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Iris' color/pattern

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
When Iris was born several people on this forum told me that she is a brown patched tabby, which is what I've been calling her all her life, and that's what I put on the entry form for the show this past weekend. There were six rings each day for a total of twelve. She went through the first ten rings as a brown patched tabby with the judges remarking on her beautiful coloring. The 11th judge informed me in no uncertain terms that the description is not accurate. Iris is a "brown patched mackerel ticked tabby". So now I know. Well, actually I already knew she was all those things, it just never occurred to me to put everything on the entry form. My question now is, should I put the entire description down for her next show or just stick with the "brown patched tabby"?
post #2 of 24
Can a cat be mackerel and ticked at the same time? I thought those were two different tabby patterns.
post #3 of 24
Thread Starter 
Mackerel is the overall striped pattern. Ticked is the pattern on the individual hairs. Iris has hairs that alternate red and black along the shaft with a tiny white or red tip.
post #4 of 24
Ok now I'm confused... I thought "ticked" meant the cat had ticked hairs on the body instead of a striping pattern, not in addition? I've never heard of the term "mackerel ticked" before!

For example I have two mackerel tabbies who do have individual hairs which are barred or ticked with a white tip, but they also have the mackerel stripes. I thought their color was just called mackerel, not ticked? Is it both? I am entering one in a show for next month so it would be good to know! I also have two cats who are ticked tabbies (or torbie aka patched tabby in one case) but they have no stripes on their bodies.
post #5 of 24
The bands of colour on each hair are from the Agouti gene, I thought all tabbies had bands of color on the hairs in between pattern.

A patched tabby, has patches of tabby pattern on a ticked base. I have never heard ticked mackeral before.

Have you got a photo of Iris?
post #6 of 24
There are 4 kinds of tabbies and all of them really have a "ticked" pattern when you come down to it (to some degree).

Classic - bullseye pattern on the side
Spotted - spots (like a Mau or Oci)
Mackerel - vertical stripes on the side
Ticked - no stripes - just a ticked coat like an Aby or a wild rabbit.

Some people like to get a little too technical. Its kinda possible for a Mackerel Ticked tabby, but usually you just say Mackerel. My first cat, Mitten would probably be considered a borderline of mackerel and ticked. He had faint stripes (not very dominant) and more of an overall ticked pattern.
post #7 of 24
Thread Starter 
When Iris was a few weeks old her stripes had faded to the point that I thought she was going to be completely ticked. The stripes came back strong, but the ticking is still obvious in the darker areas. It's really hard to see it in the photos, though. I'm going to have to try for a close-up of her fur instead of the whole cat.

Iris at 1 year old



Cali at 1 year old. Cali looks a lot like Iris except she has more red in her.


The question is still, should I added Mackerel to her description for the next show?
post #8 of 24
She is definately a Brown MACKEREL Patched Tabby - I would never call her a mack-ticked tabby. Her pattern is what a mackerel tabby has anyway. Don't pay no mind to the judge who called her wrong.

But she is mackeral and not a classic (most times when you use "tabby" its understood as a classic tabby). If spotted or mackerel - you use that with the tabby
post #9 of 24
One of my cats is like that too, Blaze's striping is very faint on his body, but I think he's still called a brown mackerel tabby with white?


Here he is sitting next to his sibling. Blaze is on the right, and Harley on the left is a ticked torbie.






This is their other sibling Mr Grey who has more distinct striping than Blaze:

post #10 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
She is definately a Brown MACKEREL Patched Tabby - I would never call her a mack-ticked tabby. Her pattern is what a mackerel tabby has anyway. Don't pay no mind to the judge who called her wrong.

But she is mackeral and not a classic (most times when you use "tabby" its understood as a classic tabby). If spotted or mackerel - you use that with the tabby
Eleven out of twelve judges didn't have any problem with the Brown Patched Tabby label. I was just wondering if I need to add Mackerel to the description. It doesn't really make any difference for CFA since all HHP's are in the same color class.
post #11 of 24
You don't have to, but I like to be accurate. She is a Mackerel and if you show in another association, she should be entered properly
post #12 of 24
11/12 said nothing, but if you want to be super specific, "Brown patch mac tabby" and be done with it!
post #13 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
There are 4 kinds of tabbies and all of them really have a "ticked" pattern when you come down to it (to some degree).

Classic - bullseye pattern on the side
Spotted - spots (like a Mau or Oci)
Mackerel - vertical stripes on the side
Ticked - no stripes - just a ticked coat like an Aby or a wild rabbit.
And let's not forget another agoutis, shaded and chinchilla (which actually can be any of the ones mentioned above, but the amount of tipping is the key).

By the way, I was wondering that is it the same 'spot gene' which makes rosettes in Bengals, or is it new mutation or something? (Yeah, I'm not very bright... )
post #14 of 24
The rosette pattern is found in the wild cats- not the domestic. I was first thinking maybe a spot/classic tabby type of things but IMO its not one of the 4 tabby patterns.

So maybe there is a 5th pattern? Rosette?

I beg to differ on agouti with shaded/smoke. Agouti is BANDED colors - the shaded ones are one color on the bottom and another color on top of the hair shaft - not banded/alternating like it would with agouti.
post #15 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
The rosette pattern is found in the wild cats- not the domestic. I was first thinking maybe a spot/classic tabby type of things but IMO its not one of the 4 tabby patterns.

So maybe there is a 5th pattern? Rosette?

I beg to differ on agouti with shaded/smoke. Agouti is BANDED colors - the shaded ones are one color on the bottom and another color on top of the hair shaft - not banded/alternating like it would with agouti.
Smoke is non-agouti (even though they have very visible gost markikngs), but shaded is agouti. Usually all shaded cats have some ticked hairs too, but ideally the less there is them, the better the shading.
post #16 of 24
I'll have to check out a shaded coat next time I see one at that shows. Smoke and Shaded are in the same catagory because it depends on how much color is on the hair shaft.

I've never seen any banding/alternating color on a shaded cat that I remember.

I'll have to check out some of the shaded silver Maine Coons up close in the next show or so I go to
post #17 of 24
Oh, I've never seen a shaded silver Maine Coon! And I hope I never will or I'll end up owning one.... I didn't know shaded is recognized colour for them.
post #18 of 24
Most colors/patterns are accepted in Maine Coons. The ones which are not are mainly ones that would indicate outcrossing with other breeds like himilayan pattern or Aby type of ticking.
post #19 of 24
I know there are tons of shaded SILVER tabbies - and maybe that is where you get the agouti (from the tabby) - but a shaded silver has NO agouti banding. The Silver tabbies would have it simply cause of being a tabby.
post #20 of 24
The genetic 'code' for silver shaded cat is AAWbwb I I, so the wideband is the thing 'hiding' the true tabby markings. When a shaded silver is born, they usually have very clear markings (and some are mistaken as spotted or mackerel tabbies) but they disappear when the cat grows up.
post #21 of 24
From the Shaded Silver Persian/Exotic Standard

"Tipping must be at least ‘5mm’ in depth. Shading of the appropriate
colour to appear up the back of hocks.
Tarnished silver on some areas of the face while undesirable should not militate against and otherwise outstanding
exhibit, as this can be an expression of the agouti gene in shaded silvers.
NB: Colour of the Shaded silver must be very light underneath shading to silver as it rises, tipping preferably not being less
than “5mm”, giving an overall impression of soft pewter, in contrast to the sparkling appearance of the Chinchilla"

Source: Persian [http://www.nzcf.com/breeds/sop/Persian.pdf]
post #22 of 24
So would you say a shaded has alternating bands like agouti or are the tabby markings of a shaded tabby the one causing the banding?
post #23 of 24
I'm not sure if I understood the question correctly, but the difference between shaded tabby and a 'regular' shaded is the amount of banded hairs. If They have lots of them, you can see the pattern and then you can call them a shaded tabby. I have confused myself.

Here is a link, does it make any sense?
post #24 of 24
I'm getting confused now too

I always thought that tabbies (no matter what kind) had banded hairs to create the effect. Shaded was just two colors (white on the bottom, and the rest of the hair shaft is one solid color) - there is no alternating banding.

Maybe we need to call for HELP????
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