High protein diet safe?

blitzgal

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I am trying to get my two cats to eat more wet than dry food. They currently get a heaping tablespoon of Wellness/Dick Van Patten wet in the morning and again in the afternoon (equaling about an ounce of wet for each cat per day), and I keep a measured amount of dry food on hand for them. One cat is seven and a half pounds (female), the other is fourteen pounds (male).

I've had a problem with my female cat Sophie having a food intolerance and have eliminated grains and soy from their diet, which is helping her. But I still haven't found a dry food that she can handle. Her main problem is that she often turns her nose up at the wet food and I can only get her to eat small amounts at a time or she throws it up. To avoid food competition with the younger male I put her up on the counter to eat her wet food so she can take as long as she wants. They also have a water fountain to drink from, and I add water to her wet food because she likes it smooshy.

My question is -- do the high protein foods such as Wellness CORE cause kidney damage? This seems to be a controversial issue that vets can't agree on. Some say that high quality meat protein sources are easier on the kidneys than grain/soy protein sources. My cat doesn't have kidney damage yet and gets yearly senior screenings. I just don't want her to develop it later.

What are some quality canned foods that you would recommend? So far I can only get her to eat wet food if it has some kind of fish in it. She won't eat beef at all, and doesn't like chicken/turkey if there isn't also fish in there as well. Do canned foods have soy? I still haven't determined exactly what she is intolerant to, but removing the biggest offenders from her diet has improved her problem with sporadic colitis and vomiting. (I should add that she's been to the vet several times this year, and had multiple blood, stool and urine tests looking for parasites and other common illnesses, which is why I'm thinking it's a food intolerance that is causing her issues).
 

sharky

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-+No one truly knows.. Th EXTREMEMLY high protein DRYS are too new ... ie no full generation has eaten them birth to death.. In a dry form IMHO would worry a little ...

Canned MOST cans are truely high protein when you do dry matter analysis so this is a good way to go ... see the cans have moisture which aids in digestion


If you do a search on this site you will find LOADS of opnions
 
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blitzgal

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Yeah, I think I'm too worried to take the plunge with Wellness CORE. I'll do more reading of other threads to see what people think. For now I think I'll stick with a chicken/rice formula dry and try some other kinds of non-fish wet to see if that will entice her. She probably will like the gravy style ones like Merrick.

White rice is more digestible than brown, is that right Sharky? I think I saw you post something like that on another thread.

I'm convinced that she's intolerant to corn, wheat or soy, one of those three.
 

sharky

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Originally Posted by Blitzgal

Yeah, I think I'm too worried to take the plunge with Wellness CORE. I'll do more reading of other threads to see what people think. For now I think I'll stick with a chicken/rice formula dry and try some other kinds of non-fish wet to see if that will entice her. She probably will like the gravy style ones like Merrick.

White rice is more digestible than brown, is that right Sharky? I think I saw you post something like that on another thread.

I'm convinced that she's intolerant to corn, wheat or soy, one of those three.
Yes to a cat ( well okay to any carnivore or ominivore
) white is easier than brown ... just think about this ... what is the main differnce between brown and white?? fiber well cats need little of that


I mix a rice and oatmeal food with grain frees ... one vet is like me and slightly worried the other vet is not worried outside of UTI issue cats ... both vets have nutritional degrees
.. So the opinion is definitely mixed among holistic minded vets


Soy would be my first thought .... the VERY close to it Wheat and then corn... most cats are not real allergic or intolerant to corn like dogs seem to be

I am weird I bought two of nearly every can at the store then found out what was a big hit and what they would eat the second can of
 
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blitzgal

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Soy would make sense because I tried them on Before Grain. I thought there was no soy in it, however there is one ingredient called lecithin that I guess is derived from soybeans. And she's started vomiting again three weeks in (that's how long it took to transition them from the old dry food).

I went through some threads about Chicken Soup for the Cat Lover's Soul. I previously wasn't sure if rice was okay but now am wondering if I should try it. There is also barley and millet in it. Are those easy to digest?
 

sharky

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chicken soup has Many grains... barley is a wheat relative...

yes 90% of lecithin is soy derived thou technically it is a fat amnd should not be causing an issue
 
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blitzgal

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Ugh, I just want to cry. I have no idea what to feed her now...

I saw on other threads that you do not like Before Grain because the protein is too low for being "grain free" which made you suspicious.

What do you think of Taste of the Wild?
 

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I have fed TOTW. All but one of mine could handle it - that one is allergic to peas.

Other good ones are Nature's Variety Instinct - however it was not a favorite. If it was all they got they would eat it but if they had another option they'd skip it.

EVO - I am trying that one tonight after their raw meal to see what their opinion is; I plan to use that if they need extra calories in the winter or if for some reason I can not get meat for that week they'd get EVO dry and a lot of wet.

Orijen - I have a bag, haven't tried it.

Chicken Soup - the prefered the TOTW over it

Natural Balance - a huge favorite///same as TOTW

Blue Wilderness - Wins according to them over anything so far


----------------

That's my cats opinion on the best food...Blue Wilderness I think wins in their minds. At least it had the majority of the 26 who ate it...
 
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blitzgal

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The vet put her on Royal Canin HE after her recent bout of colitis (this was back in early September). I'm guessing that has a HUGE amount of carbs. It helped her diarrhea. But she was still throwing up too much.

So I need to focus on getting them transitioned to canned foods, and should probably avoid grains and fish. I'll have to start googling to research the types of canned foods to look for. Everything I have at home has fish in it. I didn't realize it was actually bad for cats.

I see in a lot of threads that there are issues with pate style wet food. Is it that cats don't like it? I wonder if that's my problem in getting Sophie to eat the wet food.
 

sharky

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Originally Posted by Blitzgal

The vet put her on Royal Canin HE after her recent bout of colitis (this was back in early September). I'm guessing that has a HUGE amount of carbs. It helped her diarrhea. But she was still throwing up too much.

So I need to focus on getting them transitioned to canned foods, and should probably avoid grains and fish. I'll have to start googling to research the types of canned foods to look for. Everything I have at home has fish in it. I didn't realize it was actually bad for cats.

I see in a lot of threads that there are issues with pate style wet food. Is it that cats don't like it? I wonder if that's my problem in getting Sophie to eat the wet food.
HE is a RX food ... Did you and the vet discuss going to OTC foods??

Fish is NOT bad for cats and most do fine with small amounts ... UTI prone cats need to avoid it because of mineral levels
 

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Originally Posted by sharky

HE is a RX food ... Did you and the vet discuss going to OTC foods??

Fish is NOT bad for cats and most do fine with small amounts ... UTI prone cats need to avoid it because of mineral levels
I agree with Sharky on the fish - My Bugsy very likely has IBD and has a huge sensitivity to chicken, so his diet is ALL fish and grassland (lamb, venison, etc.) based, but mainly fish. The main thing you want to pay attention to, when feeding fish is: Is your cat UTI prone? and also - the Quality of the fish, and how it is processed... Not all fish is the same , when it comes to cat food.... The fish in FF is very different of the one in Tiki Cat...
The food I feed is very high quality, low minerals and UTI vet approved. For Dry I feed Orijen 6-fish mixed with Acana Grassland to dilute the fish content, and for wet Bugsy gets Tiki Cat - 100% Fish.

Now, to find out that Bugsy had this sensitivity, I did months of elimination diet - he was first put on a diet with a protein he had never eaten before (NB Venison and pea) for 6 weeks. From there one protein at a time was added, and any change on his digestion was noted....
And sure enough.... every time I gave him chicken, he had violent diarrhea.... So Bingo - no more chicken for Bugsy!

Bugsy also gets probiotics daily (Bene-bac) and digestive enzymes...

My advice for you is to do an elimination diet with your vets help.... He probably has a good food for sensitive digestive system...
There is nothing wrong if your cat doesn't eat wet food right away... one step at a time.... first put her at a blend diet for 6-8 weeks - with your vet's help - , and then start adding ingredients slowly and see what happens... Otherwise you will never really know what is triggering her vomiting...
You don't need to cry....
 
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blitzgal

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Originally Posted by sharky

HE is a RX food ... Did you and the vet discuss going to OTC foods??

Fish is NOT bad for cats and most do fine with small amounts ... UTI prone cats need to avoid it because of mineral levels
The vet gave me HE to get her over her colitis. They ate it for two months and her stool went back to normal. She was still vomiting about once a week (almost always a hairball -- she is a Himalayan). It wasn't prescribed as a permanent fix, just something to get her tummy back in order. I transitioned them over to the Before Grains in three weeks. While it was mixed with the HE, she didn't vomit a single time! But then the day after they were up to 100% Before Grain she started throwing up every day.

I went and got another bag of the HE this afternoon, just to settle her tummy again. However, the good news is that she is not exhibiting any of the behavioral issues that she was with the colitis (lethargy, nausea, not wanting to eat). But of course we can't have her vomiting too often and we can't have her lose any more weight.

Big bummer, the turkey canned Merricks was a no go. But my little boy loved it. I will be able to transition him to a mostly canned diet very easily.

HE has both rice and corn in it, so maybe that's not what she has an intolerance to? For now I will leave out a measured amount of the Royal Canin HE and offer wet food in morning and afternoon as always.

She has never had a UTI. Besides some problems with conjunctivitis (I think due to her breed), she has never had health problems prior to her and my first cat getting a tainted bag of food (it killed him, she was hospitalized for six days and hasn't been the same since).
 

carolina

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Originally Posted by Blitzgal

The vet gave me HE to get her over her colitis. They ate it for two months and her stool went back to normal. She was still vomiting about once a week (almost always a hairball -- she is a Himalayan). It wasn't prescribed as a permanent fix, just something to get her tummy back in order. I transitioned them over to the Before Grains in three weeks. While it was mixed with the HE, she didn't vomit a single time! But then the day after they were up to 100% Before Grain she started throwing up every day.

I went and got another bag of the HE this afternoon, just to settle her tummy again. However, the good news is that she is not exhibiting any of the behavioral issues that she was with the colitis (lethargy, nausea, not wanting to eat). But of course we can't have her vomiting too often and we can't have her lose any more weight.

Big bummer, the turkey canned Merricks was a no go. But my little boy loved it. I will be able to transition him to a mostly canned diet very easily.

HE has both rice and corn in it, so maybe that's not what she has an intolerance to? For now I will leave out a measured amount of the Royal Canin HE and offer wet food in morning and afternoon as always.

She has never had a UTI. Besides some problems with conjunctivitis (I think due to her breed), she has never had health problems prior to her and my first cat getting a tainted bag of food (it killed him, she was hospitalized for six days and hasn't been the same since).
If she was vomiting a hairball, that doesn't really count as vomiting... Furthermore, it does make sense that Royal Canin HE was better for her, as it had more fiber, and since she has a Hairball problem, fiber helps with that... Do you give Laxatone regularly to her, or something of sorts? With this piece of information I would not go grain free - IMHO fiber is a good thing in her diet...
I would keep on this HE diet for at least 6-8 weeks, and after that I would add one protein at a time to her diet, and see what happens... Maybe you can go back to mixing it to Merricks BG...
I would also discuss with the vet a fiber additive for his diet, to help with the hairballs....
And remember - whatever works for YOUR kitty is what is right....
 
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blitzgal

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Yes, I brush her daily and give her Laxatone once a week. Her coat has always been beautiful. No thinning, so dullness, etc. People always remark on her fur whenever they see her.

This evening she chowed down on the HE. And now she's resting peacefully on my bed.


I'll stick with this Rx food and supplement it with wet as much as I can. They also have a drinkwell fountain that she loves. I've felt guilty about feeding them dry when I learned that it's actually not that great for cats. I had no clue about any of this stuff before I ended up with a deadly bag of Iams.
 

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Originally Posted by Blitzgal

Yes, I brush her daily and give her Laxatone once a week. Her coat has always been beautiful. No thinning, so dullness, etc. People always remark on her fur whenever they see her.

This evening she chowed down on the HE. And now she's resting peacefully on my bed.


I'll stick with this Rx food and supplement it with wet as much as I can. They also have a drinkwell fountain that she loves. I've felt guilty about feeding them dry when I learned that it's actually not that great for cats. I had no clue about any of this stuff before I ended up with a deadly bag of Iams.
You know... what works for your cat, is what is better for her....
Yes, Wet is better in theory, but if she throws up everyday on it, what good is that? Not good at all.
In my house I have one cat on ZiwiPeak exclusively (wet), one on dry with 3 oz of wet a day, and another on dry only.
This is what works for each one of them.... It is the best I can do for each one of them, and the best they can take....

I do have water fountains and they are EXCELLENT drinkers; the food I feed is also excellent in quality....

So.... Don't fell guilty just because what is supposedly "right" is not working for your cat!!
Guess what?? Bugsy, is my MALE cat, and his diet is 80% FISH based!! Do I feel guilty?? NO!! This is what works for him! Each cat is an individual, with different needs, and what is important is what works for him! You are doing a great job, kuddos for you!
 

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The HE may be the right thing for now... talk with the vet and discuss % of fiber in a possible oTC food
 

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Originally Posted by sharky

The HE may be the right thing for now... talk with the vet and discuss % of fiber in a possible oTC food
...................
 

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Responding to the original question, mice and rat body composition generally consists of 55% or more protein DMB, with only 3 - 5% carbs. Cats evolved to process other prey animals, so this level of protein isn't "high" at all, it's perfect and eating said diet is just naturally good for them.

As to the question of which highly-processed (cooked, baked, extruded, etc.) commercially produced product is "better" to put in a cat's bowl instead, well, the closer you get to their natural diet, the healthier the diet will be. I know some folks base their feeding decisions on poop consistency, vomiting rates and similar occurrences and, as a result, end up with dry foods being the "best" for their cat, but this just manages digestive upsets, it doesn't address the dietary needs of carnivores.

Rice, like all grains, fruits and vegetables, is a filler put in cat foods to save the producing company money. Here's a recent article on rice you might find interesting Rice Isn't Nice.

Finding a "good" food for our beloved felines shouldn't be so difficult. I wish I could point to a shelf and say there, feed that and you're golden, but no such commercially available product exists. :-(

If you can't feed raw foods, feed wet foods as close to the raw as you can get. Grain-, fruit-, veggie- and fish-free, if you can find it. As close to that as possible if you can't.

And I can't see any reason for you to feel guilty! You love your cats and you're doing the best you can for them. That's all anyone can do. And you certainly can't (shouldn't) feel guilty for not knowing something in the past. <<<<<hugs>>>>>
 

sharky

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There are MANY grain, veggie, fruit free cans avail ... fish free to boot is a touch harder yet I can think of several off the top of my head.. I found the article humorous
.. though I WISH I could find Ground grasshopper in a can for the off season


All foods have pro s and con s... I agree with Auntie on the not feeling guilty part ... MY bottom line is FEED what works ( this = IMHO to the cat will eat it , you can afford it and the cat has healthy skin , coat , eyes and digestion( the last one is easy to see
and smell )... For most this is dry or canned or a mix , others it is raw or homemade and others yet like my house it is a combo of the above... The more research I have done the more I realized Perfect does not exist in one form for all cats
...
 
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