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MOST holistic vets will say no to seafood... IMHO I avoid it as it contains lots of ickys like PCBs and heavy metals plus parasites
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Raw treats?
- Thread starter kitty queen
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Too much fish can sometimes cause problems with UTI's in male cats - I would not feed raw fish to my guys.
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I should have said, "Can't properly digest grains, etc."
It's tough to believe, I know, but research into a cat's digestive processes will show that cat's have no biological need whatsoever for fruits, veggies and grains. They evolved to get what they need from prey, from their meat, their bones and their organs, and they don't have the necessary enzymes to properly digest fruits, veggies and grains.
And while these products may SEEM to have a positive effect sometimes, that effect can generally be traced back as a counter-balance to some other non-species-appropriate ingredient(s) in the whatever commercial food is being fed.
As for dry foods being dangerous, of course they are. Diabetes, obesity, UTIs, IBD, pacreatitis, I could go on....
Here's a great article by FNES that pulls together many different sources to help quantify the issues: The Serious Dangers of Dry Food.
As I may have mentioned before, there are already vendors who are refusing to stock dry foods. Hopefully, I'll live to see an end altogether to kibbles for kitties.
KittyQueen, as folks have already posted, I wouldn't (and don't) feed fish to my cats.
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Forgot to address the living longer statement.
Cats may very well be living longer, but not because of commercial kibble. Unfortunately, I can't find the source right now, but I saw something somewhere that addressed this topic. Kibble makers want the public to believe it, of course, so it's an oft-repeated refrain, but it isn't true as written.
Here it is... an excerpt from Elizabeth Hodgkins, DVM, book, "Your Cat: Simple New Secrets to a Longer, Stronger Life" cats live longer today because of commercial pet food false
Cats may very well be living longer, but not because of commercial kibble. Unfortunately, I can't find the source right now, but I saw something somewhere that addressed this topic. Kibble makers want the public to believe it, of course, so it's an oft-repeated refrain, but it isn't true as written.
Here it is... an excerpt from Elizabeth Hodgkins, DVM, book, "Your Cat: Simple New Secrets to a Longer, Stronger Life" cats live longer today because of commercial pet food false
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... Try WORLDWIDE and DECADES of research
My idea of qualitative analysis = at least 3 sources COMPLETELY agreeing ...
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Seems if you had been reading we said the same thingOriginally Posted by Auntie Crazy
I should have said, "Can't properly digest grains, etc."
It's tough to believe, I know, but research into a cat's digestive processes will show that cat's have no biological need whatsoever for fruits, veggies and grains. They evolved to get what they need from prey, from their meat, their bones and their organs, and they don't have the necessary enzymes to properly digest fruits, veggies and grains.
And while these products may SEEM to have a positive effect sometimes, that effect can generally be traced back as a counter-balance to some other non-species-appropriate ingredient(s) in the whatever commercial food is being fed.
As for dry foods being dangerous, of course they are. Diabetes, obesity, UTIs, IBD, pacreatitis, I could go on....
Here's a great article by FNES that pulls together many different sources to help quantify the issues: The Serious Dangers of Dry Food.
As I may have mentioned before, there are already vendors who are refusing to stock dry foods. Hopefully, I'll live to see an end altogether to kibbles for kitties.
KittyQueen, as folks have already posted, I wouldn't (and don't) feed fish to my cats.
The link is a good start on data but far from what I consider well rounded and validating
I am going to try and keep this somewhat neutral. If you don't know, I am a raw advocate. But I do give credit to the AAFCO for keeping cats alive for the 85+ years since they have been in business. If you look at all of the discussions in previous threads, on this board. Some of us have concluded that cats may not be thriving on some of the commercial products available to us.
I to believe that cats really don't have the all of the hardware, or the biological need, for any plant material. There is a clue that they once may have semi depended on a small amount of plant material. The simple fact that their pancreas produces a small amount of amylase. This may be attributed to their ancestors figuring out that prey contained about 3-5% plant material. They may have adjusted their biological process to utilized everything they possibly could for the sake of survival. IMO the fact that they don't produce saliva amylase and don't have the right teeth for grinding. Means to me that they aren't expecting to consume large amounts of plant material. When the plant material is converted there are other bodily functions that may shed light on whether plant material is beneficial or not.
I sometimes use the AAFCO profiles, not perfect but its a minimum starting point, to determine needs. If you go through the list. You will find every nutrient can be found in meat, fat, organs, and bones. So the biological need of plant material can be questioned. Plants can take care of most protein, energy, vitamins and minerals. But that's a debated topic.
Mine get raw fish, only ones low on the food chain, once a week.
Anyway, take care
I to believe that cats really don't have the all of the hardware, or the biological need, for any plant material. There is a clue that they once may have semi depended on a small amount of plant material. The simple fact that their pancreas produces a small amount of amylase. This may be attributed to their ancestors figuring out that prey contained about 3-5% plant material. They may have adjusted their biological process to utilized everything they possibly could for the sake of survival. IMO the fact that they don't produce saliva amylase and don't have the right teeth for grinding. Means to me that they aren't expecting to consume large amounts of plant material. When the plant material is converted there are other bodily functions that may shed light on whether plant material is beneficial or not.
I sometimes use the AAFCO profiles, not perfect but its a minimum starting point, to determine needs. If you go through the list. You will find every nutrient can be found in meat, fat, organs, and bones. So the biological need of plant material can be questioned. Plants can take care of most protein, energy, vitamins and minerals. But that's a debated topic.
Mine get raw fish, only ones low on the food chain, once a week.
Anyway, take care
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Mine get fish too, once a week. Most raw feeders I know feed it a few times a month.
It should be noted that CANNED fish can cause awful bouts of diarrhea in alot of cats... too much salt, mercury, etc. Mine love fish but don't react in a pleasing manner during the litterbox visits several hours later.
Against fish for cats, on this decent feline nutrition blog: http://catnutrition.wordpress.com/20...ding-for-cats/
I still give mine a small treat of raw fish (pure meat pieces) once or twice a month, because they love it and very small pieces don't upset their tummies, but they definitely DON'T get the juice from the canned fish anymore (which is soooo bad for them).
Against fish for cats, on this decent feline nutrition blog: http://catnutrition.wordpress.com/20...ding-for-cats/
I still give mine a small treat of raw fish (pure meat pieces) once or twice a month, because they love it and very small pieces don't upset their tummies, but they definitely DON'T get the juice from the canned fish anymore (which is soooo bad for them).
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What fish are you feeding ?? Just an FYI ???
This article is correct. But really only in excessive amounts. If you have varied diet and feed fish(low food chain) in moderation the chance of cats developing those problems IMO is low. I think the biggest thing we have to worry about are parasites in fish. Especially whole fish. Some of the ones in fish are hard to freeze out. Cooking is really the only way to take care of them. But every diet, including commercial and certain ingredients, has risks. We just have to decide what risks we are willing to take.
I usually feed sardines. Sometimes I find good deals on mackerel or herring.
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- #32
Ok, so I have come to the conclusion through lots of reading that NOTHING on the shelf is good enough. I can't find anything with the quality ingredients I want if it has grain in it. The only food that are "grain free" are full of "meal" and "products" that I will not be feeding my cat.
Yes, Ideally I will feed an all raw diet, and I honestly believe I WILL. But I need to start slowly.
To update the fish thing, I have quick frozen deveined shrimp. Not whole fish.. I mean I COULD get fish, but I have shrimp is kinda my question. I know mercury and all that is bad. I also have access to mussles, oysters and all sorts of fish. I can get chicken and mice (haven't tried one yet but will very soon)
I'm going to try a piece of chicken within the next day or so. I bought chicken legs and I figured I'd cut some of the meat off and see if he'll even eat it.. before I give him the whole leg.
My cat still wont eat half the wet food I give him because he is so darn picky. Tried to give him shrimp tilapia from By Nature... sniffed it and walked away. The only thing I can get him to REALLY eat is Meow Mix market selects.. which really aren't half bad if you read the ingredients. He doesn't really like Wet food from Blue, By Nature, Avo Derm, and many other versions of organic food. Sigh.
Its as if he knows that I'll give him good stuff if he doesn't eat the other stuff... because I want him to eat, so I'll give him what I know he'll eat if he walks away from what I give him first.
He gets wet food in the morning and kibble free fed during the day. he is a 15.5-16 pound Bombay (pure black and way too smart) Neutered male. A few pounds over weight... but his fur looks BEAUTIFUL on Blue.
Yes, Ideally I will feed an all raw diet, and I honestly believe I WILL. But I need to start slowly.
To update the fish thing, I have quick frozen deveined shrimp. Not whole fish.. I mean I COULD get fish, but I have shrimp is kinda my question. I know mercury and all that is bad. I also have access to mussles, oysters and all sorts of fish. I can get chicken and mice (haven't tried one yet but will very soon)
I'm going to try a piece of chicken within the next day or so. I bought chicken legs and I figured I'd cut some of the meat off and see if he'll even eat it.. before I give him the whole leg.
My cat still wont eat half the wet food I give him because he is so darn picky. Tried to give him shrimp tilapia from By Nature... sniffed it and walked away. The only thing I can get him to REALLY eat is Meow Mix market selects.. which really aren't half bad if you read the ingredients. He doesn't really like Wet food from Blue, By Nature, Avo Derm, and many other versions of organic food. Sigh.
Its as if he knows that I'll give him good stuff if he doesn't eat the other stuff... because I want him to eat, so I'll give him what I know he'll eat if he walks away from what I give him first.
He gets wet food in the morning and kibble free fed during the day. he is a 15.5-16 pound Bombay (pure black and way too smart) Neutered male. A few pounds over weight... but his fur looks BEAUTIFUL on Blue.
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- #33
So, I tried to give my cat sardines today.. it didn't work. He licked the sauce and thats it.
So, then I tried the raw chicken leg. cut off pieces and then put the sardine juice on them. He sniffed it and walked away.
So, I found a feed store with ready made raw frozen packs. I'll try those.
Any suggestions on how to transition a very picky cat?
So, then I tried the raw chicken leg. cut off pieces and then put the sardine juice on them. He sniffed it and walked away.
So, I found a feed store with ready made raw frozen packs. I'll try those.
Any suggestions on how to transition a very picky cat?
Did you try putting small chunks in his wet food?
Good Luck!
Good Luck!
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- #35
I should try that next. I figure I'll try some hamburger and some liver first, and then a mouse.. and see if he'll eat any of that.
Key thing is to be patient and persistent. Cats can be picky as you are finding out. Some people report that it took them months to transition their cats to raw food. People who want to go from dry to raw sometimes have the toughest time. They sometimes have to go from dry to wet, then wet to raw.
Good luck. And, if you can, keep us in the loop.
Good luck. And, if you can, keep us in the loop.
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- #37
Alright... I have been doing a bunch of work with his diet. I went to a feed store and found some Evo and Instinct dry food, which he seems to like. His tastes have increased for wet food, he ate tiki cat, authority, Sheba, meowmix, taste of the wild, and a number of other random ones, but I have figured out his preferences. It does matter the brand, but much more so, he just prefers chicken/turkey and some salmon and tuna, but definitely chicken or turkey. I bought a couple cans of Ziwipeak which I didn't think he would eat because its full of tripe and organ meat, but I mixed a little bit into one he likes, and he did eat it, so tomorrow he'll get more. I haven't tried much raw lately as now I've decided he basically needs to go on a diet, so I've started measuring his food intake (see post on regular nutrition board "timed feedings vs. free feeding") So I'm currently mixing blue, instincts, and Evo all together and giving him less of what he used to get (free feeding). And I do still want to switch him to raw, and I think it'll be easier now that he eats more wet food. If I can get him to eat ziwipeak without having to mix it with anything, THEN I think I'll be able to switch him to raw.
But again, he won't eat plain cooked chicken, raw chicken, raw mice, sardines, ground beef, ground turkey... or basically anything else healthy for him.
Can I give him raw chicken liver? The grocery store has a big container for just over a dollar. But wasn't sure if he's eat them or if they were good.
But again, he won't eat plain cooked chicken, raw chicken, raw mice, sardines, ground beef, ground turkey... or basically anything else healthy for him.
Can I give him raw chicken liver? The grocery store has a big container for just over a dollar. But wasn't sure if he's eat them or if they were good.
Chicken liver can cause diarrhea - that is why most raw feeders feed liver on the bone-in days.
Have you tried mixing a tiny bit of ground into canned?
I just got Cleo transitioned onto raw. She went from all dry to all wet (friskies wet, but that is what she would eat). She was on all canned for two weeks before I started to give her tiny pieces of raw on a dish beside her wet food. Last night she just ate 3 oz of beef and 1 oz of turkey neck (with the bone smashed).
Cleo, for those who don't know, is one that I took in roughly two weeks ago. I already had her sister Clover and her "parents" were moving all the way across the US. Cleo doesn't travel well at all so I ended up being asked to take her.
Have you tried mixing a tiny bit of ground into canned?
I just got Cleo transitioned onto raw. She went from all dry to all wet (friskies wet, but that is what she would eat). She was on all canned for two weeks before I started to give her tiny pieces of raw on a dish beside her wet food. Last night she just ate 3 oz of beef and 1 oz of turkey neck (with the bone smashed).
Cleo, for those who don't know, is one that I took in roughly two weeks ago. I already had her sister Clover and her "parents" were moving all the way across the US. Cleo doesn't travel well at all so I ended up being asked to take her.
