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Obama officially throws Israel under the bus - Page 4

post #91 of 99
9/30/09 at 10:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
The concept is the same. Take your pick. This one, or the rebels resettling the areas burned out in Darfur, or Turkish nomads creating settlements in the PKK areas. Would you support them?
So, you're willing to just relegate the Israeli-palestinian conflict to one of analogy and similarity? Seems that's the problem, that we read a blurb about these poor homeles sorts and the big bad nation-state that infringes on "their" land, and we make a judgment. With no regard to specifics or origins.

The circumstances surrounding the 1948 and 1967 wars - and the previous 50 years or so in that region - are unique, and should be treated as such. Though, I realize there seem to be a few too many versions of "the truth" out there.

But if it's enough to get by on thinking that the "concept" is "the same" in all of those instances, I guess there's nothing more to say.
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post #92 of 99
9/30/09 at 10:54am
It appears that a lot of people feel that one set of standards applies to Israel, and another to the rest of the world.
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post #93 of 99
9/30/09 at 11:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat View Post
It appears that a lot of people feel that one set of standards applies to Israel, and another to the rest of the world.
Interesting, being that the arab league has had its own egregious moral code that it has lived by in reference to Israel since its inception, and Americans didn't give a damn about it...until America threw its grubby hands into the palestinian situation. Everyone needs a cause, don't they. Everyone wants to be a humanitarian. But no one wants to really get to the essence of why.

Or better yet, just cast a blind eye like the rest of the world has done for the better part of 60 years, like America typically does with any regional crisis that they don't have a prevailing interest in. It's better than picking a side and getting it wrong.
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post #94 of 99
9/30/09 at 12:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keycube View Post
Everyone wants to be a humanitarian. But no one wants to really get to the essence of why.
And the why IS the key - the why is being ignored because, never mind.

We just need to continue to be a strong supporter of Israel! IMO
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post #95 of 99
9/30/09 at 1:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keycube View Post
So, you're willing to just relegate the Israeli-palestinian conflict to one of analogy and similarity? Seems that's the problem, that we read a blurb about these poor homeles sorts and the big bad nation-state that infringes on "their" land, and we make a judgment. With no regard to specifics or origins.

The circumstances surrounding the 1948 and 1967 wars - and the previous 50 years or so in that region - are unique, and should be treated as such. Though, I realize there seem to be a few too many versions of "the truth" out there.

But if it's enough to get by on thinking that the "concept" is "the same" in all of those instances, I guess there's nothing more to say.
And therein lies your misunderstanding of this particular thread. Isreal, as a nation, isn't building settlements anywhere. Isreal, as a nation, isn't santioning the construction of these settlements. The "big, bad nation-state" as you put it, isn't being affected in the least. Obama's statement is quite blunt. American does not recognize the validity of settlements by Isreali citizens that wander into contested territories and start building.

And, FTR, all the situations I mentioned are "unique", and the mechanics of each can be compared to any other. The mythical aspect and biblical prophecy is something we can and should ignore in the creation of foreign policy. The very thing that makes it "unique" to some people is the very thing that should not be considered.
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post #96 of 99
9/30/09 at 1:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keycube View Post
Interesting, being that the arab league has had its own egregious moral code that it has lived by in reference to Israel since its inception, and Americans didn't give a damn about it...until America threw its grubby hands into the palestinian situation. Everyone needs a cause, don't they. Everyone wants to be a humanitarian. But no one wants to really get to the essence of why.

Or better yet, just cast a blind eye like the rest of the world has done for the better part of 60 years, like America typically does with any regional crisis that they don't have a prevailing interest in. It's better than picking a side and getting it wrong.
So are you suggesting that we just leave the area entirely? Interesting.
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post #97 of 99
9/30/09 at 1:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GloriaJH View Post
We just need to continue to be a strong supporter of Israel! IMO
I completely agree. And just as the US can support Iraq while comdemning the actions of the PKK, we can support Isreal while condemning the actions of it's nomadic settlers.
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post #98 of 99
9/30/09 at 3:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
And therein lies your misunderstanding of this particular thread. Isreal, as a nation, isn't building settlements anywhere. Isreal, as a nation, isn't santioning the construction of these settlements.
Um, sorry- but Israel IS sanctioning these settlements by building police stations and municipal offices there.

"You'd never know it from touring several of the settlements in which massive construction has taken place on private Palestinian lands. Entire neighborhoods built without permits or on private lands are inseparable parts of the settlements. The sense of dissonance only intensifies when you find that municipal offices, police and fire stations were also built upon and currently operate on lands that belong to Palestinians."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1060043.html
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post #99 of 99
9/30/09 at 4:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjh27 View Post
Um, sorry- but Israel IS sanctioning these settlements by building police stations and municipal offices there.

"You'd never know it from touring several of the settlements in which massive construction has taken place on private Palestinian lands. Entire neighborhoods built without permits or on private lands are inseparable parts of the settlements. The sense of dissonance only intensifies when you find that municipal offices, police and fire stations were also built upon and currently operate on lands that belong to Palestinians."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1060043.html

And there are cities all over the world that build police and fire stations without the approval, or even the knowledge, of their national governments. All this means is that it's a large enough settlement to support such infrastructure.
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