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Trapping for 2nd time? - Page 14

post #391 of 447
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by LDG View Post
That must have felt AMAZING!

But I'm just busting with smiles for you this morning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Me too!!! And she did it again this morning!!!!!!!!!!! I will put a new post about that.

It's amazing how she will just randomly decide 'ok, I am going to do this now' and totally move a step forward in her trust.

Originally Posted by tigerclaw View Post
One comment in your routine. I don't get the latch noise to get Patches back to her box. Maybe she would like to stay at the door when you come in. I always believed in the voice recognition.
I don't make the noise on purpose - the noise happens as soon as I start unlatching. But let's say Patches wouldn't move when I open the door. She would get pushed by the door when I would open it - which would not be nice to her and probably scare her. I'm avoiding that - basically smushing her out of the way with the door. I think she just understands the routine - that when I am standing tall and that latch gets started moving, that it's her time to go in box and then I come in and do my thing. Batman understands the latch - he almost knows how to open doors. He's working on the rotation of the door knob - he is SO SMART. I do talk to Patches so I think I'm doing the right thing.

Originally Posted by tigerclaw View Post
As far as the fighting, I have the same thing. I'm like you in that I feel sorry for the cat that just wants to mind their own business and be felt alone. Good luck with your kittys and please take my comments as suggestions and do what you think is best in your mind.
Thanks Pete - I really appreciate the suggestions!! I believe you suggested the L type box set-up a while ago, pointing out she has no escape. Hopefully our kitties will work out their hierarchy soon.
post #392 of 447
Thread Starter 
Another exciting morning with Patches!

She was at the door, then casually walked to her box when I started opening the latch. And when she walks, she looks like a normal cat now - she is not crouched down at all, her pace is normal, and her tail is that relaxed content state! So she goes in the box and I do my thing (she sniffs my hand for treats - and now she will sniff my hand about 75% of the time when I put it to the screen - she'll inch forward to sniff it sometimes!) To get to litter box, I had to walk by her (she was halfway out of box eating her treats) and my feet were probably within 2-3 feet of her - and she didn't care or even look up. So when I"m scooping the box, she fully stepped out to look at me, then just walked over to the door (with my husband and Batman at other side). She sat down and then I went across room, etc. We couldn't just hang out that way forever (this is in morning getting ready for work) so I again got the treats, and I tossed them near her box - so that got her attention and she casually walked over to investigate.

Yeah! She basically was like 'oh! treat!' and walked over to find it, and didn't really care that I was around. I mean, she had a little skeptical look to her, but nothing really fearful of me. With her by her treats, I used the opportunity to get out of the room - then she again was walking from box to come to the door - again in a normal cat position, casual as can be.

If you would've seen her walking around in the room this morning, a person would think that I just have a cat in a room and probably wonder why. She looked like a cat just walking around her room, content. We have a ways to go, but I'm soooo happy about this new change in her. It's a shame I didn't have more time in the morning to just hang out in the room and see what would happen.

Looks like I need to get in the room with my trail of kibble and try to get her to eat closer to me again. I think that's the next step I need to take.

Go Patches!!!!!
post #393 of 447
Walking within 2-3 feet of Patches is great news. Wow! she is really trusting you. Don't you just love it when your cat goes in a positive direction. She's come along way.

A few more thoughts about the door.
If you remember I brought in a semi-feral cat into my cages that gave birth to 4-kittens last summer. Well she would hiss, grawl and spit at me at the sliding back deck door if I would open it. I told my wife that I don't think i'll be able to tame this kitty. Then I noticed that she was interested in the wand toy through the glass. I worked to slightly opening the door a crack and sliding the wand toy through the crack. She responded favorably and in know time I was able to touch her back with the toy. That was the first break through in eventually touching her. The wand toy was an extension of my hand.

My thought was the screen door could be that extension of your hand. Something touching her with you very close to her. Don't think of completely opening the door right away, but slightly touch her and then pull back and repete. This could be that first contact with her. You might want to do this on your knees so you don't look so over-powering. You could also try a wand toy at the door like I did. Look at it as a tool to get to touch her. Just some thoughts, it worked very well for me.

Keep up the good work, you're making great progress.
post #394 of 447
Originally Posted by killerapple View Post
... If you would've seen her walking around in the room this morning, a person would think that I just have a cat in a room and probably wonder why. She looked like a cat just walking around her room, content. Go Patches!!!!!
It's the kind of thing that makes you want to call in sick to work! Bet your heart was about to leap out of your chest.
post #395 of 447
Thread Starter 
Eek, it's been a while! It's been a crazy month - I changed jobs. I was really busy with interviewing, then putting in my 2 weeks, training the person taking over, then getting into gear at the new job. So that's why I've been so quiet.

Nothing really new with Patches except that we decided to buy these nylon cubes and tunnels for her - with the thinking that we can remove her safety box and replace with these. That didn't go over well. She's not a fan of synthetic weird things - which makes sense now. She is 2 different kitties - she is confident kitty when she's separated by screen door and much more timid when I'm in the room. She spends more time in other areas during day - her other cubes (non-nylon) - and if I come in, she finds an opportunity to sneak to her box. She doesn't feel safe unless she's in the box when I'm in the room.

Batman is doing a bit better with her. He's starting to just flop down and play with her toys, rather than bother her relentlessly.

She spends much of her time outside the door. And what's funny is that if I walk by the door and she's not there, I will talk to her anwyays - and then if I walk by like 2 minutes later, she's poof! There by the door.

I'm thinking we'll be letting her have free roam in a few months?

Sorry for the lack of updates - just been crazy!

I'll keep you all posted, once things settle down a bit. She's doing good though.
post #396 of 447
Oh, how great to hear she is doing well! It sounds to me like she wants your company but she does not want your company. Sweet Pea used to do the same thing; when I was in the room with him he was shy and quiet and as soon as I left he would start to whine and cry at the gate. How typical for a "normal" kitty cat!

I really think she is getting more and more comfortable with you and am so glad about it.

Sweet Pea did not like and still does not like the tunnels but he LOVES the cubes.

Congratulations on your new job!
post #397 of 447
Congrats on the new job! Hope it's going well and you're enjoying!

I'm sorry you're still the big scary people, but she sounds like she's doing really well, and I'm so glad to hear Batman has calmed down a bit around her.

post #398 of 447
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by LoveWhiskers View Post
It sounds to me like she wants your company but she does not want your company.
Funny and true! That's how Batman was at first when he was still leery of us when he was a baby.

I'm sitting in the hallway and Patches is at her side of the screen, on her side, belly 2/3 in the air, all stretched out. We were playing with the wand toy (Batman too, on my side of the screen) and she was doing the happy belly flop! Flopping over on her side, paws in the air, as she happily played. I love seeing her happy.

Now if only I can get her to be this happy when I'm in the room!
post #399 of 447
She will be! Look at how much progress she's made! She has come SO far! And most importantly - she's happy!

post #400 of 447
Hey, been awhile.
Belly flops.... great progress. Doesn't it seem like the screen is some sort of magic ward. With it up theres magic in the air and everyone is cool. Take it away and things change. My two are angels with the screen up, take it away and all hell breaks loose. Thats great if your cats are happy, thats the main thing, the rest will come in time.
post #401 of 447
Thread Starter 
Hi everyone! I think I'm a little overdue for an update on Patches!

Patches is still in her room. Her relationship with Batman is getting so much better. I'm starting to let him in for longer unsupervised periods. He always does the pounce-in-her-box to greet her, then lick or whatever, and usually after that he leaves and does his own thing in the room and flop down to play with toys or whatever. A few nights ago, I let him in there and went outside to do yardwork. Came inside to let him out - I saw him at the screen door. So I opened it up to let him out and Patches was right there next to him!!! I didn't even see!!! So the excitement there was that they were in room together both hanging out by door. And no drama, just two hanging kitties.

Patches is still nervous of me, but she's a happy girl when she's playing and she has no problem smelling my hand in the room when I give her treats. Every now and then when I am cleaning her box (after giving her treats) she will walk the room with me there but get a little nervous when I am leaving. However, today she decided she wanted to eat after her treats so she walked right to her food ignoring me, had some food, had some water, then watched me. I was walking to the door and she then walked a bit towards the box - but no scared body language. Just her normal decent confident walk. I go leave the room and she's still walking (towards the door). So today, she wasn't scared of me. I didn't want to test my luck by hanging out in there longer but wanted to do the same routine so she could see I mean no harm.

So that was exciting. My husband and I are thinking we'll be letting her out of the room maybe in the next few weeks or few months. She is sitting by the screen door 80% of the time I think. Batman is doing pretty great with her. Patches calls for Batman all the time. (She has a very strange meow/call - my friend wonders if she has damaged vocal cords?) She's a sweet little cat, I can tell. She's doing pretty good.

I will keep you all posted and I will get caught up on all these threads I've been missing!!!!
post #402 of 447
I've been wondering, actually! I figured if there were any major break throughs you'd find time to pop on and let us know.

I must say - things really sound basically slow and steady! Your patience is AMAZING, and Patches sure found the right home. The news about her and Batman - and not being afraid of you today - well - that's just !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Another step!

post #403 of 447
So glad to hear that your two kitties are getting along so good. I know with my two it seem so long a process. But if they move in a positive direction the wait is worth it. I got the same problem you had with one cat wanting to get all over the other.

My intro's are still with Tiger in the training cage and Buddy comes running up to the cage and they sniff noses and Tiger doesn't hiss or grawl anymore. Then Buddy rubs himself all over Tigers cage. Maybe in a week or so they will be ready for a one on one.

Nice to hear that Patches is interacting with you so much better. One day she will let go and be a sweet lap kittie.
post #404 of 447
Thread Starter 
Hi guys!

Batman is getting more and more time alone with Patches unsupervised. He's super happy after he gets dinner, so I let him in then and another period (or two) in the evening. When I go back to let/get him out, Patches has gone back to her box. I'll need to film them to capture what they are up to but here's what I have seen when I am in the room together:

First, Batman waits outside door to be left in. Patches hangs out. I'll play with them both with a toy, dragging it near door. As soon as I stand up and touch the latch, she walks into her box.

This is consistently Patches' stance when we first enter the room. She sits upright a bit uncomfortably. Batman darts in to say hi, then paces the room a bit sniffing, playing, then will eventually go back to say hi to her or he'll just flop down and relax.

Patches watches intently, now lowered.

Later on, she usually goes into comfortable cat loaf. She doesn't stretch out fully comfortable when I'm in the room but she will nap with me there and put her head on her paws. Cat loaf:

When Batman goes to say hi, I'm pretty sure he's trying to woo her... he'll chew around her neck, lick her. And guess what? She will lick back and she looks pretty happy. She WILL still get ticked off though. He'll try to mount her... she'll growl... she'll leave the box, he'll chase her... But I noticed the other night that when she left the box with him after her, she flopped down, belly up and then actually lifted her butt up in the air....... So... I'm thinking she actually may be showing him receptivity.... I want to cry 'but she's your MOM!!!!' They are both fixed and yep related, but it's either just a natural thing or him trying to be dominant? Not that she's a dominant kitty....

Here is how Batman lets me know he's ready to leave her room

In that picture, you can see the blankets on either side of screen. They both basically sleep there on their respective sides.

So! I think we're getting REALLY close to having them be ok to be together. It's going to be hard with food since Patches is not a huge eater and Batman needs regulated.

I like that she's safe in the room and I know she can't sneak outside through a door or get hurt somewhere in the house or whatever. I like how safe she is isolated, so it's gonna be hard letting her out - but! I think it's really almost time, even if she and I aren't perfect. She will consistently sniff my hand and she will sometimes walk around the room when I'm scooping. She's doing GREAT. I'm not sure if it'll continue when we let her out though. She seems to take a step forward at random times at her choosing. Everything will change when she's out and about I think (but I'm thinking if she's not in her box, she'll find a new safe territory.)

So I'm still a little on the fence about when is perfect for Patches/myself to let her out, but the Batman/Patches dynamic is SO much better.

I don't think I need to rush the 'when' we let her out so it won't be tomorrow, for example. But it's starting to feel more right.

Oh! Also. It's so cool how she learns from him. Batman likes hanging out in those nylon tubes but she's always avoided them and been scared. He was spending a lot of time in them during the visit I was in with the camera. As soon as I left, she actually walked right over and sniffed and stuck her head in the tube! I was shocked. He really teaches her.

She also is waiting less and less time for me to leave before she leaves box. Sometimes I only have 1 foot out the room and she's walking towards the door!

Edit: And every night she cries for him (we assume) at her door in her very odd cat meow/call. She makes some WEIRD vocalizations. But we can only assume she's calling for Batman.
post #405 of 447
Oh I LOVE the pictures!

She sounds like she's doing GREAT - and you sound so positive about everything. The new and unknown is always a little bit scary for everyone - but she'll have access to her safe room. She may not even leave the room (at first) when you open the door. It'll be interesting to see Batman's reaction, that's for sure.

for being SO wonderful for her!
post #406 of 447
Thread Starter 
Thanks Laurie She's really doing great!!

She surprised me tonight. I let Batman in. He learned last night that if he jumps ON her box, she runs out... so he immediately did that so she left the box and he started chewing on her neck, etc... She deals with it and doesn't hate it at first. Things got a little heated so I got him out of the room. She was on the other side of the room away from the door, away from her box. I put some treats in her box for her and I went to leave, but she immediately went to her box and ate the treats with me still standing there, so I hung around. After she ate (and she wasn't low to ground) she walked back to back of room and around near her food. I decided to sit down with the treats and lure her towards me - and she actually came towards me! She ended up leisurely walking towards me and the treats and eating a foot away. Totally exposed, but she didn't care. I had my hand out, and she debated sniffing, but decided to sit down and not push it. I hung out there with her for a while, with her sitting in the open near me and me nearby, with some treats close to me in a small path to see what her limit was.

My foot started falling asleep so I went and left. But! I was quite surprised with how confident she was walking around and coming towards me in the open.

Not sure if she is loving that box now since Batman figured out he can jump on it

My in-laws were over last night and wanted to take a look at her, so I let them walk up the stairs. I told them she'd be in her box so they couldn't see her, but believe it or not, she actually stuck her head out a bit to see what was going on when she heard some of the voices. They got a glimpse at her, which again surprised me as I thought she would've stayed put in that box and not taken a look. She is quite curious though and I think she is more and more ready to leave the room every day. We're getting closer!
post #407 of 447
I love hearing about Patches' progress. Things are going to be great for all of you. My daughter was just reminding me of how long it took Gracie to even let me sit near her. Now she is right here beside me. Patience really pays off, they just need to know they can trust you.
post #408 of 447
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by KRZ View Post
I love hearing about Patches' progress. Things are going to be great for all of you. My daughter was just reminding me of how long it took Gracie to even let me sit near her. Now she is right here beside me. Patience really pays off, they just need to know they can trust you.
Thanks!! And time sure does fly by!!

I forgot to mention that her tail is getting higher/more confident too!
post #409 of 447
Thread Starter 
Batman is such a goof. He's consistently jumping on her box, forcing her to flee the box. The cool thing is that after I get him out of there so I can focus on one-on-one with her, she's actually not freaked out. She's comfortable enough to walk around and eat some food, then sit somewhere and watch me. She doesn't immediately retreat somewhere. She definitely knows what the treat bag is And her tail is getting more like a happy cat tail.

Maybe this is a sign that the box needs to go soon? Idunno. I want to keep it so she has her safe refuge. We'll see.
post #410 of 447
I'd keep the box. It seems to be helping you and Patches bond. ...and she knows she can leave it and not have it jumped on by Batman! OR - you can buy a plastic box (like a milk crate) that he can't crush on her.
post #411 of 447
Thread Starter 
Patches played with the laser pointer last night! Every now and then I would try with her and she'd have no reaction, but last night when she was sitting a few feet away from me (in middle or room) she got into it!! Very cool!!!

If Batman jumps on the box (which he always does now to get her out....) she'll hang out close-ish to me..!
post #412 of 447
Then definitely keep the box!

VERY cool on the laser! All of our cats but Billy and Charlie go bonkers for it. With Bill it's been two years - don't know if he'll ever groove on it. Charlie... ?????? Guess we'll have to see. But it's so much fun to watch them enjoy it. Go Patches go!!!!!
post #413 of 447
Thread Starter 
You never know!! If Patches is now interested suddenly (maybe after seeing Batman go nuts for it?) perhaps Charlie will too one day. Unless he follows in Billy's pawsteps

Pretty much the same drill with Patches and Batman. Batman now will just put one paw up on the box, then she runs out. They still are working out their dominance or whatever, so it's not perfect but she's not too peeved when he's gone so it doesn't seem to be terribly stressful for her. And she will play with me afterwards. She actually walked a few inches away from my hand for some treats last night - again, out in the open. She does back away a bit and sit down after she gets close, but sure, I would too if I was her. So she's eating from about the same distance she was when she was outside. It's very cool! And as annoyed as I am with Batman for chasing her out of her box, it's cool that she is not retreating back to it and sticking around with scary human.

The past week or so I've noticed she sniffs around where I've been walking after I leave the room. She never used to bother, but now she's sniffing on her way to the door.

She's still suspicious of me but she is doing really good!
post #414 of 447
Glad to hear your two are making great progress together. It's sometimes slow progress though with us humans. But it sounds like she relating to you more and more. If we only could read their minds and really know what's the best path to their heart. Sounds like you're doing a great job, Patches is responding well to your sight and smell.
post #415 of 447
Thread Starter 

Things are going ok over here. Patches doesn't always run into her box when I (or Batman) go into her room. Sometime she walks somewhere else. The other morning she went a few feet away from her food area, so I had to walk pretty darn close to her to get her food dishes. She froze and debated moving, but just stayed and did not hiss or growl. She's more into her toys when I'm in the room (she used to take a lot of work to get to play). And I think she figured out that the paper wad/crinkle ball is a toy too. She gets a little frustrated when her nails get stuck in stuff. I'd hate to stress her out and get her nails trimmed at the vet, but I'm starting to think I should... it's been probably 6 months.

My parents visited this weekend and Patches had no problem with them watching her outside the door. She didn't run way or anything when she heard their foot steps or voices. (Their cats would've hid!)

Batman still likes to rough house with her, and try mounting her, but she kinda likes it... I don't think she cares that much. I just wish they'd hang out together and play instead of having to watch cat romancing. She doesn't growl as much at him anymore and she puts up with him randomly smacking her in the face.... He's a brat. He'll jump up on a table she's near, smack her in the face (she'll take it), then jump down, get on her and bite her neck... So I don't know, they definitely don't hate each other. She's getting more confident when we're both in room. When I throw them each a treat (I toss Batman's far so he runs for it and have hers close to her) he used to run and get her treat since she would be nervous to move, but now she goes for it immediately usually. She's getting more confident around me.

post #416 of 447
Sounds to me like Patches is.... happy! And definitely comfortable in her space.
post #417 of 447
Thread Starter 
Well, after today's 'group session', I thought to myself 'it feels like it's time'. But being Sunday afternoon, I think the time should be Friday night. So! Unless I lose my nerve, I'm going to keep Patches' door open on Friday evening. That gives us the weekend to kinda supervise more and make sure she is ok with Batman around her 24/7.

They are doing pretty good together. He still wants to play a little too much but you can just tell she definitely likes him at some level, tolerating him so well and looking happy when he licks her. She's very playful when we're all 3 in the room. If Batman is calm and sitting somewhere, she will play with me and the wand toy excitedly. She will get up and walk for treats, etc. - very confident with me in the room compared to a few months ago. And now in the mornings, she is almost fast walking to her food as soon as I open up the door to leave.

Patches is definitely doing good.

In an ideal world, I'd get her claws trimmed before we let her out, but I don't think it's worth the vet trip.

Soooo! Unless I lose my nerve... she'll be out in a week.
post #418 of 447

Sending mega to all of you.

I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't leave (at first). When we moved from the RV into a house for a while, the kitties obviously had no concept of "upstairs." The bravest of the bunch was convinced we moved into a house JUST for him and he was out and everywhere immediately. The scaredest stayed in the bedroom (where we released them when we moved) for a couple of weeks before beginning to venture out.

Getting them to eat in the kitchen from the bedroom was a process of VERY slowly moving the bowls out of the bedroom, down the stairs, through the living room, into the kitchen. I think it took a month or more?
post #419 of 447
I just read all 35 pages of As The Cat Turns, lol . You're so patient! I don't think I could do it, my hat is totally off to you for all you've done with Patches. I bet within the next year, she'll be coming up to you for pets .

BTW, for some reason it just cracks me up that your cat's name is Batman, I love it! It reminds me of the pug that says Batman .

Good luck, keep us updated!
post #420 of 447
Thread Starter 
Aw thanks I really had no idea what to expect when I took Patches in, so I think that's why I'm patient - one day at a time and when something happens, it just is thrilling.

A couple nights ago, my husband was in the room with Batman and I (and Patches). Usually it's just me. She acted quite normal though and not too scared at all. I had the wand toy and she actually stretched for it, rolled over, full belly exposed in air... sooooooooooo cute. And yep, she did that in open part of room with 2 humans and Batman in room! She's not caring so much about us anymore being scary. I mean, we're still scary... but playtime is trumping that.

I took a bunch of pictures tonight during her and Batman's session. Isn't she pretty. And she's looking less terrified.

Dominant much?

Smacking her when she eats (trying to play?)

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