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Article on domestic and wild cats breeding

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
Interesting article on Daily Mail regarding breeding of what they call "supercat"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ld-breeds.html
post #2 of 24
What is a bigger concern is some of these cats in the hands of the WRONG people who are breeding. Many of them are genetically incompatable or do not have the exact chromosones in both sides. The Caracels are a good example. The size difference and the gestation are NOT compatable and its already been proven with many problems when a breeder in the US tried to cross them.

Many larger wild cats will kill a domestic cat and I think its wrong to force breeding and trying to breed some of the combinations people are coming up with.
post #3 of 24
GKs got the right idea, but I have to say I'd rather see people try to breed & domesticate wild cat crosses then keep wild cats in their basements because they are cute as cubs. If someone can come up with a tiger-cub looking cat & keep every yokle from adopting an exotic they aren't ready for, I think they deserve a nobel! Well the animal-lover's equivilant anyway .

I'm assuming these breeders would be doing AI as opposed to natural mating.
post #4 of 24
I don't see that much difference between some of these crosses and first gen. bengals. It's still a hybrid even if it's a more acceptable one. Pet wise, savannahs should be fine - but no one needs early gens unless they're a breeder or experienced with them.

And just so everyone knows, the RSPCA has morphed into an AR group. Anything they put out will be as slanted as HSUS or PETA.

If anyone is interested check over on rexano.org

ETA: did anyone follow the link on that article for "Remember that cute little cat you patted on holiday in Rhodes? It's got six weeks to live" I find that one much more disturbing and just plain wrong if it's true! (faint of heart, don't click on that other article)
post #5 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by strange_wings View Post

ETA: did anyone follow the link on that article for "Remember that cute little cat you patted on holiday in Rhodes? It's got six weeks to live" I find that one much more disturbing and just plain wrong if it's true! (faint of heart, don't click on that other article)
Um,


as far as I know only Germany, Switzerland, Austria and England do not have kill- shelters. Every other country on this planet either poisions cats or catches them to have them be put down at the pound. Some countries like the US will have both non kill and kill shelters.

You'll find non- kill animal shelters very often run by either English or Germans expats in most South European countries.

I's not really a big secret, strange_wings.

regards,

Christine
post #6 of 24
Quote:
Every other country on this planet either poisions cats or catches them to have them be put down at the pound. Some countries like the US will have both non kill and kill shelters.
I don't know, having a pink cocktail or getting gassed seems a lot more humane than being poisoned or hung.
post #7 of 24
I didn't ask about shelters, did I?

No, the part that is disturbing about that story is that the cats are part if a marketing ploy to get tourist there. Seems very underhanded and as dirty as some of the things aimed at tourist in parts of Asia...
post #8 of 24
I've heard quite a few aweful stories about the cats in greece.

Cats make good tourist attractions though, I know we have cats on our capital hill that are quite the draw. They've tried to get rid of them a few times but the public just won't let them.

Mind you I've never gotten around to actually going down & seeing them...

I wish I could get to the pictures I took of Cats when I was in Vienna, they are just regular ol' strays but they were SO cute and friendly (unfortunately they are packed away on an old drive somewhere).
post #9 of 24
, please!
post #10 of 24
Oops

Quote:
Originally Posted by strange_wings View Post
... Pet wise, savannahs should be fine - but no one needs early gens unless they're a breeder or experienced with them...
So would you support licensing regulations for those animals?

Where do you draw the line between "part wild" and "regular house cat"?
post #11 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nes View Post
So would you support licensing regulations for those animals?

Where do you draw the line between "part wild" and "regular house cat"?
I wouldn't, no. There's no evidence that they're wild or dangerous. Would you want to have to license felis silvestris catus, too? There's more incidents of serious injury caused by them (serious as in, put you in the ER or hospital).
The USDA deems these common hybrids to be domestic cats as does TICA.

Part wild? What about feral house cats? They're as dangerous as any hybrid that comes out close to the same size. And before anyone points out savannah get larger, it depends on the gen, and also what about large maine coons and ragdolls? These cats can get over 20lbs - are they more dangerous than another domestic cat that is only weighing in at 10lb? Should those breeds be banned because they an get larger?

And again, everyone likes Bengals but they have a hybrid history, too. There's no difference. (of course the other breeds need to be better developed and worked with more like the Bengal has, too)

And for something else that I think is kind of neat. Look up a F5 savannah, now look up an Egyptian Mau. There's some belief that the Mau may have descended from natural cross thousands of years ago or maybe that the Egyptians did it intentionally. - who knows?
There are problems in some areas with other wild felis silvestris crossing with feral domestic cats, to the point they don't know if there are any pure ones left as in the case of felis silvestris silvestris. Just how unnatural (human guided) is that?
post #12 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nes View Post
GKs got the right idea, but I have to say I'd rather see people try to breed & domesticate wild cat crosses then keep wild cats in their basements because they are cute as cubs. If someone can come up with a tiger-cub looking cat & keep every yokle from adopting an exotic they aren't ready for, I think they deserve a nobel! Well the animal-lover's equivilant anyway .

I'm assuming these breeders would be doing AI as opposed to natural mating.
Where did you come up with this?? There is nothing wrong with keeping wild cats as pets, as long as you are responsible. Who keeps wild cats in their basements?? The vast majority of people who own exotics are responsible and I would say even more responsible than a lot of people who own domestics. I am not a huge supporter of breeding domestics with wild cats. I much prefer to see the continued breeding of wild cats with the wild, to keep their gene pools strong. Now, this yokle must go to the basement and take care of my bobcats and cougar
post #13 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberThe Bobcat View Post
Where did you come up with this?? There is nothing wrong with keeping wild cats as pets, as long as you are responsible. Who keeps wild cats in their basements?? The vast majority of people who own exotics are responsible and I would say even more responsible than a lot of people who own domestics. I am not a huge supporter of breeding domestics with wild cats. I much prefer to see the continued breeding of wild cats with the wild, to keep their gene pools strong. Now, this yokle must go to the basement and take care of my bobcats and cougar
I think what Nes is trying to say is that yes there are people out there who will get a cute adorable baby wild cat thinking this thing is a pet and then realize that as it gets older they don't have the resources to actually care for this animal. Then these poor things end up living in deplorable conditions with no contact from the outside world due to the lack of any intelligent foresight from these people who didn't think before they bought.

I think its great that you and other owners care for your bobcats and cougars and that you are responsible people who know what they are dealing with. Now if only the rest of the world would be just like you... or wait did you think she was talking about you specifically?
post #14 of 24


I don't see ANYTHING wrong with people who care for their wild animals properly (I'm pro-zoo though). It's the idiots that see a movie then go "I want a tiger cub! swooo cwute!!" then keep them on their couch. They deserve to be eaten by their pets!

What was the movie in the 70s? With tipy... tipsy... (omg, am I making people feel old? I'm sorry!). I remember seeing the doc. about the movie and they were talking about how they tried to keep all these lion & tigers in their house. Her name will come to me shortly... they went on and founded an actual wild-life sanctuary and stopped keeping animals in the house.

On the opposite you have places like the Bowmanville Zoo who are incredibly responsible with their wild animals, and even though they do allot of trick training & public outreach with their adorable baby creatures, they really are advocating proper care of wild animals.
post #15 of 24
Tippi Hedren - Melanie Griffith's mother.

Unfortunately folks who get wild animals generally don't know how to care for them.

I really don't like the idea of breeding wild to domestic cats.
post #16 of 24
But once you do you get a domestic cat. Even though they look wild you couldn't drop a Bengal off in the country somewhere and expect it to survive. (though a wild cat raised in captivity would have the same problem)
Bengals, savannahs, and other hybrids fill that gap for people who want wild looking cats. I'd prefer someone get a bengal over getting a full asian leopard cat, or even a larger cat, any day.
post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by strange_wings View Post
Bengals, savannahs, and other hybrids fill that gap for people who want wild looking cats.
Ocicats or Egyptian Mau's fill that need, without wild cats getting involved at all.
post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nes View Post
I don't see ANYTHING wrong with people who care for their wild animals properly (I'm pro-zoo though). It's the idiots that see a movie then go "I want a tiger cub! swooo cwute!!" then keep them on their couch. They deserve to be eaten by their pets!
Nothing wrong with keeping a tiger cub or any other wild cat cub/kitten on the couch and in the house with you. In fact, it should be done. My cougar even slept in bed with me and loved to lay next to me on the couch and watch tv This is what forms that strong bond. However, it is knowing when it is time for the larger wild cats to live outside in a secure enclosure. That strong bond you form with the cat when he/she is a cub is something they never forget.
Quote:
Unfortunately folks who get wild animals generally don't know how to care for them.
This is even more true for many folks who own domestic animals. Just look at how many are in shelters and the reasons why. Generally, most people who get wild animals do know how to care for them properly. It's the few who do not, that make all look bad and the very reason why you can make this type of "general AR type statement". The breeders of wild animals are the ones who are most at fault, for bad owners. Breeders should do more research, on the person who they are selling the animal to. Natasha, our most recent rescued bobcat, came from an owner in New York state. The owner was a very good person and did a fantastic job with her, the 6 months he had her. The problem was, New York state is a ban state and owning a bobcat is no longer allowed, unless you are going to exhibit, for education etc. The breeder knew this and still sold him the bobcat. The breeder should not have sold him this bobcat until he had the proper permits.
post #19 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberThe Bobcat View Post
This is even more true for many folks who own domestic animals. Just look at how many are in shelters and the reasons why. Generally, most people who get wild animals do know how to care for them properly. It's the few who do not, that make all look bad and the very reason why you can make this type of "general AR type statement". The breeders of wild animals are the ones who are most at fault, for bad owners. Breeders should do more research, on the person who they are selling the animal to. Natasha, our most recent rescued bobcat, came from an owner in New York state. The owner was a very good person and did a fantastic job with her, the 6 months he had her. The problem was, New York state is a ban state and owning a bobcat is no longer allowed, unless you are going to exhibit, for education etc. The breeder knew this and still sold him the bobcat. The breeder should not have sold him this bobcat until he had the proper permits.
John, I honestly believe there are few exotic owners like you and your wife. I DO believe there are more exotic owners that do NOT know what they are doing. I may be all wrong, but that is my belief.
post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
John, I honestly believe there are few exotic owners like you and your wife. I DO believe there are more exotic owners that do NOT know what they are doing. I may be all wrong, but that is my belief.
A lot of people may believe that, thanks to the garbage our liberal media puts into everyone's head, but as an exotic owner myself, I know this is not the case. I post on another cat forum, called Exoticcatz.com and am head moderator there. In this forum, you will find many other exotic cat owners like myself, whom are very responsible, excellent owners. And like me, they have to fight for their right to own the animals they love and put up with the bias most people believe is true, about exotic animal owners.
post #21 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by missymotus View Post
Ocicats or Egyptian Mau's fill that need, without wild cats getting involved at all.
Sorry Amanda, but neither Ocicats, nor E. Mau's look wild to me in the least bit. Sure they have spots, but a wild look....nope. Nothing against your cats, but a domestic tabby can have spots.
post #22 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
Tippi Hedren - Melanie Griffith's mother.
Thank you!!! That has been driving me crazy!!
post #23 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberThe Bobcat View Post
I post on another cat forum, called Exoticcatz.com and am head moderator there. In this forum, you will find many other exotic cat owners like myself, whom are very responsible, excellent owners. And like me, they have to fight for their right to own the animals they love and put up with the bias most people believe is true, about exotic animal owners.
I really enjoy visiting Exoticcatz.com. I love all the beautiful photo's and reading about exotic cat ownership. These people are so dedicated to the animals they love so much.
post #24 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by abbycats View Post
I really enjoy visiting Exoticcatz.com. I love all the beautiful photo's and reading about exotic cat ownership. These people are so dedicated to the animals they love so much.
Yes they are I also belong to another organization called the FCF, Feline Conservation Federation. Another group of dedicated responsible owners, both professional and private
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