Comparison between grains?

Not everyone is willing or able to feed a grain free diet.

So...out of all the different grains...which are better quality? more digestible? of some nutritional value? higher allergens? to be avoided?

Corn, corn gluten meal, white rice, brown rice, pearled barley, oatmeal, oat groats, wheat gluten etc...

Thank you!

grain. But you can go to diabetic cat sites and get excellent advice on grains. My diabetic cat cannot have ANY grains at all. It really is a science on what is good for our little friends.

Corn- the whole kernel only 30-50% digestible... can be useful in UTI prevention in a dry food in moderate amounts

, corn gluten meal- the protein of the corn 66-76% digestible , can be useful in UTI prevention in a dry food in moderate amounts

, white rice- Up to 90% digestible most come in about 75-80%, used to be a lesser allergen
, brown rice- whole rice including bran which is indigestible, total is 50-70% digestible ,

pearled barley- this is a low quality barley digestablity is about 50-70%,

oatmeal- very slow digesting grain and IMHO a good one for haiballs ...

, oat groats- low quality oats ,

wheat gluten - protein of the wheat up to 85% digestible but HIGH allergen

Why do you consider oat groats low quality? Oat groats are minimally processed oats which should be a good thing. http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-oat-groats.htm

Thank you, Sharky and Farleyv.

So is the pearled barley better than corn? It is the main grain in the food I think I will switch the cats to (Fromm Duck).

Is any grain good for urinary issues or is it just corn?

Originally Posted by MissKalamata

Thank you, Sharky and Farleyv.

So is the pearled barley better than corn? It is the main grain in the food I think I will switch the cats to (Fromm Duck).

Is any grain good for urinary issues or is it just corn?

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corn is best ( no I do not know exactly why) for uti s as most foods are poultry based and it decreases certain thing s and increases others...

Barley is a wheat relative and in cats over the yrs I have seen more ALLERGY tests show wheat and barley over corn

Originally Posted by ilovemy2cats

Why do you consider oat groats low quality? Oat groats are minimally processed oats which should be a good thing. http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-oat-groats.htm

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I go of the AFFCO definition which is what the PF industry uses

Originally Posted by sharky

I go of the AFFCO definition which is what the PF industry uses

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I did a search on AAFCO pet food ingredient definitions and everything said there is no AAFCO definition for oat groats.

Originally Posted by sharky

corn is best ( no I do not know exactly why) for uti s

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Corn gluten meal is a low ash source of protein and acts as a urine acidifier in cat foods. This is why prescription foods for FLUTD cats contain corn and corn gluten as the main protein source. While not the best quality source of protein, even in non prescription foods, the use of corn gluten in small amounts offer preventive health benefits for cats. In addition, cats do not usually show signs of allergic reactions to corn products.

Do you think the type of grain will make a significant difference for a cat with bladder crystals (barley and rice instead of corn)? Magnesium is 0.08%, with lower phosphorus.

Thanks for the explanation Otto.

IMHO with crystals YES ... without it would be a toss up ... NOTE ALL rx s for Uti issues have corn even the canned

Thank you Otto as somedays my brain pulls a blank

AFFCO has a definition , about 4 yrs ago they tried to make the online a PAY only , I have read several of the books as one a yr comes out

Originally Posted by MissKalamata

Do you think the type of grain will make a significant difference for a cat with bladder crystals (barley and rice instead of corn)? Magnesium is 0.08%, with lower phosphorus.

Thanks for the explanation Otto.

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Yes indeed!

I recently tried to switch my FLUTD cat (against my vet's advice) to Wellness (which does not contain corn) which makes very big claims about preventing crystal formation.

Within 2 months Mazy's urine was full of crystals again.

Wellness lies. If your cat is healthy to begin with perhaps the Wellness or other designer food will prevent crystal formation. But if your cat has FLUTD, stick with the prescription food. It's made the way it is for a reason.

Fortunately I am the type to follow up on my cats' care, and had a urinalysis done two months after the food switch.

Now because of me, poor Mazy cat has to endure yet another trip to the vet and another cystocentesis (collecting urine from the bladder) to make sure, now that she's back on the prescription food, she's not still forming crystals.

This was an unfortunate mistake in judgment in a female. In a male it could be fatal.

Originally Posted by sharky

IMHO with crystals YES ...

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Originally Posted by otto

Yes indeed!

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Well, that sucks. I was really hoping to feed the cats all the same food. Now, they will not only be eating different foods, but I will also have to give in and feed the crystal cat something I consider untrustworthy (yep that includes Nutro)

I think the crystals were caused by a change in diet to a food with 0.12% magnesium. This food CONTAINED corn! A part of me wants to try the non-corn food anyway. Maybe we'll get lucky. The cat previously did fine on Cat Chow, but I don't want to go back to that after finding metal in the food. An all-wet diet won't work either.

Otto, did you tell Wellness about your experience? They shouldn't make false claims about their products. I actually intended to mix some Wellness into the cats' food. I guess I'll reconsider now.

Sorry for rambling and going off topic here.

Purina also makes UTI certified foods

Originally Posted by sharky

Purina also makes UTI certified foods

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I know, I'm just not too keen on Purina after finding a metal sliver in the Cat Chow. Struvite Kitty is on Purina veterinary UR diet now though. I hope she will eventually be able to eat non-rx food.

Is UTI certified the same as preventing crystals?

I hope I don't sound like I'm shooting down your suggestions or anything. I really appreciate all the questions you've answered for me. I'm just very picky about what I feed the cats.

I have emailed Wellness twice with my complaints but have received no reply.

Prescription foods are made specifically to keep the urine crystal free. It's not just about the corn, or the pH. The foods are a special formula that only FLUTD cats should eat. The help promote the proper urine acidity, yes, but also promote more frequent urination, to keep the bladder flushed.

I know other people who have tried to take their cats off prescription food with disastrous results. A friend in another forum has a male FLUTD cat. She listened to someone else the the forum tell her how "crappy" prescription food is, rather than listen to me, and started using a "better food". her cat almost died, and ended up requiring thousands of dollars in surgery.

It comes down to the lesser of two evils. Either you have a sick kitty with a lot of vet bills, or you feed him/her the "lower quality" prescription food. Prescription foods may not be the same "high quality" as the designer foods, but they are what they are for a reason.

I have had cats on different diets for so long I'm used to it now. I don't free feed anyway, never have, and each cat has his or her own Meal Spot, and no one barges in on anyone else.

Just to clarify, I'm not just going to switch to anything non-prescription until the vet says it's ok. I was talking about once the cat is done with the prescription stuff (I'm being optimistic-the crystals may be either temporary and due to diet or caused by a permanent metabolic problem. I think and very much hope it's the former...which would mean she doesn't have to eat prescription food her whole life).

Otto, what does Mazy eat?

Mazy eats Hill's prescription c/d multicare. In my experience, once a cat forms crystals, s/he needs to be on special diet for life. Mazy does well on the Hill's formula, I have to watch her weight on it, is all. But I schedule feed and make sure she gets plenty of exercise.

If I get dissatisfied with the Hill's formula for any reason, there are other brands with prescription formulas I can turn to. But Mazy will always be on prescription food now, I've learned my lesson.

Keep us updated on your kitty.

Originally Posted by MissKalamata

Well, that sucks. I was really hoping to feed the cats all the same food. Now, they will not only be eating different foods, but I will also have to give in and feed the crystal cat something I consider untrustworthy (yep that includes Nutro)

I think the crystals were caused by a change in diet to a food with 0.12% magnesium This food. CONTAINED corn! A part of me wants to try the non-corn food anyway. Maybe we'll get lucky. .

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A lot of foods do contain corn. Corn is not the only thing in prescription foods that make them "special". the foods are super low in magnesium(.08%) and phosphorous (.85%), sodium (.2%) and calcium (.5 %), and specially formulated to promote more frequent urination.

While diet is very important for an FLUTD kitty, it is also crucial that weight is controlled, water consumption is high, and vigorous exercise is done daily.

IMO any wet food will help crystal pron kitties. http://www.peteducation.com/article....+2142&aid=2729 . Everything you are trying to prevent in the diet is most of the time dealt with when there is an increase of moisture. Moisture dilutes the urine and flushes it out more often. This really can't be accomplished with an all dry food diet. This is really not the route your going but I thought I would chime in.

Good luck.