Trapping for 2nd time?

Thanks Laurie!!!! That's what I was hoping - since she looks ok weight wise and eating something and pooping, that she is ok since she's so inactive right now. If Mr. Batman was eating like this... he'd be off to the vet.

Looks like a trip to Home Depot is in order. If we can't rig up something, I'll order. Thank you again!!!!!

Originally Posted by LDG

You're beeing so patient and so amazing with her.

I KNOW it's frustrating. But as she wasn't a kitty that got to the point you could pet her outside, I'd have to say Patches is a true feral - and being older, is going to be a long term project. I think it is amazing of you to have taken her in, and some day she is going to understand how happy she is about it - and all the torment this patience takes will simply melt away.

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I'm sorry, but just got into this thread. I live in a house with 10 feral born cats and with the exception of 1 of them, they were all rescued at a very young age.

Just some thoughts that struck me as I read thru the entire thread......

I made a natural scratch post out of a tree branch that was bolted to a square plywood base. Mine love that post. The base is 1" thick plywood, probably about 20" x 20" square. I drilled a hole in the middle of that, then drilled in a well around that hole in the bottom so the bolt would remain flush with the bottom of the base. Once bolted to the branch, I put duct tape over it to protect the floor.

The cube is a cool hidey spot, but if you ever see something like that that has windows in the side, those are a lot less threatening to them as they can see what's coming from a few directions. I've seen wire based pop open cubes (no cushy base) for very cheap in stores.

I wouldn't worry about saliva transmission of disease thru a screen door. If Patches has FeLV, I will tell you that it is a very fragile virus, and transmission is usually through violent encounters (mating or fighting), or long term, close contact between 2 cats. I had a pair of kittens that by a bad mix up at my vets, were not tested when I first rescued them and turned out they both had FeLV. They lived in my house, sleeping, eating, grooming and playing with my other cats for 9 months before 1 of the 11 residents got sick. Vaccinations are not 100% effective, but from all the research I did at the time, roughly 1 in 10 vaccinated cats that have long term exposure can contract it. Some vets will also go 30 days between tests, others at 60 days and rarely do vets wait 90 days (in your case). But it is wise for you to work with your vet on this one. Keep that relationship solid.

Batman and Patches bond could be very interesting, as they are blood related and I'm a firm believer that there is a sense within cats that allows them to recognize their kin. In the wild, related male cats nearly always bond, even if they had never met each other before and they are from different litters. Mother and son could be different, as mom cats usually push out their sons as soon as they are grown (preferring the company of their daughters in feral colonies). But without the environment of being in the wild, this may not apply at all. I really look forward to see how they interact with each other.

Patches does sound like she is a true feral, which is different than what the majority of people on this site claim as being feral. Therefore she isn't going to progress as quickly as many of the stories that you read here. Don't ever let that discourage you. My 1 feral born cat (Lucky) that lived outside for 18 months before I got him inside the house is finally beginning to sleep on my legs at night. He'll be 7 in April.

A story about Lucky. I lived way out in the country and there was a feral cat that I failed to trap for 5 years. She would only come by my house after she delivered kittens and they were old enough to move around. Stupid me never tried to trap her while her kittens were young and she'd leave the second they were weaned (and leave them behind for me to fend for). I have 3 cats that are offspring of this cat with 5 years in between them (Bob, Pinky and Lucky). When Lucky first came into the house, both Bob and Pinky immediately befriended him. It was the interactions that I had with Bob and Pinky that helped Lucky get over the hump of the "big scary human". And while Lucky wouldn't cuddle with me for years, he was always in a pile with his half-brothers. Lucky accepted me because his brothers did. Thus my intrigue on how Patches and Batman will interact - if they bond, you'll start to see her relax more and more.

I always have to remind myself to celebrate the minute improvements that I have with them. The other night when I woke up in the middle of the night and realized that it was Lucky sleeping across my legs, I wanted to jump up and down in glee.

You have the right mindset going through this. Don't let any setbacks upset you and never kick yourself if you think you contributed to one of them. Every last person here who has worked with feral cats have made mistakes with them. You learn from them and keep going. And down the road you'll look back on this and smile at the progress you've made.

Wow, thank you so much Amy!!! Glad you made it through the whole thread without falling asleep.

Thanks for the insight about scratching post. We plan on going to look at materials tomorrow and rig something up for her. I'll look for those hidey cubes too! But I won't put out a new hidey spot for her until after her vet visit. I'm happy to say she was hanging out in her cat carrier yesterday!! (She's avoided it like the plague since her vet visit - but it's been 2.5 months so I guess she settled for it since she only has 3 hidey spots now).

Yeah I'm very curious how things will go with her and Batman! I've put a towel with his scent by her food dish and will get towels with her scent after vet (2 weeks!) I will say I'm a bit nervous too... because he seems to be the big "ammo" to help get her comfortable. And there are no guarantees.

But I'm an optimist! And she's stuck with me for the long haul.

I'll take an updated picture of her living quarters after I get a scratching post built. The rooms looks a LOT better than that really old photo - there's a big coffee table with a blanket draped over it so her eating area feels safe. I'll have to do something similar with her litter boxes because when we get a screen door up, her litter boxes will be very exposed - and I don't want her to feel not safe so I'll have to get some sort of divider up so she can use litter boxes and feel safe once that door gets changed... So much to think about!

Thanks again!

Originally Posted by killerapple

Yeah I'm very curious how things will go with her and Batman! I've put a towel with his scent by her food dish and will get towels with her scent after vet (2 weeks!) I will say I'm a bit nervous too... because he seems to be the big "ammo" to help get her comfortable. And there are no guarantees.

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If you think about it, Patches primary interactions before you started to care for her were with other cats. As much as we would like to think we understand cats, we will never speak their language. Having a role model who is bonded with humans is a very important factor in the socialization process.

Have you found the threads that talk about introducing an old cat to a new one? You want to use everything you can when you bring Batman and Patches together and not be discouraged if they don't take to each other right away. On the one hand, a feral cat can often instantly bond with another cat because they share a common language. But on the other hand, natural cat behavior (when not fixed) will have a mother driving away her sons. But add a third hand, and I've witnessed spayed feral moms fully bonded with their sons as adults. Continue prepping them with the scent swap and start reading the introduction threads.

Hmmmmm it will definitely be interesting to see what happens. I warned my husband that it will probably initially go bad (so he expects the worse and doesn't worry about Batman) but that eventually they'll at the minimum tolerate each other and at the best, Batman will help Patches understand we are good. My husband thinks Patches will just hide in the box and not even go to the screen door to interact with Batman but we shall see. Late at night, I will get woken up to hearing Batman talking to himself (or her) and playing under her door. While I can't say if she interacts back with him, I have seem some of her fur near the door so I know she's been there (but don't know if it's when he's there or later to smell him.) I need to get a webcam or something and film so I know! I would love to know if they interact now.

I have been reading about introducing cats to each other, but it's going to be a bit different with Patches. I don't see how I could let Patches roam the house on her own and expect her to go back to her room so I can let Batman go back to rest of house after she explores. If I would open the door, I imagine she would either stay in the room for a long time and not leave or go out and find the first safe place to hide and then stay there for a very long time. So I definitely need to dig and see if I can find threads where the new cat is like Patches and not able to be handled. Patches' room has a Feliway diffuser but I also bought a bottle of spray to help with rest of house (knowing I may need to just get another diffuser as well).

(I actually have been reading about cat intros unrelated to Patches because of a family situation. My parents have 2 senior sister cats and my grandmother's male senior cat may need to live with them in the near future, due to her decline and knowing that one day her needs will not be met in her assisted living facility and she'll have to go somewhere where no cats are allowed. Her decline is very depressing. I've been researching the cat intros for my parents to help them out. I'll post a new thread in the Behavior forum about that situation when it gets closer to the time.)

I have to say that watching Patches interact with the 4th kitten (male, 4 mo) was one of the most heart warming interactions I have ever seen in my life. I've never seen a mother animal with her young like this before. Watching Patches go investigate the food to make sure it was safe, then leave, then have the baby come out to eat - and seeing Patches just sit on guard, watching her baby. Then after baby would get his fill, Patches would eat her dinner. Then I'd watch baby pounce on mulch, while Patches would give herself a bath. Then baby would pounce on Patches and Patches would flick her tail in annoyance. Baby would jump all over and her and they'd just cuddle. It was so unbelievable to watch all of this - just by looking out my front porch.

Thank you again! I am trying to educate myself as best as I can. I sincerely appreciate all the help and advice!! I'm all ears for advice!

When you get to the point where you open up her door to allow her to roam, close the doors to most of the rooms in your home so that she can only be in open areas. The room she is in now is her safe zone, so if anything scares her in the house, she will most likely make a bee line straight back to that room. Chances are that she won't leave that room at all until late at night when the house is quiet. I had a feral girl that did that - she lived in my sewing room under a table and I would hear her roaming at night once we were "asleep". I actually saw her out of that room maybe twice in the 18 months she lived with us (she died young from a genetic disease so I don't know how she would have been had she lived a full life). But I will add that she lived in that room because I had 11 other cats at the time and only 2 of them had befriended her. She was more afraid of the other cats than of people.

And as I type this, I've noticed that Lucky, my older feral rescue, is asleep in the next room over, laying sprawled out on his back in the middle of the room in the sun and it makes me smile. There is always hope with these cats. Some take more time than others.

I think whether or not you're able to get a screen door up is what's going to help decide how best to proceed on the intro front.

I agree - opening the door for Patches to roam the house (swap rooms with Batman, so to speak), is not going to be the route to go. Opening that door is going to be the last step, I think for her. My guess is that it's going to be supervised intros with Batman in the room.

Ideally they become at least comfortable with each other through the screen door, then Batman is allowed in her room, and he's not overly aggressive with her - eventually gets bored enough that you can pet him in there and play with him in there (or just on the other side of the screen door so she can see).

Continued !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So - it seems like we're close enough to the vet visit to basically start a countdown!

Originally Posted by LDG

So - it seems like we're close enough to the vet visit to basically start a countdown!

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I know I am!!

Thanks everyone! We absolutely plan on getting the screen door put on (and re-enforcing with chicken wire?). We just need to measure, borrow a van, and buy. DH is also currently working on a scratching post. It's been really rainy lately so we just bought untreated wood and will rough it up a bit. We'll have to look at branches when it's dry.

I kept telling Batman yesterday that he has an important job coming up - being a cat ambassador.

12 days!!!!!!

Oh, I just can't wait to see how everything goes! The screen door sounds like a great idea, I told my husband about it...

What happened to the fourth kitten that you could not trap?

Marina

Originally Posted by LoveWhiskers

What happened to the fourth kitten that you could not trap?

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4th kitten did get trapped. We just didn't get him inside at 6 weeks when we got his 3 siblings. We looked for days but couldn't find him! We didn't see him for 2 months (Patches kept him hidden) and so he went invisible to us from 6 weeks until he was like 14 weeks old! We got him trapped and I basically emailed 30+ rescues, found 1 willing to take him in. Did initial vetting/neuter and wrote them a check and they keep in touch with me. I'm basically treating it as a sponsor so I donate to them when I can, since they did this for me. No one else wanted/had resources to take in a 4 month old un-socialized black kitten and my husband at the time was very adamant that we would have no more cats. Between then and now, we somehow came to an agreement take in a feral ADULT! He had a change of heart. Honestly, if this rescue didn't take in the 4th, I don't see how I would've been able to do the Release part of TNR. I probably would've cried and begged to keep kitten #4 inside. Then Patches would probably still be an outside kitty. Or I would beg more and we would have 3. It's interesting to think about.

The screen door will definitely be interesting! It looks like it'll be ~$40 for the actual screen door - not bad.

Amy? Any thoughts on whether the screen door needs to be reinforced? I know others that have done it haven't needed to... but I don't know Batman.

Originally Posted by LDG

Amy? Any thoughts on whether the screen door needs to be reinforced? I know others that have done it haven't needed to... but I don't know Batman.

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I have found that any really determined cat can find a way thru any screen door. Just ask my Spanky (the appropriately named little rascal).

What some cats will do is dig at the edge of the screen where it is attached to the frame. If the screening material is firmly implanted in the frame, there is usually no issues. I have had to replace the splining material in my patio screen doors with spline that is thicker than what came from the manufacturer. But many wood framed screen doors have a piece of wood that is stapled over the screen into the wood frame, which is far more sturdy than what they put on my metal doors. Spanky also ripped thru the middle of my sun room window screen. That screen was as old as the window (probably 25 years old) and very brittle. I replaced all of those screens with new material and it was fine after that.

Just look at where the screening material attaches to the door and make sure it looks secure to you.

I've become the master screener over the years.

I figure Batman will try. He's extremely interested in her room. I have put that plastic draft protector stripping on the bottoms of the door - and there is probably literally 2mm exposed where I cut it barely too short. He found that after a week or so and realized he can put his paw there to get his paw under the door. (I bought the stripping in case there was something transmittable - I guess I should just remove it now.)

I was more concerned Patches would claw her way through the screen door. Hmmmmmm. We'll take a careful look at how the screen is attached and go from there. Thanks for the insight!!! I figure Batman would be a corner digger and Patches would go for the middle.

Patches has some very sharp claws. I saw a claw shedding (or whatever you would call it) on the floor the other night - wow. I didn't want to stress her out at the vet and have them trim her nails. Should I ask them to do that on her visit in 2 weeks? Or is that just too much stress on the poor girl? Her next visit will be Frontline and her combo test. I plan on dropping off poo sample day before and just going home after her blood is taken so we're not just sitting in the vet with her freaking out while we get results. Trying to make her visit as stress free as possible.

Definitely ask them to clip her claws. It'll be stressful for her at the vet anyway, and you want them clipped for any potential screen or Batman interaction.

In order for Patches to claw at the screen door, she would have to be comfortable enough to want to expose herself out in the open. Frankly, I don't see her doing that right now and wouldn't worry about it. If the screen door was to the outside and not to the rest of your house, then I would worry.

As for trimming claws, I have to pass on answering that one. I don't have it done on mine so don't understand the stress that some cats go thru when its done. If they were to give her a sedative for any reason, then that might be the time to have it done.

For whatever reason, about two years ago Tuxedo decided he no longer wanted us to clip his claws. Because he's at the vet so often for his hematocrit, we have them clip them. Like Patches, he just tenses up at the vet - doesn't usually lash out or struggle. It's actually less stress on him to have them do it than to have us tackle it here at this point.

I'm also thinking everyone - including Patches - will be happier if she has clipped claws. When they're really long they get caught in things - and I know our other cats are happier when his claws are clipped.

Given that Patches is an older feral, I agree - probably a long road to hoe here (on her being comfortable being out). But if in the next couple of weeks/months intros between Patches and Batman MAY happen, then I think it best to get her claws clipped now.

Oh, I am so glad to hear the 4th kitten is sound and safe and well taken care of. He must look very much like Batman right? The photo of the three you rescued is absolutely adorable.

I know what you mean about feeling devastated if the rescue did not help; I guess things worked out the way they were supossed to

Yes, we are thinking about the screen door, just have to figure out a plan.

I am no expert with ferals as you know, but I would think it would be a good idea to have her nails clipped. We did that with Sweet Pea when we took him in for everything else. Now of course they are huge...We trim our kitties nails regularly and I forgot until now how long they can get...

Marina

11 days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It'll definitely be interesting when the screen door is up. She's a DSH, but she has a thick coat like Batman and since I can't brush her, she does shed a bit. A couple nights now, I've seen some of her shedded hair right by the door. I think that means she either investigates the door after Batman's been pawing around or possibly interacts with him already. (The clumps aren't alarming - just to me indicating she's spending time sitting there or what not.) Interesting!

10 days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!