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Health Care Reform & the I.R.S. - Page 3

post #61 of 75
Thread Starter 
Democratic Senator warns of HUGE tax increases on Middle Class


It's not every day that you hear a Democratic senator charge that a fellow Democrat is proposing to raise taxes on the middle class, but that is what happened on Tuesday when Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., ripped into the health-care bill developed by Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mt., the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee.
post #62 of 75
Thread Starter 

45% Of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul

Two of every three practicing physicians oppose the medical overhaul plan under consideration in Washington, and hundreds of thousands would think about shutting down their practices or retiring early if it were adopted, a new IBD/TIPP Poll has found.

The poll contradicts the claims of not only the White House, but also doctors' own lobby — the powerful American Medical Association — both of which suggest the medical profession is behind the proposed overhaul
post #63 of 75
Wait, the sample size was nine doctors? Did I read that right? Nine whole doctors surveyed by mail (does anyone actually conduct surveys by mail these days?).

Whoa, indeed!
post #64 of 75
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by darlili View Post
Wait, the sample size was nine doctors? Did I read that right? Nine whole doctors surveyed by mail (does anyone actually conduct surveys by mail these days?).

Whoa, indeed!
No, it was, almost, 1,400 doctors.
post #65 of 75
Well, the way I read the link, the survey was mailed to approximately 1400 doctors, and they were still receiving responses - they reported one finding as the result of "Four of nine doctors, or 45%, said they "would consider leaving their practice or taking an early retirement" if Congress passes the plan the Democratic majority and White House have in mind."

Seems to be to be sort of odd wording if they meant 45% of the 1400 had said that. I mean, a sample of 9 respondents isn't exactly a huge profile of American physicians, right? and, actually, 5 of the doctors apparently didn't worry about leaving their practice or taking early retirement. Guess it depends how you read it, and how much weight you want to assign this pollster.
post #66 of 75
The way I read it the sample size is unknown. It has to be more than nine! I don't think they meant they only had nine respondents when they said "four out of nine" I think they said that to make it easy for people who dont understand what "45%" means.
post #67 of 75
I agree it's very oddly worded - most pollsters do provide number of respondents, etc. I would hope it's more than 9 respondents and they're issuing a press release, but, you never know. And, ok, I'm worried that people wouldn't understand what 45% means. I honestly bet they had 9 respondents to date but knew they wanted to provide a scary headline.

Actually, they have to know what their sample size is, wouldn't you think? - how did they come up with 4 of 9, or 45%? And wouldn't it have made more sense to say something like 45% of their 1400 received responses, or 630 doctors said bla bla bla.

I myself wouldn't assign much weight to this particular poll - or think they have a lousy writer on staff.
post #68 of 75
Thread Starter 
I have always asked myself the question: why would doctors be in favor of the health bill as it stands at this time?
post #69 of 75
I suspect doctors and nurses, more than anyone, know how badly the system of health care insurance needs fixing - if nothing else, it's finally on the table.
post #70 of 75
Originally Posted by darlili View Post
I suspect doctors and nurses, more than anyone, know how badly the system of health care insurance needs fixing - if nothing else, it's finally on the table.

I agree. They are on the front and not behind desks. When someone declines a diagnostic test or treatment because they cannot afford it, they are the first to hear about it. They are taught to try to heal wherever possible and the current system works against them because it works against their patients. This is at any rate what I've heard from the medical personnel at the practice I go to.

Edited to add: Also because they are the ones who have to deal with the bureaucratic nightmare that our present system gives them when they want to get paid for their services. That plus the fact that it takes months for them to see their money is why you get a 20 % discount or more if you offer to pay with a check or credit card at time of treatment.
This is because private insurance bureaucracy and paperwork consume one-third (31 percent) of every health care dollar. Streamlining payment through a single nonprofit payer would save more than $400 billion per year, enough to provide comprehensive, high-quality coverage for all Americans.

I think there are some comments worth reading here from medical professionals:

And if you want a real scare read this!
Thus, America's healthcare-system-induced deaths are the third leading cause of the death in the U.S., after heart disease and cancer.
post #71 of 75
Thread Starter 
My insurance pays right away.

There is no way that the government will be faster than the insurnace companies, no way, I just don't believe it.

There will be much longer waits for any tests needed, longer waits to get authorized for treatment and care will be rationed.

But this may be a non-issue if the public option gets taken off the table.

The government is just as corrupt as the insurance companies, they are all corrupt, we will just be exchanging one devil for another IMO.
post #72 of 75
Your insurance co may pay right away but many do not. In our case since the only insurance we have is a high deductible, the medical provider has to first submit the claim to our insurance company knowing full well that they will pay nothing just so that they track of how much we have been paying out of pocket. Actually for reasons which I don't understand, the amount sometimes changes after it has been submitted, but that's another story. If and when the total submitted exceeds our yearly deductible, then and only then will our insurance start paying it. After they've recorded it, it goes back to the provider, who then bills us. It adds about a month of delay to the process.

I would still like to see a public option because I do not trust private insurance. I agree that they are all corrupt but I would like some more devils to choose from.
post #73 of 75
Thread Starter 
Here is a good link also:

This still leaves the question of why life expectancy is so low when the U.S. health care system is good. Likely the reasons are behavioral (e.g., smoking, obesity, stress) or public health related (e.g., clean drinking water, sanitation, pollution), and are not due to problems within the medical system. While the U.S. health care system is far from perfect, it is likely comparable or slightly superior to the medical care received in other developed countries.
IMO, we need to put the blame where it belongs, on ourselves. All doctors in all countries make mistakes.

Another good link


The Scotland Sun reports that the Scottish NHS paid £23 million ($40 million) to patients for subpar care. Is this due to the inherently substandard quality of care in a single-payer system?

The answer is likely no. This figure only amounts to about £4.50 ($7.34) for every person in Scotland however. Drug-related errors in the U.S. cost patients $3.5 billion per year or $11.50 per patient. Thus, it matters not whether a health care system is single payer or not; single-payer and private health care systems both have significant room for improvement.
post #74 of 75
I was going to fix the link in my last post but now that there is a reply I'll create a new post.

Health insurance companies routinely delay payments to medical providers and not because they are slow, it's because they profit from it.
Insurance companies have often accused doctors of submitting incomplete and inaccurate claims and justified the delays because of the time needed to discover fraudulent claims. But some states found plans guilty of and penalized them for intentionally delaying payments in order to profit from the "float". For instance, as early as in 1999, United HealthCare paid Georgia $123,000, and Coventry HealthCare of Georgia (formerly Principal Health Care of Georgia) and Prudential HealthCare Plan of Georgia - nearly double that amount.

And the delays are in some cases believed to have caused unnecessary deaths.
Bill Ackley had health insurance through his job as a public school teacher. But as his life hung in the balance, his insurance company questioned the necessity of a potentially life-saving treatment doctors prescribed and, for a time, refused to pay.

After months of appeals to overcome the "bureaucratic roadblocks," Ackley finally received approval for the treatment he sought. But to his daughter Erinn, the delay just might have cost her father his life.

"Dad was finally transplanted 126 days after the first transplant request [but] he never returned home," said Ackley.

This is of course assuming you are lucky enough to even have health insurance and not have it denied because of a pre-existing condition. Slightly OT, but in some states if you are a victim of domestic violence and have sustained injuries from it, you can be denied coverage.
Eight states, the District of Columbia, Idaho, Mississippi, North and South Dakota and South Carolina, have insurers who follow the practice of declining coverage to the victims of domestic violence, including half of the largest insurers in the country.

Some of these companies need to be read the riot act IMO - they are not about preserving our health, they are about making a profit off of health care. I don't see how things could be much worse than they are frankly.

I agree that we as a nation could be doing a lot more for our own health but I think that this is not how our system is set up. Diagnostics and screening, preventative health care are often not covered. The strategy we seem to have adopted in the US is to party on, and not do anything until we are really REALLY sick and then try to fix it with pills or expensive equipment.
post #75 of 75
Thread Starter 
The sad fact that we will never change is the love of money is the root of all evil. It permeates everything.
I am blessed I am not rich. There are a very, select few people that money did not corrupt.
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