Small request for some vibes?

Originally Posted by Snake_Lady

You think 4 or 5 flare ups is bad enough to warrant going in?
.....

It is harder here to get things like MRIs/CAT/specialist appts. especially without a referral..... the only time I saw professional help was when my daughter landed on my back and we had to call 911.... docs said "something pinched"...no xrays/scans/anything... just gave me muscle relaxers via a needle in the butt and thats all.

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Well, being in pain while you don't know what is wrong with your back isn't good. We have other members here who get epidural steroid injections (I'm still too much of a chicken to) that may be able to talk to you about those, should it come to that.
You do not deserve to be in pain - or more pain on top of everything else you deal with. I'm sorry to hear the TENS didn't help.

I know it's harder there, which is why you may want to get the ball rolling now. And yes, ER docs can't do squat for it - they'll drug you up and send you on your way. Orthopedic type problems need a doctor to follow your care and work with you, sometimes long term.

As for it not showing outside of a flare. As far as I know bulging disc don't suddenly stop bulging when out of a flare - I wish they did! Which is why it's easy to move wrong or strain your back and end up in a lot of pain from it. DDD generally has other signs besides disc problems, such as arthritis on the facet joints. However it may take a keen eye to notice the beginnings of that. Your husband's back may just not have had as bad of bulging discs the first time around.

Myself, I have a torn bulging disc. It's not a hernia but it leaks fluid, and that fluid really messes up the nerves it gets on (which is why a hernia is so bad). The radiologist reading my MRIs didn't see this or a lot of other fine details, it took a very thorough doctor to notice them all.
I hope you can get a doctor with similar skills.

Do you take any daily supplements? Such as a calcium+D3 supplement? glucosamine chondroitin and/or fish oil? I know the fish oil won't interact with your medications, if you're not taking it already. Some people are helped by it.


I'm sorry you had to miss your expo. Maybe send the family out to pick up a couple of movies and some food? Make a nice night at home?
I hope you get to feeling better soon, and please do try to get some sort of treatment. You may have a significant bulge in there that you don't know about, waiting till it tears or herniates is not the way to find out.

Oh Chris - this sucks! I am SO sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm so sorry you couldn't go!!

I'll tell you though, I love my doctor, but sometimes I have to push him to get things done for me. Like I'm currently in need of some major breast cancer screening (although we decided to put it off until after this baby) and he's never looked into things like genetic screening for any of his patients. I had to tell him about it (thank you ms. applegate!) and now remind him once the baby's been born, but hopefully we'll figure it out. At the same time he pushes me into doing silly things like getting flu shots .

One of my ultrasound technicians casually mentioned he couldn't see my cyst on the screen, having no idea what he was talking about I went back to my doctor to ask. Yeah baseball size cyst everyone just forgot to tell the patient about!! *facepalm* It's not like they don't have other patients, but that's sort of serious don't you think?
(Doctor immediately hopped on bored, I'm getting testing done as soon as baby is born, like mid-janurary).

My point is I think you should go back to your doctor and demand they help you, and there is nothing wrong with getting a second opinion (although finding a new doctor is NOT fun!*). I'm a pretty live & let live kinda person, but what do I get for it? A MESSED up knee that kills me every time it rains at 24. WHY didn't I go when I hurt it???

*I was 8 months pregnant with Lucas before I found an OBGYN it was RIDICULOUS!!! You may find it easier to work with the idiot you have to get him to refer you to specialists. The Ontario College of Physicians and Surgeons does have a search function for finding doctors who are accepting new patients.

I've never done anything about my back either, but it's definitely not as bad as yours, I think mine is more work related/posture. Have you seen those ads for the low-back clinics? (on omni, I think they are sponsoring). It's a really sexy idea, going in for 30 minutes and they are going to fix you up .

*vent*

This thing just does not want to go away.

I have a doc appt. in a couple hours, which will be fun to get to and will mention it to him, not that I'm holding my breath on that one..... the most he'll do is give me more meds.

I have physio tomorrow.... that is when I'm hoping that something will change. I'm hoping either my PT or the chiropractor can do something bout it. I'm also going to beg my RMT to come to my house.

It is getting better in the sense that it is not spasming as much, instead just twinging if I move wrong.... still can't walk right...can't walk standing straight up.

that it gets better before I mess up my upper back would be great. I've already flared my upper back injury, but by not walking properly its causing pain in my upper spine

Oh, I figured out why it felt like there was bruising yesterday... because there is All we can think bout is that it happened when DH was trying to massage me on Sat. (I bruise easily).

If nothing else, least I'll probally get some prescription muscle relaxers...maybe some more toradol (been on that one before for a prior flare up of this, and it seemed to help). The OTC muscle relaxers don't work.

Please wish me luck as I drive to my doc appt. then the drugstore. It's not the driving I'm worried bout, its the walking from my truck to the office, drugstore, etc. that I'm worried about.... it's rainy, thus slippery....and I really don't want to fall and hurt things more

It is definately a Monday.

- I've been icing
- using antiinflammatories
- hottub last night (felt great, but a literal pain to get in and out of without falling)
- stretching
- forcing myself to try to walk as much as possible vs laying down all day.

From the reading I've been doing on back issues, I'm pretty confident its not disc related, but that it is a muscle strain or sprain from overdoing it on Wed. and just the way I moved on Sat. tore something that wasn't torn as bad. If I'm right (which I think I am) it could take a bit to heal

I can say it is worse than the last time it happened, but my health is also worse now...so its to be expected...

I really dislike mondays

go kick your doctors butt into making you feel better!

My back sends to your back. I still have problems from an auto accident in 2006.

Get better

I'm so sorry to hear about your crappy weekend. It just figures when you've got a big thing planned, you all of a sudden can't move. I hope your dr. appointment today yields some sort of results for you. Best of luck!!

I hope you GET to the Doc without incident! And I hope he decides to get some imaging done - I mean - don't they need to know what is causing the problem???????????? Ya'd think.

all goes your way today!

Originally Posted by Snake_Lady

From the reading I've been doing on back issues, I'm pretty confident its not disc related, but that it is a muscle strain or sprain from overdoing it on Wed. and just the way I moved on Sat. tore something that wasn't torn as bad. If I'm right (which I think I am) it could take a bit to heal

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But it's a chronic problem. So either you have the worst luck or something actually wrong with your spine that flares up. As for the bruising, maybe. I probably should have warned you, if there's acute inflammation you either need someone trained to massage properly or avoid it all together because you'll get supersensitive spots.
I don't let DH touch my lower back, he uses too much pressure and it's just not worth the torture.

I hope you get something done at the doc, at least an order for an MRI. Seems odd that you have a doc more willing to throw pain meds at you than try to find the problem - here, because of government pressures, they don't like to give out pain meds that often.

Doc gave me muscle relaxers for it

Bottom line is, the difference between prior to my appt and now is that now I have prescription muscle relaxers.

sidenote: my pain meds are a whole different story, and something I've had to fight for (they are not related to this, they are due to the chronic pain and physical disabilities I have). But no, pain meds are NOT given out freely, even to those legitamite cases of people who need them. I've had to fight for pain relief medication.

But aside from narcotics, yes, docs here would rather through pills at something than find out why. Muscle relaxers/antiinflammatories, etc. are prescribed quite easily.

I don't know that I would class this as chronic. It occurs way too infrequently IMO to be classed as chronic. But in the sense that it has repeated itself, if that is the whole part of "chronic" that is being looked at, ok, I can agree. I view chronic as just that, something that occurs on a daily or frequent basis.... once a yr or less, I don't count as chronic. What I experience on a daily basis with my upper back, and arms, now that is chronic.

I know it sounds like I'm being stubborn, but really I'm not.... if doc scheduled me for a scan, then I would be happy about it. It sure would be nice to know why my luck sucks LOL. If this were to become more frequent, then I'm sure or at least I would hope, that he would do more testing.


re: bruising/massage..... No, the massaging did not hurt me....it actually helped clear out some knots, unfortunately its not an area he normally massages and now I have 6 or 7 little bruises.... only on the one side though.... very bizarre. But come to think of it, its almost that time of the month, thus I'm probally heading into my iron deficiency time period which could account for the bruising.

But yah, although it felt good at the time, and relieve some of the tension, I think I probally shouldn't have let him massage because it is indeed inflammed.

I did have a bunch of testing when I first boogered up my upper back in May 2006..... including a bone scan..... nothing abnormal showed up. My uppper back is a upper thoracic strain that has never healed. (hmmmmm, maybe some testing to figure out why my muscles/tendons/ligaments are prone to injury would be good..... OR as my hubby suggests, put me in a bubble). The only reason I got some extensive testing then was because it was WSIB requesting it, not my family doc.

I'm fairly confident that this is muscular..... not 100% but close. Why I repeatedly pull muscles n' such, I do not know. That said, I am going to see if the chiropractor can see me tomorrow because the one thing I did learn when going thru crap with the upper back is that as soon as you have a muscular issue in your back, it can play and pull on your spine, throwing things out of alignment, etc. And with the way I've been walking, I have no doubt that the possibility exists that other problems are arising because of this.

back on the med topic:

I've come to find that certain medications are harder to get in the US, than here.... example: the one I take daily for anxiety..... no issues getting it here.. it's almost "handed" out. But a friend in the US switched docs, and had a heck of a time getting the same med that I have no probs with. (the med in question was clonazepam aka klonopin) But I've also seen the opposite case where there was no prob getting one med in the US but probs getting it here.

I think some of it might have to do with the way medications are legislated in Canada vs US.

I think benzodiazepines are harder to get in the US vs Canada.

Narcotics are quite difficult to get here, and the hoops one needs to jump through once you've become tolerant of one med and need to change to another, are tremendous.

Antidepressents: another "easy to get prescribed" med.

Really, the only difficult ones are narcotic medications....everything else is fairly easy to be prescribed.....

clear as mud right? Sorry, combo of pain, muscle relaxers and painkillers doesn't do well with thought and concentration

Move to BC get yourself a green-prescription

I really hope you find something that works though SL, that so sucks! (Don't worry, I understood at least).

Have you been to an orthopaedist? Maybe you walk funny? I know that was my brother's problem.

Originally Posted by Nes

Move to BC get yourself a green-prescription

I really hope you find something that works though SL, that so sucks! (Don't worry, I understood at least).

Have you been to an orthopaedist? Maybe you walk funny? I know that was my brother's problem.

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muwhahaha.... Maybe I should...but I think BC is a little too rainy for my issues.

Thanks, I'm sure this will go away on its own.... I am actually gonna write note of it so I can check how frequent it does occur.

Hmmm on the walking.... I would think if that was the prob, that I'd have more probs than what I do.... but, I'll ask at the clinic tomorrow...(they have someone there who checks your gait n' such). My problems seem to lay when I move at the waist. (Sat. I was sitting and moved forward at the waist..... The fridge incident, bent at the waist.... way back when I had my daughter, all probs involved moving at the waist or lower)

I tell ya though, I will NEVER, think to myself while I'm walking behind an older person who is having problems walking, "hurry up" cuz it took me bout 5mins to get from my truck to the door of the drugstore

Originally Posted by Snake_Lady

I tell ya though, I will NEVER, think to myself while I'm walking behind an older person who is having problems walking, "hurry up" cuz it took me bout 5mins to get from my truck to the door of the drugstore

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It really puts things in perspective, doesn't it? I always walk weird due to my back and SI, sometimes it's such a bad limp that I'm crawling at a pace where 90 year olds breeze passed me.


Med wise, it seems sort of similar. Muscle relaxers are a little more difficult, aside from useless skelaxin, to get. But they also have high incidents of abuse. I hope they can help you - about the only thing they do for me is cause bad side effects now and make me sleepy.

And sure, you sound stubborn. Don't take this the wrong way but you come across in a lot of your posts as a stubborn person. But that's not necessarily a bad personality trait (certainly one I would never hold against anyone), it's better than being weak and letting everyone push you around. So be stubborn, it's good for you and probably the only thing keeping you moving instead of giving up. Just don't forget you need to bring that out at the docs, too!

Chronic just means long standing and reoccurring - from a medical standpoint. I had chronic gallbladder problems for years, that didn't mean I was in pain and unable to eat every single day.
I hope you don't have another daily (or near daily) pain to add to your list.

2006 will be four years ago in a few months.. (wow, where does the time go?!) Things change.
And you're right about muscle problems. If you could get as many vitamin, minerals, proteins, and amino acids tested as possible maybe you'll find a cause or something off. High homocysteine levels, for example, can cause problems with collagen and elastin (and through that issues with muscles and a high risk of cardiovascular problems). You haven't noticed any of your joints feeling "looser" lately, have you?

Lower back pain is a funny animal. Gary has his master jump wings - 385 jumps - so as you can imagine, his back and knees are shot. He has for fused discs and no cartiledge in his knees. His back goes "out" 2x - 3x/year. It can be a fall that triggers it - or it can be a simple bending down to get something or standing at the sink washing dishes - and "something" happens.

He used to be a big believer in "walking it off," until one of his Docs and I prevailed upon him several occurrances ago to just TRY staying off it (as much as possible) for a few days. He did. After three days, he could move around gently without a lot of pain.

He has chronic back pain - not like you do Chris - but when his back goes "out" it is intense and goes into spasm - always in pretty much the same place. And it is muscular. But movement is near impossible - finding a comfortable position is often difficult. ...and once you find one, it can be intensely painful to change positions or get up.

But when he did give it the three days off his feet, it REALLY helped. Also put heat on it - didn't alternate hot and cold. If he could take anti-inflammatories, they'd probably help - at least a little.

So maybe the muscle relaxers will help.

But now that I'm reading this - it sounds very much like the "my back went out!" kind of thing. Which is muscular - does cause INTENSE pain - and does make it impossible to move around for a few days. If you do NOT stay off your feet, and the more you move around - the longer it takes for the spasm to stop.

Chris have you tried acupuncture?? for when it it bad, my mam has terrible back flare ups and she has found that really helps after a session or two. btween her last flare up and this is was about 3 years ago so shes opted for acupunture again

Originally Posted by LDG

But now that I'm reading this - it sounds very much like the "my back went out!" kind of thing. Which is muscular - does cause INTENSE pain - and does make it impossible to move around for a few days. If you do NOT stay off your feet, and the more you move around - the longer it takes for the spasm to stop.

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But both act the alike. DH had to leave work early today because of a bad flare up and because his back wouldn't quit spasming. His is definitely bulging disc pressing on nerves. Past spine injuries can permanently damage nerves and will affect how your muscles rebuild/pull on those areas. Having weakened muscles will also allow injury to discs.
I have two vertebra that are naturally fused together, it results in the muscles above it not being as tight and stable as they should be and allowing more mobility - which in turn sets me up for chronic disc problems. It goes round and round, a bit of a chicken and the egg type issue.

Again, an MRI is needed because until then everything is just speculation.

Originally Posted by strange_wings

It really puts things in perspective, doesn't it? I always walk weird due to my back and SI, sometimes it's such a bad limp that I'm crawling at a pace where 90 year olds breeze passed me.

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Indeed it does. Of course, me being who I am, tend to go deep and as much as I hate saying it.... It takes something like this to bring other things into perspective.... even as simple as this. I can imagine how funny I look when I'm walking, and if someone had laughed I'd be peeved. But then I think back when I myself have laughed at others.

And sure, you sound stubborn. Don't take this the wrong way but you come across in a lot of your posts as a stubborn person. But that's not necessarily a bad personality trait (certainly one I would never hold against anyone), it's better than being weak and letting everyone push you around. So be stubborn, it's good for you and probably the only thing keeping you moving instead of giving up.

Just don't forget you need to bring that out at the docs, too!

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oh most definately.... I am a very stubborn person... but in this instance I meant it in relation to "countering" your suggestions of medical help. In this instance, it wasn't being stubborn but more of alot of it not being an option.

Yes indeedy, I'm am stubborn, which of course has its good and bad points. But indeed I have had to use it at my docs.... that was part of the reason he finally changed my other meds

Chronic just means long standing and reoccurring - from a medical standpoint. I had chronic gallbladder problems for years, that didn't mean I was in pain and unable to eat every single day.
I hope you don't have another daily (or near daily) pain to add to your list.

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Gotcha....

For sure, if it becomes a more frequently occuring issue, I will bring it up quite forcefully. I could not imagine living like this.... I will admit I am a little scared because it is lasting longer than usual. I am making a note of it in my health journal too....(my memory stinks, so its best that I write it down)

2006 will be four years ago in a few months.. (wow, where does the time go?!) Things change.
And you're right about muscle problems. If you could get as many vitamin, minerals, proteins, and amino acids tested as possible maybe you'll find a cause or something off. High homocysteine levels, for example, can cause problems with collagen and elastin (and through that issues with muscles and a high risk of cardiovascular problems). You haven't noticed any of your joints feeling "looser" lately, have you?

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Honestly, sometimes I think it would be worth it to travel to the US, pay out of pocket, for all the bloodtests imaginable. Seriously.... it would be nice to know alot more "whys". I think it would also open a door as far as medical treatments.

I haven't really noticed any difference in my joints lately, aside from the rainy weather inducing more swelling and pain.

Speaking of bloodtests: I forgot to go get some... doc ordered at my last visit because I'm concerned about the swelling in my legs (pitting edema) so he ordered bloodtests. Todays appt. nothing was mentioned of those tests Soon as I can, I'll get them done...the requisition is still in my truck.

Originally Posted by LDG

Lower back pain is a funny animal. Gary has his master jump wings - 385 jumps - so as you can imagine, his back and knees are shot. He has for fused discs and no cartiledge in his knees. His back goes "out" 2x - 3x/year. It can be a fall that triggers it - or it can be a simple bending down to get something or standing at the sink washing dishes - and "something" happens.

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That is EXACTLY how I would describe it. "Something happened" or "something went". Seriously, Sat. I was getting over my headache, feeling pretty darn good, then went to get up and something went.

I have been trying to do not much...in all honesty, theres's not much I can do. I can't do anything that requires walking.... the more I walk, the more it hurts, the hurt causes crap posture which is killing the rest of my back, flared my upper back injury, and is bothering my neck now

but there's certain things I have to do...like today, the doc appt. and going to the drugstore...... tomorrow, I have physio....

but aside from the have to's, I've been either sitting (which doesn't bother it) or laying.....

I plan on taking it easy tonight/tomorrow morning..... my physio was changed till the afternoon, so I'm resting tonight.

I don't know about the disc stuff, but if it is "just" muscular, the taking it easy to let everything "calm down," so to speak, is what will go a long way to making it hurt less quicker.

Did that make sense?

Originally Posted by Snake_Lady

I haven't really noticed any difference in my joints lately, aside from the rainy weather inducing more swelling and pain.

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RE: subborn. As long as no one describes that as your most charming personality trait, don't worry about it.

Blood tests get pricey. I had some that would have cost over $800USD without insurance! But if you truly want specific things tested for there are independent labs, in Canada too if I'm not mistaken.
Here, while not exactly a proper thing to do, some people have added stuff to their lab script to be tested for. The sheets I get and take to the lab have little boxes that only need to be checked - the sheet is already signed by the doctor. I've talked to other people who have done this, in the US and one in Australia. They were lucky that those extra tests they check did come back very abnormal - saved the docs from being too mad at them and caught health problems.

What would your doc do if you straight up requested (read: demanded) an MRI or blood tests? My docs may seem a bit hesitant at first but would write the script.

As for one's back feeling like it goes "out". That isn't just a muscle related problem, either. I've set mine off bending over to pick up a pen and from sneezing. Lesson, leave the pens on the floor for a bit - cats enjoy playing with them anyways.
When my lower back is really bad, if I stay still too long my upper back gets stiff and sore. I have no disc problems there, it's strictly scoliosis. Which is why I suggest you don't stay down too long - it's also the exact thing both my spine specialist and physical therapist told me to do. If you rest too long you simply won't get better. Joints need to move and muscles need to be stretched.
As for all the medical stuff - there are some things I can remember massive amounts of information for. Science, medicine, and history seem to record onto my brain. If I'm sharing information it's probably because I read a lot of it off NIH or pubmed, or from some journal - med journals are fun! (they study some of the strangest things sometimes)

Take care of yourself. You need to be there for your family and pets.