception desk one day because 'he is a pain in the ' the guy took wanted to keep the carrier because its worth money. That cat went to one of our local pet stores who showcase the cats for us and the staff fell in love and he is now a store cat. He doesnt open the bags of food, he greets everyone with purrs and cuddles - perfect cat.

I would say very few of them are excuses on the cats we get into the shelter, other than them being excuses for the sorry state of humanity on the people involved. The few declawed cats we have taken in with issues, the owners have been very honest about as they said that the cat would be best without children in the home etc (always a red flag for us to ask more questions, declawed or not)

Originally Posted by white cat lover

I think you will never find reliable statistics, because every cat is an individual & will react to declawing differently.

Click to expand...

I agree.

then, add to that the individual personalities of the caregivers and any statistic provided would be mind blowing.

... and, like icklemiss21 said in one of the other posts - if there's an agenda, then the stats get slanted towards proving that agenda.

frogmanjared - guess you will have to write your own study and then let us know what you've found - of course, without an Agenda!

Originally Posted by icklemiss21

You would be surprised what people have given up cats for and they are honestly cats with no agression or other issues.
I spent one Christmas between anger and tears after working Christmas Eve at the shelter where a woman came in with 4 beautiful cats, all orange tabby (some with white) who wanted to surrender them because she was getting her kids new kittens for Christmas. All of them were under 18 months old and adorable, all spayed / neutered except the youngest who was 4 months (vets prefer to do them at 5-6 months here)

The children were sitting in the snow outside crying their hearts out saying they didnt want kittens for Christmas and loved their big kittens and that they never wanted another Christmas present again. They held onto those carriers so hard, the love they felt for those cats was not faked.

How that woman could do that to her kids or the cats I will never know but it showed me that people will give up cats for absolutely no reason.

Click to expand...

I am constantly amazed by people. That is just horrible. I worked at a shelter for a few years, and I know what you mean about reasons for giving up cats. I think the worst I ever heard was "He just isn't fun enough".

To the OP, my experience was that just as many cats with claws came in with litterbox issues as declawed cats. They would get checked for urinary tract infections, and often times it was just that. Sometimes it was the litter (type or how clean the previous owner kept it). And other times, not terribly common, was a behavioral issue causing the peeing. In fact, most people I dealt with would rather declaw a kitten than adopt an adult already declawed because they "read on the internet" that declawed cats in shelter bite/have litter box problems. It got pretty frustrating.

I have had 3 cats I rescued that were front declawed by previous owners. Only 1 has had claw regrowth, he also has pretty significant arthritis (he's 12 yrs old). None had litter box problems. The 12 yr old has always been quick to bite, but he's easily overstimulated and that's usually the cause. The biggest thing I have noticed with my declawed cats compared to the kitten we adopted last year (who has her claws and isn't a kitten anymore) is my declawed cats don't have as good of balance as Lola. The guys are klutzy compared to her. She rarely falls, but the guys have had some bad spills over the years. These days we have steps for everything since they are getting up there in age.

Edit: I'm not a pro declaw person at all, I just think the shelter kitties out there deserve a chance. I adopted already declawed adults because for years I was renting and most places required it. Lola came into our lives when we were in the process of buying a house, so no more land lord rules.

Of my many, many cats (LOL), one is de-clawed. He showed up at my house one day and stayed. Dumped, no doubt. He doesn't seem to have any de-clawing related issues, except that he's scared of the other cats, especially Scotty. But maybe that's because Scotty is a big fat jerk . Although the other (fully clawed) cats seem to handle Scotty's bullying just fine. He does walk funny, but he is also quite fat (he came that way....working on it), so maybe the waddling is due to his weight.

Though I can say with confidence that I can watch a cat walking and tell you whether the cat is de-clawed or not. They do walk differently---farther back on their heels, not on their toes like fully clawed cats.But of course their toes are removed, so they certainly can't walk on them anymore, I guess.

I did know one cat that needed something like 3 extra surgeries after she was de-clawed, because the claws kept growing back. When they finally solved the problem, she had NO bones left in her feet at all. It was very weird to feel them. She lived a seemingly happy and painfree life after they got that whole thing cleared up, and lived to be 18 (most of it as an indoor-outdoor cat ), but I'm sure she wished she still had her feet firmly attached.

I also know a cat that committed suicide after he was de-clawed. Seriously, I would swear to it. I know some people don't think that cats are capable of that kind of thing, but there was really no other explanation for his death. He was older at the time, and was visibly upset over the loss of his claws (he would try to extend them and then start hissing and spitting when he couldn't). And the first time they let him out after the surgery, he ran in front of a car....never mind he had lived in that neighborhood for years and crossed that street every day, and presumably knew how to avoid vehicles by that time.

I need to put in my two cents. I just viewed the pictures of a declawing procedure. And yes they were disturbing. But..... both of my cats were front declawed as kittens. I had the male done when he was neutered and the female when she was spayed. Both were under anethesia when the procedures were done so they did not feel this pain that everyone thinks they undergo. View some pictures of a neutering or spaying procedure and tell me that is humane.
I have had no problems with my two cats. Both of them have been very loveable pets. One is 16 and the other is 15. I will truly miss them when they are gone.
I feel that declawing is a personal decision that a pet owner needs to make on their own just as is spaying and neutering. Cats use their claws for protection and if they are indoor cats, like many are, they do not need their claws. Each owner needs to research both the pros and cons of declawing and make their own decision.
Enough said!

Originally Posted by gleason

Both were under anethesia when the procedures were done so they did not feel this pain that everyone thinks they undergo.

Click to expand...

Have you ever had a surgery? Even when under anesthesia both human and animals vitals do respond to the trauma. Once awake from it cats are not suddenly magically healed - after the meds and anesthesia ran during surgery wear off thats when the cat starts feeling pain. The next few weeks as they have to constantly walk on those feet are not painless. And before anyone says "give the cat pain meds", these may help but unless something is drugged into a useless stupor pain meds only dull pain, they do not get rid of it.

And yes, I'll agree that neutering and spayings hurt, too. None of us are going to deny this. But these procedures actually are beneficial to a cat. Constant heats can eventually cause the death of a female cat, and intact males have behaviors that can put them at risk for being killed.
Claws have no negative impact on the cat possessing them.

Originally Posted by gleason

Both were under anethesia when the procedures were done so they did not feel this pain that everyone thinks they undergo.

Click to expand...

Yes, but the post-op pain is considerable, and pain meds are not commonly given. When humans have foot surgery, they use crutches or a wheelchair, but cats have to walk around on their post-op feet. Plus they have to dig around in a box of (possibly dirty) sand/gravel.

Cats use their claws for protection and if they are indoor cats, like many are, they do not need their claws.

Click to expand...

Can you GUARANTEE your cats will never get out? What if something happened to you? Can you guarantee their next owners wouldn't let them out? Cats live 20 years or so, and it's unrealistic to believe that they will NEVER need their claws in those 20 years.

Besides, considering the awkward walking of de-clawed cats, I don't believe they don't need their claws....they need them so they can walk properly, at the very least. If you watch a clawed cat and a de-clawed cat walk (you really need to see both at the same time in order to make a proper comparison), the difference is clear.

Honestly I can't understand anybody who cares about their furniture enough to modify their cat's body, and to cause the cat pain in the process. But I have never been attached to inanimate things.

Spaying and neutering are painful, yes. But it's the lesser of 2 evils, I guess you could say. Really the only alternative would be to kill the excess offspring, as has been done for centuries (at least). So between those 2 choices, surgical altering is the more humane option.

Originally Posted by gleason

I need to put in my two cents. I just viewed the pictures of a declawing procedure. And yes they were disturbing. But..... both of my cats were front declawed as kittens. I had the male done when he was neutered and the female when she was spayed. Both were under anethesia when the procedures were done so they did not feel this pain that everyone thinks they undergo. View some pictures of a neutering or spaying procedure and tell me that is humane.
I have had no problems with my two cats. Both of them have been very loveable pets. One is 16 and the other is 15. I will truly miss them when they are gone.
I feel that declawing is a personal decision that a pet owner needs to make on their own just as is spaying and neutering. Cats use their claws for protection and if they are indoor cats, like many are, they do not need their claws. Each owner needs to research both the pros and cons of declawing and make their own decision.
Enough said!

Click to expand...

Did your cats stay at the vet for a day or two afterwards? Have you ever seen cats within the first day post-declaw? I've been in & seen kittens & adult cats who have been declawed hours prior - they are miserable, hurting, and don't understand why they cannot stand up. Not a pretty sight, nor one I will ever forget.

Originally Posted by Willowy

Honestly I can't understand anybody who cares about their furniture enough to modify their cat's body, and to cause the cat pain in the process. But I have never been attached to inanimate things.

Click to expand...

You know, in over 20 years of living with cats and as far back as my memory goes, I can only think of one cat that tried to scratch furniture. It was new and didn't smell right to him. A few squirts of a icky smelling perfume kept his paws off the corners of the couch (and me off the couch entirely ) and that was that.

I think there are still a lot of misconceptions about clawed cats that people need to realize is wrong. Thankfully my vet and his vet techs really try to discourage declawing. ..I partially think that's because spay and neuters take less time and don't need to stay as long - leaving him open to do more surgeries and have more cages open.

Originally Posted by strange_wings

You know, in over 20 years of living with cats and as far back as my memory goes, I can only think of one cat that tried to scratch furniture. It was new and didn't smell right to him. A few squirts of a icky smelling perfume kept his paws off the corners of the couch (and me off the couch entirely

) and that was that.

Click to expand...

Honestly, of all the de-clawed cats I know, I don't think any of them actually "scratch" anything. I know my boy doesn't (except the cardboard scratchy pad---he loves it despite his claw-less-ness). I think most people don't even think about it before de-clawing....it's just "something you automatically do to indoor cats", regardless of their actual scratching behavior.

You'd think that my furniture would be hanging from the ceiling fan, LOL. I currently have 18 cats in the house, and only the one is de-clawed. And I really don't make much effort to keep them from scratching the furniture. Of course they have scratchy pads and posts and climbing things, and they mostly scratch those things. I guess couches aren't much fun if you have a floor-to-ceiling cat tree to destroy.

When I went to pick up Scrappy and Sammy from the vet after their neuters, they let me go back to the kennels to pick them up. There was another kitten there who had been neutered and de-clawed. My boys were just lying in the kennel looking bewildered and dopey, but the other kitten was screaming and throwing himself around the cage, and there was blood smeared everywhere. Ugh, it was horrible. Poor little guy.

This wasn't a thread on the pros/cons of declawing - I believe the person - frogmanjared - started the thread asking about stats, or studies on the subject ---

Partial quote from the first post:
Can anybody lead me to research that has been done? Yep, I'm a nerd, I like to read biology books/journals in my free time!

Well, sure, but there really aren't any studies done....it's not really possible to quantify such things. So the discussion evolved. That's how forums work. I don't see it as a problem. That's what I like about forums.

Originally Posted by gleason

I feel that declawing is a personal decision that a pet owner needs to make on their own

Click to expand...

Most countries outside North America disagree with you on that one.

Originally Posted by gleason

Each owner needs to research both the pros and cons of declawing...

Click to expand...

I have also found this to be veryveryVERY rare. I don't think anyone that I've ever met who has de-clawed their cat has actually researched anything on de-clawing at all. At least not those who routinely de-claw their cats.

IF a person has a cat who has a serious scratching problem, and they've tried EVERYTHING (and I do mean everything), and their cat is still horribly destructive, well, I still don't agree with de-clawing, but I don't blame them for getting fed up. As long as they understand the possible side effects/health complications, and are willing to deal with the possible problems. And they insist on serious pain relief. But that's incredibly rare. Almost everyone who has their cat de-clawed has it done at the same time as the cat is altered, just because. Because their vet recommended it ($$$), because "that's just what you do to housecats", because "he MIGHT scratch the furniture someday", because the other cats in the home are already de-clawed, etc.

And, although the de-clawing procedure is a horrific ordeal for the cat, I really think I wouldn't object to de-clawing as much if it weren't permanent. If the claws grew back (painlessly and without complications) after a few years, I wouldn't think it was so awful. But for the poor cat to go his entire life (20 + years, possibly) without his claws, just because he was a bit naughty when he was little, or because his owners didn't research properly, is just horrible to me.

Originally Posted by Willowy

I have also found this to be veryveryVERY rare. I don't think anyone that I've ever met who has de-clawed their cat has actually researched anything on de-clawing at all. At least not those who routinely de-claw their cats.

Click to expand...

There's been a rare few over the years who have come on here after researching. Generally their life situation is that of declaw the cats or get rid of them in some way (euthanasia or kill shelter) - not because of worry of the damage to furniture, but because they were moving into places that required their cats declawed. The people stuck in situations like this truly don't want to do it, and sometimes I think they're treated a bit too roughly on here for it..


Others you'll see are those who have to do it for medical reasons. Either polydactyl cats who need claws removed from a couple of toes or in one case a person was considering it because their cat's autoimmune/recurrent infections around the claws was a serious health issue.

Even more O/T discussion wise. I wish people would stop attacking those on here that are uneducated about it. Give them information, gently make some suggestions, keep your emotions out of it. All getting overly emotional does is make it likely a person will say something the wrong way and chase a newcomer (and lurkers) off - or make that person unwilling to listen.

Oh, I don't mind if a polydactyl needs a couple claws removed. That won't affect his walking in a negative way or leave him defenseless. I wouldn't hesitate to have a polydactyl's troublesome claws removed at all. It's an abnormality anyway, and you're just correcting it. Having ALL of his claws removed, however---definitely I would object. I have no experience with other medical conditions, but, IMO, having a medical condition remedied is veryvery different from having body parts electively removed purely for human convenience.

However, I do NOT think anybody should capitulate to landlords that require de-clawing. You give in to that once and they'll all try it. Any landlord trying that should be fought tooth and nail (haha), and if that fails, boycotted. Otherwise it'll just get worse.

Ok why do you need studies to prove that declawing has adverse effects on the cat post-procedure?

Declawing is ILLEGAL in my country, as with many other countries.

Rape is illegal in all western countries - but we don't need a study to show us that it has effects on a person after it has occured. It's just plain, wrong. Like declawing, IMO.

Note this list of countries:

http://www.declawing.com/list.html

I believe that the only reason EVER for declawing is if the cat's claws have been previously injured and it is unavoidable that a claw gets removed. In the same circumstance as a human that needed to have a finger removed.

To me all the proof that is needed is that it is deemed as illegal in these fast-thinking, fast-acting countries.

Originally Posted by strange_wings

There's been a rare few over the years who have come on here after researching. Generally their life situation is that of declaw the cats or get rid of them in some way (euthanasia or kill shelter) - not because of worry of the damage to furniture, but because they were moving into places that required their cats declawed.

The people stuck in situations like this truly don't want to do it, and sometimes I think they're treated a bit too roughly on here for it..


Others you'll see are those who have to do it for medical reasons. Either polydactyl cats who need claws removed from a couple of toes or in one case a person was considering it because their cat's autoimmune/recurrent infections around the claws was a serious health issue.

Even more O/T discussion wise. I wish people would stop attacking those on here that are uneducated about it. Give them information, gently make some suggestions, keep your emotions out of it. All getting overly emotional does is make it likely a person will say something the wrong way and chase a newcomer (and lurkers) off - or make that person unwilling to listen.

Click to expand...

I totally agree with your response to this topic - especially your last paragraph. A reasonable dialog produces an atmosphere for a person to have a more open mind to hear and learn.

^That and mob behavior is disturbing..

Originally Posted by WellingtonCats

Ok why do you need studies to prove that declawing has adverse effects on the cat post-procedure?

Click to expand...

Some people are actually interested in learning about animal behaviors - instead of human behavior.

Maybe the person wants it for future reference elsewhere? Asking to see studies was a legitimate question that doesn't cause anyone any harm. Some people prefer proof to opinions.

I'm just sorry that there hasn't really been any unbias studies - it's hard to find them for a lot of things, actually, since everyone has an agenda.