Health Care Reform & the I.R.S.

The "agenda" in the White House is to take over EVERY part of your life and to tell you what to eat and when to die!

Yes, Comrad Obama scares me to death.

And, gosh, from such an unbiased source!

As opposed to unbiased sources such as the NY Times, Washington Post, etc.?

The thing, to me, is, you've got to weight your sources when reading - and in this particular case, this story doesn't exactly resemble the GAO to me. But, YMMV - I tend not to give a lot of weight to political or editorial columnists, on either side. Best case, they're writing to provoke rational thought - worst case, they're writing to provoke partisian fears.

We should have learned by now, from the bailout bills, from the stimulus bills, from the Cash for Clunkers mess that the fear-mongering coming out of the Obama White House is more wolf-calling.

I don't believe that the sky would have fallen if we had only taken more time and perhaps we would come up with better solutions. Same is true of this health care mess. Why not take it slow and change a couple of things that would make a big diffeence, like allowing all insurance companies to sell across state lines, and allowing collective bargaining of small companies to pool into a larger entity to better negotiate insurance terms?

Yes, I think some health care things need to change, but turning the system upside down is frightening to many of us.

The IRS is mentioned directly in the bills. I posted/linked the information in the big thread about health care a couple of weeks ago. It isn't something that is made up, or fear-mongering. It's in black-and-white in the bills.

Fortunately for me I've learned to research any claims. Here is what I found out about the Washington Examiner. It is owned by Anschutz's Clarity Media Group. Here is a passage from an article about Philip Anchutz from 2005.

http://www.slate.com/id/2115253/

Is there any doubt as to what his agenda would be in this dicussion on health care? Can I trust what he says to be the truth without any lies or distortions? Sadly, no. Prominent Republican's have already publicly stated that they are going to kill this bill no matter what they have to do. Therefore, I take everything that comes out of the Right with a grain of salt.

What's truly sad is that they're convincing ordinarly citizens to protest against their own best interests. If it the power of their lies weren't so scary, it would be funny.

Seems whenever anyone objects to anything Obama says they are automatically wrong, a racist, domestic terrorist, etc. Its been proven that some of the comments from Democrats calling us terrorist and worse is becasue we DARE to object to Obama and his plans.

We are just supposed to accept anything out of his mouth as truth and don't question me as to what I do or say.....

BTW that Health Care Plan was not created (1,000 pgs) in the past few months - this was the plan back when Clinton was in office! They added to it, but most of that was done long before. The Democrats couldn't do anything with it when Bush was in there - so they brought it back out.

I agree that Health Care needs to be reformed - but NOT the way its being done now. What's wrong with taking it a small part at a time and changing things a little slowly and in the right way. Don't be ramming this down everyone's throat and causing more problems!

EXACTLY! Congress over-reacted on every major piece of legislation passed this year, beginning with the bailouts. What is wrong with thinking it through, pass a little at a time, take time to evaluate and critique it before moving on to the next issue? If it takes 1,000 or so pages to write legislation, then the legislation is too complex. Break it down into digestable pieces. Let's not be in such a hurry to reform everything at once.

OK, read it. Page 527 falls under "IMPROVING TRANSPARENCY OF INFORMATION ON SKILLED NURSING FACILITIES AND NURSING FACILITIES" How does that have anything to do with the conspiracy theory the author is spinning?

If I actually thought there would be any meaningful debate, I'd agree with you, but most of the things we've heard in the last couple of months are outright lies (they're going to kill grandma, death panels, euthanasia, Ezekiel Emmanuel is Dr. Death, etc.) And these aren't just coming from the protesters at the town hall meetings, they're coming from prominent Republicans like the House minority leader, one of the Senators on the bi-partisan committee working on the Senate bill, and the chairman of the RNC. These guys know that if any meaningful health care reform gets passed, it will hurt their party come election time and they're committed to making sure that doesn't happen. They know that if they can slow down the health care reform, it will eventually lose momentum and die so "let's take it slow and talk about it" is code for "we want to kill health care reform."

Well if that's the case, sounds like it's been around for 15 years at least, so that makes the whole "ramming it down our throat" and "didn't read the bill" claims rather ludicrous, doesn't it?

I think you are reading way more into this than is there. The problem with all legislation coming out of Washington is usually way too long and complicated, deliberately written to be ambiguous in most cases. It was exactly what was wrong with Bush's immigration reform bill, and I said the same thing about that at the time. Break it down into smaller pieces and let's call for a vote on the smaller pieces.

Your implication that this is a strategy of the RNC to kill any and all parts of a health reform bill are ridiculous. Many Reps agree that changes need to take place to ensure that everyone's rights are protected.

And, as to this statement, "Well if that's the case, sounds like it's been around for 15 years at least, so that makes the whole "ramming it down our throat" and "didn't read the bill" claims rather ludicrous, doesn't it?" I completely disagree. Just because much of the bill is recycled Clinton rhetoric doesn't mean that it has been read and debated during the past 15 years. It was shelved and not trotted out again until this year.

I'm getting really tired of our government calling our citizens domestic terrorists when they disagree with their agendas. The Head of homeland security said that our Veterans are suspected terrorists too. I think our government is getting a little paranoid of their own citizens.

How can you trust your health to a government that is corrupt and has bankrupted our system? I am one of the uninsured in this country and there does need to be health care reform, but not by total take over by the government.

The IRS needs to be oblished!!!! They are a bunch of thugs

I'd have to say that after reading health care threads here for several years, the government is not the one that is paranoid.

I honestly don't know why they even bother trying to improve health care in the US - it seems as though nobody wants that to happen anyway - the argument I've seen is that if you need health care you can get excellent health care, better than any other country in the world apparently, according to some posters. So, heck, why would anyone want to change something so good? Or is that what the opposition is? That you already have wonderful and exceptional health care and are afraid of losing it.

Very few of the ones sitting in Congress have even bothered reading the 1,000 pages of this Heath Care. They just are believing everything the Prez is saying about it - I doubt Obama has even read it.

And guess what - since the bill says that eventually (within 5 yrs) everyone will be under the government health care plan - that INCLUDES every member of the government - the congress and prez will be included - they will not have the choice of their own health plan.

And THAT is what we do not want. The system needs to be changed, but not all at once and not the way the bill reads. I know several congressmen that have taken the time to really read the bill - I believe them when they say what is really in some of those parts - NOT what the Prez denys is in there!

I don't know who said you can get excellent health care in the US when not insured because I will argue that point. I don't have insurance and I work. I have to pay for everything full cost. I'm almost 50 years old and was just told my cholesterol is off the charts. I can't afford the medicine and if it wasn't for my Dr giving me samples I would have to take my chances. If I had a heart attack right now it would bankrupt us. I said in my precious post we DO need health care reform but not complete government take over. It would be alot cheaper to fix and update the existing programs we pay tax dollars to. I'm tired of paying my tax dollars to a bunch of criminals.

No, I don't trust my government. They just spent trillions of our tax dollars on a bailout that approx 300 billion went to bank bonuses. Just saw that little figure on the news today.

I'm not seeing what the problem is.
Non-for-profits generally have to apply for tax-exempt status from the IRS to qualify as being worthy in a tax sense of receiving tax-deductible contributions. Who is to say that if and when out of pocket health care premiums become deductable in the same way that employer paid health care premiums are tax-free, that this isn't going to create a cottage industry of phony health insurance companies? If that were to happen then the reform would have given more grist for the mill of the naysayers.

I think health care in the US is great if you are:
a) rich
or
b) covered by employer benefits

AND

live in an urban or wealthy suburban area with a choice of qualified medical professionals.

Otherwise you're toast.

I still think that tax credits to doctors for providing care, and pharmacies for providing medicine and supplies, for uninsured people without the ability to pay out of pocket would get the job done. If everyone has access to care providers and medicine, there's no reason for them to die or be sick other than things insurance can't fix anyway. We might end up saving money on that kind of a plan because people could go to a regular doctor's office instead of the ER when they have some small simple problem like the sniffles.

Yes, increased competition to drive the cost of insurance down would be a good thing, as would pretty much anything else to cut costs without cutting care, and hopefully as that kicked in more people would get insured, thereby no longer needing the government's help.

I do not like the idea of the IRS or any other government agency having the ability to fine me if they don't agree with the insurance choices that I make for myself as an adult. Talk about "keep your laws off my body"...I can choose an abortion but not a deductible?

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the people who are hurting the most right now under our miserable health care system are not illegal immigrants or welfare bums - its people like me with small businesses.

Check it out:

So if you are opposed to change, please realize that you are hurting the so-called backbone of the American economy. I can understand wanting to sit on tax-exemt cushy company benefits, but some of us who work our tails off are struggling not only to keep the business afloat, but to maintain reasonable coverage for ourselves.

Listening to CBC this morning and it seems the naysayers are the winning side. Apparently the folks that have mis-interpreted, taken out of context, and totally misunderstand the whole health bill have won the propaganda battle. It's probably now a case of getting what you wish for - which as we all know is not always the best scenario but there you have it.

So apparently no health care package is best for the US (well at least those with money or employer benefits), the rest of the folks can go you-know-where.

Here's the thing. People are scared of all the debt that is already on the books. Between the bailouts and the pork-laden stimulus, we are already $13+ TRILLION in debt with most owed to China who is purchasing that debt. This means that since we are "exporting" dollars, we will need to print more dollars to put more money into circulation. That will devalue the dollar to the point where no one, not even China will want to buy our dollars or our debt. This devaluation with then cause inflation, because those selling goods will want more dollars for the goods they sell because each dollar is actually worth less in purchasing power.

Unchecked inflation will ruin our economy and our standard of living. Obama may try to make this up by raising taxes on corporation, but that will only make matters worse, since higher taxes means that US corporations won't be competetive in the global marketplace. Higher corp. taxes also means that corporations will have less money to grow their businesses and hire more people. We already have high unemployment. We don't need it to become worse. Fewer people employed, means fewer people paying income taxes, property taxes, gasoline taxes, etc., meaning that the government has less money to run the government.

This is the snowball that Obama has pushed off the hill.

I agree that health care reform is needed, but at what additional cost? We are scared to death that the snowball is going to bury all of us under mountains of debt and the American standard of living will be gone forever. The people against the plan are scared that their whole way of life is on the line. If the bailouts and the porkulous bills hadn't come first, then perhaps we would be more open to a well-thought reform bill. But we are sick of these issues being pushed through Congress in huge bills that no one has the time to read or the ability to understand the consequences. We want smaller bills that are understandable and can be properly debated and implemented over time.

We're used to having to go you-know-where. It's chic to give lip service to small business but that's about where it ends. The only real support you get as a SB owner is from another SB owner.

I hope that at least a few people realize that the naysayers who have been trying to torpedo health care reform by spreading out and out lies are also sticking it to our nation's small business owners. I find this amazing in view of the fact that many of the Obama haters spew baloney out of the other side of their mouths about how he is trying to hurt small businesses. This bill would have helped us, but instead it looks like corporate America wins again thanks to conservative propaganda.

You need to watch the video here to see what this small business owner says about health reform.
http://www.groundreport.com/Politics...Lynn-Woolsey-O

It isn't that small business doesn't want affordable health insurance. They do. But why or why does it have to be all or nothing in one bill? Can't we have tort reform and competition across state lines without throwing in all the other 999 pages?

How unfortunate for your poorer folks.

One poster above was saying that folks were afraid of the debt. If they are so afraid, why are so many individuals in debt up to their eyeballs. Why have they run their credit cards to the limit and then gotten new credit cards to run to the limit? Why have they purchased big ticket items they cannot afford? They don't fear their own personal debt but fear the national debt? Are they not doing the exact same thing as they accuse the government of but just to a lesser degree? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me - I just don't get it.