Let's talk about abusive relationships

I'm sure that's not quite what MB ment but you're right otto lots of men get caught in abussive relationships as well.

There are many many kinds of abuse, emotional, physical, financial. I happen to know a man right now in a very abusive relationship where his partner is completely unfaithful to him, he's accepted that and is moving on with her in the relationship for the sake of their 4 year old daughter who I fear is getting the brunt from her mother's bad behaviour.

It's very sad, but we've offered out help and when it wasn't accepted so I removed myself & my family from their situation. We don't need to get involved until he's ready to make a change. Regardless of the fact that he's been a BF of hubby's for years, you can't make people do things they don't want to; even if it's in their best interests.

Yes, you're right. It has come up far too often recently. I'm going to generalize here, so please don't take offense. It is not directed to anyone personally, just my observation, being of an older generation.

Our moral standards have changed over the past 50 years. It is no longer a disgrace to live together without being married, or to have children without being married (thanks Hollywood). So if it is ok for the celeb set, then it is ok for us normal folks. It has almost become a badge of "adulthood" or independence to hook up, shack up and/or have kids regardless of marital state.

The problem is that many young women (and a few men too) are unwilling to know themselves and go through the maturity process before attaching to someone else who is equally immature. That's what got me into my first marriage. I was looking for someone to take care of me. My father died, I was an only child of an older mother, no siblings, and no direction from my parents to stay in school and make my own way in the world.

While I can look back and know it was a mistake now, I didn't have the guidance I needed THEN to keep me from making this mistake. Then you got married. Today you just shack up.

If I could just plea with others not to make the same mistakes, I would just beg all of you, don't rush into a shack up or nesting relationship because you think it will be "happy ever after." It isn't.

Be happy with yourself. Make your OWN goals and achieve them first. Finish school. Find a career that satisfies you and earns enough money to live ON YOUR OWN. Be happy in your own skin. Reach for your dreams, and don't be afraid of being independent. It is only after knowning that you can make yourself happy, that you can open that horizon to include another person who is just as happy in his own skin and with his own acomplishments to not be dependent on YOU.

The best and most long lasting relationships come from two mature people who come together AFTER living independently and having their own accomplishments. Two dependent immature people who look for fulfillment in the other person will always be disappointed. The lust, the excitement, the great sex will wear off, and unless you have built a strong foundation based on maturity, trust and common goals, there will be disappointment that could lead to infidelity and hostility.

Actually, I meant that most guys see that some other guys are bad news, and we see it right away. We don't have to wait for them to beat up a girl; we know the pattern. But no matter what we say, the girl we're warning will say, "Oh, no, you're just jealous," or, "I don't believe you; he's different when we're alone." Stuff like that.

Most of the women who replied said the same thing I said. Ditch the loser, already. You're only buying future misery with present peace. He will bend you every way he can, forcing you to call him all the time, accusing you of infidelity or whatever, in order to make you bow to his will. This is controlling behavior, and it almost always ends in heartache, if not actual physical injury.

Believe me, we told my brother's wife not to marry him. She didn't believe us, and she had 3 years of misery and another 20 years of problems with non-support, etc.

It's because guys are in general more pragmatic and calculating. Us women are more emotional- we may see a pattern and think "but he's going through so much right now, it's only understandable", etc, etc and we are always willing to give second chances. It's almost the same thing as that maternal instinct that all women have to care for someone just because we've set our mind to it, and care unconditionally and always forgive mistakes. Men are genetically more programmed to see the pros and cons and make a decision that's in their best interest. Lol I hope I don't get labeled sexist for saying this.

I think the only women who can't see it are the ones involved with the guy. I went through one relationship like that, years ago, and can almost smell mean on a man now.

My middle daughter has a history of hooking up with guys like that, and never realizes until too late that he's the same man, different face. Every violent man she has been with I warned her at the start, and she still thinks I don't see him like she does. She's right, I put away my rose tinted stoner shades in the seventies.

I just drew her considerable wrath by telling her 13 year old son to not try and defend her when the newest one shows his true colors. I told him to take his sister, take his cell phone, get out, call 911 and Nana when the inevitable happens. He's a small boy for his age and totaly devoted to his Mom. He does not need to get hurt too, just because she made another bad choice.

She is furious and the guy is insulted. He would NEVER be like that. Uh huh. His every move and word screams wound too tight control freak. Granted, she is the kind that if a man has it in him she is the one to bring it out, but what on earth would be wrong with a man who doesn't have it in him to begin with? It wouldn't matter what I said or did to DH, the worst he would do is walk away. Maybe stay gone if it were bad enough, but he'd never put his hands on me in anger. That works both ways of course, if I couldn't live with him without hitting him I wouldn't live with him.

Sorry for the vent, but this thread hit at a timely moment.

I have discovered that many of the women of my generation, born in 1958, were the last of those raised to be good, obedient wives, no matter what. That left many of us us open to many years of abuse and misery. Being from the South, I have also found that way of thinking more prevalent here than in other parts of the country I have lived in.
When I came out of high school, I was ill equipped to handle the world beyond. I was not taught to handle money, not encouraged to get an education. My parents felt that education was wasted on girls who would just marry and have families. I left home at 18 with the first guy that I thought would take care of me and walked right in to my first violent, abusive relationship. It lasted 4 years until he was killed in a motorcycle wreck.
2 years later I went in to another violent, abusive relationship. This one tried to kill me, scarred my face, and beat the crap out of regularly because he said I was his property and I had to do what he wanted. He hit me the first time at our wedding reception when he found out my parents did not have a lot of money. I don't know why he thought they did. That one lasted 3 years until only because I had to pick the right time to leave or I was afraid he would kill me or harm our daughter.
I left him with my current DH of 24 mostly wonderful years. It was not all fun and games to begin with. He was raised in a home where his stepfather abused his mother. He slapped me one time and knocked me down, and the look of horror on is face was enough for me to be sure he would never do it again. He cried over it more than I did. I chose to give him another chance, and he has never raised a hand to me again.
We still fought like maniacs for several years, but now we have an argument once or twice a year. It is mostly peaceful and drama free here, and we are very committed, even though we have never actually done the paperwork to be married.
It takes a lot of work, be the cycle of accepting abuse and violence can change.
Sorry for the long post! Thanks for reading.

I think often too, women can see through a woman that is a user when guys can't seem to see it. I read somewhere years ago that they had found problems with trained staff in an institution that housed sociapaths. They sometimes could con staff members of the opposite sex where they wouldn't be able to con staff members of the same sex. That is a situation with people who are trained and know the problems that the people they are dealing with have.

I think guys are more afraid of admitting they are being bullied, abused, by a woman - its about ego.

I was in an abusive first marriage (not physical but verbal/emotional) for 15 yrs. I knew something was wrong but had no real clue what it was or what to do. I never encountered any kind of abuse as a child and knew about physical.

But verbal/emotional is very different then physical abuse. Its sneaky and can take longer to recognize the signs that are there. Most times with verbal you are lead to believe its your fault and if you change, the abuser will change and things will be better.

But they never are. It just gets worse and worse and many time it evolves into physical abuse too. I was lucky it never got to that point - but the ex did punch a few holes in the wall!

Chatting online helped me see that I was in an abusive situation and I also got out the book Abuse Survivors Speak Out by Patricia Evans. That book saved my life and got me out of the marriage.

I can now spot those abuse signs in a relationship and hope that maybe I can help another get out of the situation too.

I'm so embarrassed to admit this publicly, but I actually caught a segment of the Tyra Show last week (it's just not my thing) about men having temper tantrums. Or "ManTrums" .

I'd be far more interested in a serious show doing a follow up on this sort of thing because it was very insightful and a little familiar. I've seen every man (family/friends/partners) in my life throw one of these when they get to a point where they are stressed out and can no longer cope with the situation. Things get hurled, words get said, they stomp around like bull elephants in heat looking for something to take their frustrations out on.

I think behaviour like this is one of the reason woman have a hard time accepting when they are in a true abusive relationship, as opposed to just dealing with a rather immature man.

I really believe a large part of why we see so many abusive men is the way we culturally raise little boys. Be tough, be strong, use your fists, not your words. Even if it's the opposite of what you are SAYING to your boy, what does every super hero on TV do to catch the bad guy? How many of them really use their WORDS? (and I'm just using television as an example here for a mirror on our cultures, I really don't think TV makes bad children or bad people).

It's a big point of contention in this house since we are raising (soon to be two) a little boy. I want him to know, you fall down you get back up, but if you're sad or you actually hurt yourself, it's ok to run to mommy for a hug. Something doesn't go your way, you don't get mad, you accept why things are they way they are (Like a woman!!!). I want my son to talk through his problems like his dad, not bottle them up then EXPLODE like my brothers.

Back the mantrum thing, with years of experience I can tell you there is only one way to stop them from being such idiots. You square up, look them in the eye and tell them to stop being heads and then give them a time-out to go cool off. Works on my 16 month old son (ok I don't call him names though!!) works on my 60 y/o father.

On a side note: I don't think there is ANYTHING wrong with kids before marriage. Hubby and I are common-law, not married. We are in a stable long-term relationship, and lived together for a year & a half before we had our son. We have both committed ourselves to each other, we just don't have the piece of paper. We've never had the money to get married, and neither of us are religious so for me it's nothing more then a name change.

Children before marriage and abusive relationships are two completely different subjects; having children with someone does not make you more vulnerable to abuse, it does put a relationship under great strain though, and can cause things to come out that didn't before. Sadly I think there are quite a few situations where children are used in a last-chance effort to keep a man that shouldn't be kept.

I know a couple who dated for 6 weeks before they got engaged and are happily married for 5 years now with 2 kids. I know a couple who were engaged after a 7 year relationship and broke up for 'no-reason-given' (man's idea). I know a couple who have been together for 9 years now, not married, renting an appartment, their biggest commitment to each other is a dog. We're all different .

I completely agree with DM about having to make yourself happy. If you find the right person who is supportive of your goals in life, I don't think there is anything wrong with picking up a travelling companion on your way. Ultimately it fall on our own shoulders to do the things in life that will make it well lived.

If you've got someone who's not only willing, but encouraging of you, to help you build your barn, they're worth hanging on to (My dream).

I'm sure we can all find instances that go against the norm. My daughter was happpily married at 5 years, but is now getting a divorce at 15 years of marriage and two children. There are no guarantees in marriage. People who knew my dau. and SIL would have bet that they would be celebrating 50 years together.

There was a case in the news recently where a couple got married at their son's funeral (age 7) because he wanted them to get married, so maybe it is important, at least to some children.

Getting married takes what? $25 and a trip to the courthouse?

But yes, this is a somewhat different topic than abuse. It's just that a person can become attached to an abuser if they hook up too quickly without knowing each other for several months, or long enough to have disagreements to see the tendancy for the abuse to surface. I just think if you meet someone and two weeks later are living together, you don't know the person well enough to know if he is going to be an abuser or a controller. You need to spend enough time together to see each other under stress and disappointment and even disagreement before you can truly *know* someone enough to commit to a serious relationship.

I'm glad that you and your SO are happy and I hope that you will have many happy years together.

Couldn't agree with you more DM .

I wish there was more we (as a society) could do to protect & prepare our young people. I believe I got my own strength from my mother, and maybe that is the only way to really pass on that information.

I've certainly met my share of woman who are more then happy to be in abusive relationship as long as they are with someone. Something I simply don't understand!! And maybe I'm a bit of a B.I.T. but I've never had a man raise his voice against me that didn't immediately get it right back.

I used to try to help everyone one of these woman before they got hurt, but I've learned you can't NOT change people. You can give them advice, offer them help then nod politely when they come back (hopefully) with "how did you know?".

I have one friend now who has been mulling over returning to her LOSER ex because she's lonely and he's good with her 3 year old. I've been pulling my hair out trying to get her to find someone new!! But ultimately it's her life.

I wish abusive relationships were easy to get out of. Its harder than you would think. Atleast from me. Bf was diff when we met sweet kind loving. His ex said he used to hit her but I didnt believe it. He hast hit me yet..But sometimes I look into his eyes when we are fighting and I can see the rage radiating from them. My mom hates him he hates my mom and right now I wish I would have listened to her from the beginning. I cant have friends I cant talk to anyone I have to talk to people at work because thats the only place I have alone time. And I feel guiltly because I wanted to leave before but I wanted to wait till I got my car in my name because if I would have left before he wouldnt have given me my car. I wasnt even allowed to have a key to it till I got my license back and it in my name! Now its one more fight after another and I just cant bring myself to care enough anymore to try and see if he will change..Ive compeltely given up and am nothing but depressed anymore! Im hoping tonight I can just leave and not come back. Im calling my mom again to talk to her when I go to work so I can have private time! I do love all of you on here and I appreciate all your advice and trust me Im going to listen!!

Tyler NO ONE is going to debate with you how hard it can be to give up that many years, the love that was once there and get away from an abusive guy.

What I don't understand is women (or men) who actively seek out an abusive type of partner, knowing what the results will be. If you know puting your hand on the hot stove is going to result in a burn, why do it over & over again? The attention is not worth it! Boring guys, good guys, are WAY more fun.

I really hope, when the time is right, you find a wonderful partner who loves you, encourages you & treats your properly. For now, celebrate your new-found independance! You're free!! free to do what you want and not listen to that any more!! ;D

You can't go back and change the past, but the rest of your life starts TODAY! The question for you to ponder is how many more years are you willing to throw away on a dead end relationship? These are the best years of your life! This is the time when you could be meeting a decent man with no abusive background, and no abusive addictions that loves you for YOU and is willing to make a future for you and raise children with you!

The fact that your mother doesn't like your deadbeat BF and he doesn't like her is a HUGE RED FLAG! Mothers only want the best for their children and for their children to live happily ever after. She loves you unconditionally. No one else loves you like she does. Listen to her. Listen to your friends. Listen to your forum friends, and get out while you still can.

Yeah I wish I would have listened to her before...Im going to be moving forward from this point on and starting with living with my babies ALONE and not having a BF for a while....I just feel stupid being 25 I should know better not making excuses for him...But Im off to work for my alone time and to figure things out. Ive packed a bag to take with me in case I dont come back here tonight!

Good for you! Take care of yourself first. We are here to cheer you on!

Unfortunately some people feel that they deserve no better. That is why they continue to be in abusive relationships.

Or: they were brought up in an abusive household, that is all they know. It is sad, but people do become used to and expectant of "what they know".

Or: they believe they can change that person... The thoughts of "he/she won't do that to me, because they love me" "s/he will change for me" etc.

Its not usually an attention thing, it is low self esteem, upbringing, etc.

Abuse is a viscious cycle that is incredibly hard to break.

Yes, The abuse cycle is very hard to break. I had 2 very abusive marriages. I went from the frying pan into the fire so to speak. Abusers are predators, they seek out their prey and know what what they are looking for. I felt like the biggest magnet for these type of men. There was something in my personality that was attracting them. I went from a horrible 16 year marriage that I finally got free of, to another man who knew how to play the role of fixing the wounded spirit until his true colors showed. There are signs to look for, and red flags but some of these abusers are very charming at first, and can be real clever in the traps they set.

Thank god I did break the cycle, but I also think I got very fortunate to have the man I am married to now. He is not an abuser and is very good to me. Today is our 4th wedding Anniversary!!! I have been with him for 6 1/2 years.

My friend had a crazy story to tell me today and I just don't know what to think!! I mean..it's simply crazy I think it's both their fault..but she said, she unplugged her boyfriend's computer because she was upset he was on for too long, and then he got mad and she hit him, he hit her back which freaked her out so she started hitting him really hard and then he threw her on the bed and walked out, she started crying and he came back in a few minutes apologizing and being sweet...
I don't know if he is an abuser or they are both abusers!! I told her to just get away and move out because they are too violent and will end up killing each other...
But all this got me thinking is it always one person who is the abuser or is it sometimes blurred where both people are abusing each other??

Wow! She just unplugged his computer? She could have damaged programs by doing that. I don't blame him for getting mad. She had no right to hit him but on the other hand he should have walked away and not hit back. I think they both need to re-think their relationship for sure.

Yea, she unplugged it because she told him several times to get off the computer because she wanted to talk to him and he just never listened and him being on the computer for too long is always an issue for them. They are both fighting in really nasty mean ways. But it got me thinking, usually my rule is if someone hits me I'm out...but at the same time I know that if someone hit me, I'd defend myself with all of my strength which probably means me becoming violent. So in the end, is it the person who hits first who the abuser is, does it make it okay to hit if you were hit first?? I'm thinking yes, I dunno I'm trying not to think in sexist ways because I know the difference in strength between men and women varies with individuals and is not significant enough to say that men are stonger..

Violence is NEVER the answer

I don't care if she unplugged his computer, big freaking deal; that is NO excuse to hit her, even if she started it. Frankly I don't care if she grabbed the entire tower and chucked it out the window.

Those two definitely need some time a part.

They should split up because they're both behaving like jerks and no one should be with a jerk. OTOH, if they stay together after that, they deserve each other for the duration of the time they continue to choose it (i.e. until they grow up and realize they shouldn't be with a jerk).