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Can you help me with urinating outside of box?

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
I am at my wits end with my 4 year old neutered kitty named Smokey. I love him dearly, but he's peeing in places other than his litter box, and I'm about to lose my mind. He was neutered when he was just a kitten by the rescue group I got him from. I've had him his whole life. I adopted 2 kittens over a year ago and he has been okay with them. I found out earlier this year that both of those kittens have Feline Leukemia and I already lost the male to it a few months ago. The female is still doing okay and I'm not ready to put her down until she gets sick with it. Smokey is vaccinated and got a clean bill of health from the vet today-no UTI or anything. So, we think it's behavioral. He will pee in my dirty laundry hamper, in a basket of clean clothes if folded and in a basket, on my bed, on blankets, on clothes if my sons leave their dirty clothes on the floor of their bedroom instead of putting them in the hamper (they're 6 and 8), or any article of fabric that is left where he can get to it. I'm 6 months pregnant, and he peed on my bed the other night. This is his preferred sleeping spot, yet peed on it anyway. I had to change the sheets at 1am. Needless to say, I was NOT a happy camper! I just added another litter box back into the house today, so there is now 1 for each cat. What other suggestions do you have for me, that might get him to stop this craziness before I end up rehoming him, which I really really really don't want to do, but will have no choice if he doesn't stop.
post #2 of 24
This is not good......Do you have any idea when he started doing this? Was it before the new kittens or after? Are you positive it is him that is marking?
post #3 of 24
Thread Starter 
Positive it's him b/c he did it right in front of me the other day. He is squatting, not spraying, but still could be marking. He's done it off an on for a long time, but recently, it's an almost every day thing.
post #4 of 24
Did your vet check for crystals as well as a UTI? Crystals in the urine could be causing him enough discomfort that he avoids the litter box.

No, rehoming him is not the answer, you would just be passing the problem on to someone else, and he'd be likely to end up dumped out somewhere to die or be eaten or killed some other horrible way. Smokey is your for better or for worse!

1) Get some feliway plug in diffusers. They are great for territorial issues, including peeing.

2) he will have to be retrained. This is done by putting the cat into a very small space, a bathroom, or even a dog crate large enough for a litter box, bed, his food and dishes. Cats do not like to urinate where they eat, so he will be forced to use the box. Two weeks is the usual duration.

Let us know how things go with Smokey.
post #5 of 24
It sounds like it has been happening for a while now, and without redirection. If a kitty pees in an area outside of litter box, clothing, carpet, especially bed, this needs to be addressed immediately. When I say addressed I mean as to why it is happening, not punishment or discipline. If there are specific areas, such as laundry, towels or clothing on bathroom floor, don't leave anything out that you know maybe a target for him.
I am concerned about the fact you are 6 months pregnant. The health of you and your child are most important.
You said he peed on your bed the other night in front of you, and you had to change the sheets.....Did it soak through your sheets to your mattress? I think adding another litter box was the first step. I would make sure litter boxes are cleaned daily, and articles of interest, such as laundry, are not left out.
He also could be reacting to the other cats, now cat in your home that is terminally ill. Cats are extremely sensitive to others who are ill...............
post #6 of 24
Agree with Otto.

Also, you need to make sure to clean up the area's with enzyme cleaner or he will still smell and keep going in the same places.

So sorry you lost the male kitten
post #7 of 24
Thread Starter 
I'm going to assume the vet checked for crystals, since she's the vet and ought to know everything to do. I didn't ask specifically though. I have been trying to keep him out of my bedroom where the laundry hamper is, took the hamper from my kids' room, get onto the kids about leaving any kind of clothing on the floor, clean the box often, clean up the carpet and stuff with enzyme cleaner....I'm doing everything I can I think. I've working with him for a while now, knowing he has the tendency to do this. I can't just put him outside either, because I have dogs and they would kill him. I hate having outdoor cats anyway, afraid they'll get hit by a car or something. I just don't have a choice in rehoming him if he keeps it up because my husband will take it upon himself to do it. He doesn't like this situation at all, and refuses to put up with it any more. I have to admit, I'm sick of it too, and am in no condition with being pregnant to keep cleaning things constantly.
post #8 of 24
How long has this been going on for? What type of diet do you feed him? Does he get plenty of drinking water? What type of enzyme cleaner do you use? I have heard that JUSTRITE is an amazing cleaner from people tht have tried just about every cleaner available on the market http://www.justrite.com/123kit.htm#Top123Kit

You can't assume your vet did all the right tests. He may not have. There is a problem called cystis that really does not have a test that can determine if your cat has the problem.

Some cats for whatever reason DO NOT like clutter and things lying around. If you do not have time to fold your clothes and put away immediately put them into the closet and shut the door. Same goes with your kids. Clothes and hampers must not be left on the floor. Could you close them in the closet as well? You could buy mattress protectors from Walmart so the pee does not go into the mattress until you get this under control.

He may be stressed from the other cat passing away and his sister being sick. He could also be stressed from all the activity in the house....2 kids, dogs, angry parents, your pregnancy.....now it is trying to understand what the stress is. You could purchase some more natural stress relievers such as feliway diffusers (atleast 2-3 (more like 3) of them in a house) at http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss?ur...iway+diffusers or http://entirelypets.ecommerce-site-s...iway+diffusers (smartest way is to buy in bulk - you save much more money). You could also purchase some Bach Pet Rescue Remedy http://www.bachflower.com/Pets.htm , http://www.iherb.com/bach-original-f..._medium=c&at=0

You could also use flower essences. There are a few Australian Bush Flower Essences http://www.abfeusa.com/ which work very well on cats, who refuse to use their litter box: Billy Goat Plum, Rough Bluebell, Southern Cross, Sundew. You could contact the company and discuss your situation

http://www.spiritessence.com/

http://www.anaflora.com/essences/index.html

The typical rule of thumb is one litter box for each cat plus one. Where are the litterboxes located? Some cats like more secluded areas to do there business in. So make sure the litterboxes are not in high traffic areas. And that they do get their privacy. Are the litterboxes located very close to the food and water? Id so, move them away from eachother. Some cats do not like to go to the washroom near their food and water. Do any of the litterboxes have lids? Some cats do not like the lids on the boxes. Some cats do like the lids. Is the box big enough for the cat to move around in comfortably? You can buy cheap Rubbermaid containers to use as litterboxes. What type of litter do you use? Sometimes switching to a different litter can help the situation. Since your cat is seeking out soft things then maybe you may have to use something soft inside one of the litterboxes ie: puppy training pads, newspaper, shredded paper, towels, etc.

Here are a few groups that may be of some use for you to look over and ask questions:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/F...e_Elimination/

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FLUTD/

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/WholeCatHealth/

http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/broch...sesoiling.html

http://www.petplace.com/article-prin...y.aspx?id=3248

http://www.animalbehavior.org/ABSApp...e-housesoiling

http://www.hilltopanimalhospital.com...sesoiling1.htm
post #9 of 24
Thread Starter 
He's done it occasionally for a year or so. Recently, he's gotten worse. I feed him dry food, with the occasional treat of wet. His food is in the kitchen, litter boxes in the bathroom. So, far apart. They have dry food and water available at all times. I typically use Nature's Miracle for cleanup. It's not that he's resoiling the same exact thing, just always in the hamper or any basket of clothing. I don't have space to put hampers in closets. My house is tiny and until we remodel next year, the hamper is in my bedroom floor next to the closet. I can't just rearrange my life and house for a cat that was fine before and now suddenly is pitching a fit about who knows what. He might be stressed about Sasha being ill, although she is showing no signs of the FLV right now. I really don't know. I can't understand him. How long does one plug in of Feliway last? I could afford it every now and then, but not if it only lasts a week or something. Giving him any kind of medicine or pill, or even putting his flea meds on his back will cause him to absolutely freak out and scratch me to pieces. It's just not fun. I come out with the losing end of the deal. I use clumping litter, btw. It's easiest for my son to deal with. I stick to Tidy Cats usually. I have one of the rolling type of litter boxes and one regular that you have to scoop with a scooper, so both have lids and have always used this kind. I don't think that's the problem since he never had a problem with them before. My oldest son does the litter box usually, since I'm pregnant and don't need to be scooping because of the baby. I do stand and watch him usually and if he needs help, I will. My husband refuses to touch the boxes at all. He didn't want these cats and won't help with them. He does pet and love on the kitties, but he won't care for them. Thanks for the help. I just don't know what's going on in his little brain.
post #10 of 24
Quote:
I feed him dry food, with the occasional treat of wet.
I would feed him wet rather than dry. But if you can't do that feed more of the wet then the dry.

Quote:
His food is in the kitchen, litter boxes in the bathroom. So, far apart
.

Great!!!

Quote:
It's not that he's resoiling the same exact thing, just always in the hamper or any basket of clothing. I don't have space to put hampers in closets.
Can you make sure that the hampers have the lids on at all times? Same with the baskets? Would he go ontop of the dresser if you put the basket up high?


Quote:
My house is tiny and until we remodel next year, the hamper is in my bedroom floor next to the closet. I can't just rearrange my life and house for a cat that was fine before and now suddenly is pitching a fit about who knows what.
Yes, I see you are frustrated. And it is great that you have come to this forum to get advice. I have given you some great advice in my last post. But for some reason I think you may have made your decision up before you came to this forum One thing for us as cat owners is we have to understand that each cat has their own personalities and needs. No each two cats are alike. One thing that may have worked for a cat for years may not work anymore. They may decide they don't like the feel of the litter on their bum, or the location of the litterbox anymore, etc. Would you like to eat the same food day in and day out for your entire life? Why should a cat? We just expect our cats to do what we think is right for them. And that's where the problems start.


Quote:
He might be stressed about Sasha being ill, although she is showing no signs of the FLV right now. I really don't know. I can't understand him.
Do you want to take the time to understand him? Cat's are very sensitive. And get stressed very easy. What we may see as normal may not be normal for a cat. The death of his brother may have had more of an effect on him then you may think. Or the fact that you are pregnant may be stressing him out? Or the overcrowding of the house (ie: clothes being left around - untidy)


Quote:
How long does one plug in of Feliway last? I could afford it every now and then, but not if it only lasts a week or something.
I think the package says 4-5 weeks. It would be important for you to keep them plugged in for atleast 6 months to see if it has an effect. It may take up to a month to see any changes in the cat. That's why you could buy in bulk. Since your house is small (How big by the way?) you may need only 2 plugged in at a time. And then eventually go down to one.

Quote:
Giving him any kind of medicine or pill, or even putting his flea meds on his back will cause him to absolutely freak out and scratch me to pieces. It's just not fun. I come out with the losing end of the deal.
Many cat owners say the same thing. Have you tried putting a towel around him while pilling him? Has your vet given you any suggestions on how to pill your cat? Just so you know - none of the suggestions I gave to you in the last post required pilling. The flower essences and Pet rescue remedy you put on your finger and then rub onto the leather part of the cats ear. Or you can put the drops into the cats water.


Quote:
I use clumping litter, btw.
I use clumping cat litter as well. I use Worlds Best Cat Litter.


Quote:
It's easiest for my son to deal with
.

What a good son


Quote:
I stick to Tidy Cats usually
.

Could you try a different litter in one of the boxes. Many people with cats that have pee problems use Dr. Elsey's CAT ATTRACT. You could use this one in another box.


Quote:
I have one of the rolling type of litter boxes and one regular that you have to scoop with a scooper,

Maybe he does not like the rolling type litterbox??? Could you purchase a cheap Rubbermaid container (big enough for him) - you may have to cut a hole at the top of the side of the box for easy access. And either replace the rolling type box or add this new box into the equation.

Quote:
so both have lids and have always used this kind. I don't think that's the problem since he never had a problem with them before
.

It may be a problem to him now (it may not).....you will not know until you try. Cat's change their minds just like us humans change our mind... try taking the lid off of one of the boxes. I would say take the lid off of the box that you are going to put the Cat ATTRACT into. If you are not going to get cat attract I would suggest try a fine litter in one of the litter boxes.


Quote:
Thanks for the help. I just don't know what's going on in his little brain.
Your welcome! I know you may not understand your cat right now and that is why I am trying to help you understand him. Please read over the links I sent you in the last post. And post your questions on the forums I sent. Someone may have other suggestions for you as well.


Could you give me an idea on the layout of your house. I am not sure it is a good idea to have both litterboxes in the same bathroom. It is a high traffic area. Some cats do okay with a litterbox in the bathroom and some do not. Rule of thumb is litterboxes should not be placed beside eachother or very close to eachother. Do you have a basement, laundry room, hall closet, or a spare room that it can go into?
post #11 of 24
Thread Starter 
It's not so much that I've made up my mind. I don't WANT to rehome him. I've had him all his life and I love him dearly. I don't think he's refusing the box or anything. He's flat out marking. I need to figure out how to get him to stop his marking. Right now, I keep the bedroom door closed so he just can't get in there. My house is clean, but I have a lot of laundry at times. Some days I get behind because of life, and being pregnant and it gets piled up more than others. I'm trying to stay on top of it more to keep him from even being tempted to mark. I think I need specific help with marking though.
post #12 of 24
Get some feliway plug in diffusers. How many depends on how large your house is. My apartment is about 700 sq feet and one is enough.

I don't think we are allowed to post links to stores, but if you pm me I will give you the link to the on line store where I have found the best price and best service for purchasing feliway plug ins.

some rescue remedy may help too.
post #13 of 24
Quote:
It's not so much that I've made up my mind. I don't WANT to rehome him. I've had him all his life and I love him dearly.
Then don't you think he is worth trying some of the suggestions I and the other posters are suggesting?

Quote:
I don't think he's refusing the box or anything.
You do not know until you try different suggestions. Many cats pee on soft things (like clothes) when they are not happy with the litter, the location of the box, a lid on the box they do not like, etc. The suggestions I have given you are easy and inexpensive. And may just be the answer you are needing.


Quote:
He's flat out marking. I need to figure out how to get him to stop his marking.
He may be he may not be. But you have to look at the whole picture here to find a solution. Why do you think it is that he is marking?

Quote:
Right now, I keep the bedroom door closed so he just can't get in there
.

Good idea But you have to figure out why he is peeing outside of the litterbox. This is only temporary.


Quote:
My house is clean, but I have a lot of laundry at times. Some days I get behind because of life, and being pregnant and it gets piled up more than others.
Basket and hampers with lids may help you out alot??? It's worth a shot. But you have to keep them on all the time until you have a free moment to put them away.

My sister has a male cat that would spray (standing up and backing his behind up against the laundry basket, beside the washing machine, etc.) for years. After trying many different cleaners, vet recomendations, etc. when she moved into her new 1 bedroom apartment she did not bring anything into the apartment that he sprayed on. She purchased 2 feliway diffusers for her 500 sqr feet apartment (too make sure the feliway was taking effect), she switched the cats to a mainly wet food diet (after feeding them dry for more than 10 years), She applied Bach Pet Rescue Remedy, and applied a "Spraying cat Formula" from Anaflora as well on her cat http://www.anaflora.com/essences/index.html She has been living in this new apartment for 6 months and he has not sprayed. This is great because where she used to live the cat sprayed every week.

Quote:
I'm trying to stay on top of it more to keep him from even being tempted to mark. I think I need specific help with marking though.
I don't think you should not shun the ideas given to you. It's worth a shot. What do you have to lose? Your cats wellbeing is at stake here.....
post #14 of 24
Thread Starter 
I am utilizing suggestions that I can do. I don't have hampers with lids and can't just go buy more. But, keeping the door closed as much as possible should help. I will order some Feliway next week when I can afford it. I wouldn't think it was marking if he didn't use the box sometimes, and always to poop. Even my vet said that wasn't a box/litter aversion, that it was marking. I'm doing what I can for him. I give him lots of love and attention. He's a lap cat, so I make sure he gets attention. He shouldn't feel unloved or anything of that sort. He may be resenting the female who is sick, but I can't change the fact that she's sick. I think I need a cat psychologist. LOL
post #15 of 24
Animal communicator or Animal behaviourist might help!

Just to let you know some cats that have problems with peeing outside the box usually do poop in the box. And even do sometimes pee in the box.
post #16 of 24
Katina:

I have PMd you, but want to post my tips for success with the feliway here for others too.

The size of your house will determine how many you need, unless Smokey has a habit of staying in just one or two rooms. So you could try just one or two. More would be better if your place is big.

My apartment is 700 sq feet and one is enough for the whole place. But I wasn't dealing with marking problems. I use it to reduce stress.

All traces of urine anywhere will have to be removed or you will not have complete success. The only way to be sure is to get a black light, and shine it every where.

You will see any pee around that way. With an enzymatic cleaner ( people have their favorites) all spots must be cleaned until they no longer show up under the black light.

Hopefully some people here will give you some recommendations on what is the best enzymatic cleaner.

The other suggestions from other posters should be utilized too. Try one box with a different litter in it. Keep things picked up off the floor or piled anywhere. Get other family members to help you keep things picked up, to whatever extent they can (do you have young children?)

Make sure you have enough boxes and they are kept clean. Since you should not be handling cat litter, this job is going to have to be your husband's. Tell him how important it is.

If this were my cat, I would take him back for another urinalysis, or go see another vet for a second opinion, first thing. And I would ask for the sample to be sent to a laboratory to go into a more thorough check. Yes, it's expensive. But, a sudden blockage in a male can be fatal, and is terribly painful. I'm just not convinced this cat is not having urinary tract problems due to stress

The feliway will help with Smokey's stress, but if he has developed urinary tract problems or crystals in his urine, that will not be fixed without treatment, which means the problems will continue.
post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by otto View Post
Hopefully some people here will give you some recommendations on what is the best enzymatic cleaner.
JustRite will definately get any spotting and smell out of mattresses, carpet, hardwoods, etc. and the owner Bill is very willing to help you along during the cleaning process to help reward your efforts.

http://www.justrite.com/123kit.htm#Top123Kit

I find that Nature's Miracle only works best on linoleum. I had to buy 2 bottles of it to get the smell of urine out of my couch one time. It is faintly still there with an awful deoderizer smell. It definately did not work on hardwoods which I mainly have throughout my house.
post #18 of 24
I have posted this before. I have copied this from a Yahoo forum, but I do not think the poster will mind--it really does work much better than Nature's Miracle. It is much cheaper, but to me that was not a factor at all, I would have paid anything for something that worked, but I think this is the best:


Well, I didn't want to eat up a ton of time on the list for this, but I offered it to anyone who wanted it, and to
email me privately. In the last 2 hours I've probably gotten about 50 requests for it....so I'm going to post it.
First let me say it was generously given to me by a wonderful woman, Jacqui, on one of the Savannah Cats groups on Yahoo.....and it works like a charm.
you will need the following:
1 Gallon of Hydrogen Peroxide (you can purchase this size at a beauty supply store...if none in your area,
you can buy quart sized bottles or even smaller and use a cleaned out gallon bottle (like a milk jug)
2 Tablespoons of baking soda
a few drops of any liquid dish soap (I used Dawn)
(It is important that once you mix these ingredients together, it MUST be used IMMEDIATELY!)

Mix all ingredients together in gallon jug, re-cap and shake well. USE IMMEDIATELY!
Saturate affected area very well. The area, once well saturated, should be very squishy when pressure is applied. Let set as is for 24 hours. Blot (do NOT apply excessive pressure, simply blot) excess wetness with papertowels (if you use rags, you'll need to discard them because of the chemical change, so I highly recommend paper toweling. Let the area thourghly dry. DO NOT USE heat lamps, hair dryers or any thing to speed up the drying process. It is important that it air dry naturally, as the peroxide continues to work.
Once the area is completely dry, the odor is G O N E!!!

The reason for the squishy saturation is because the pet urine, especially cat, goes thru everything. This mixture, if applied as directed, will go thru the carpeting, thru the carpet backing, thru the carpet backing and will also penetrate the subflooring, which if it is wood or concrete, is very porous and will absorb the urine as well. If the odor is NOT gone, you didn't apply enough liquid to completely saturate all layers, which I guarantee if you do and let it completely dry on it's own, it will work. I actually took a syringe used to inject medication (needle and all), filled it from the jug and injected it thru the carpeting as far down as I could get it to make sure all the stink would be gone! IT WAS!!!!

My friend uses and recommended I also use a watering can, the kind you use for garden plants, as the liquid will flow the head of the sprinkler evenly as you pass it over the soiled and smelly area. I found that this method of application really is the best way to dispense the mixture.

Two of my male cats completely 'christened' my livingroom, the ENTIRE perimeter of the room around all four walls, in addition to areas along side my sofa and loveseat. They also got a cushion on one of the sofas, and the back bottom corner of a recliner. This mixture took care of all that mess without staining or discoloring my forest green carpeting or the light floral chintz fabrics of the furnature.

IT REALLY DOES WORK IF YOU USE IT AS DIRECTED

Have fun...enjoy the results!
di
post #19 of 24
Thread Starter 
I'll have to buy a flashlight and will definitely try your recipe Di! Thanks for the info on the feliway as well. I will get new litter for the box next week when we get paid again, and see if that helps. He's been ok and not made any messes since he came home from the vet on friday. I'll call my vet tomorrow to see what tests were run other than the urinalysis, although right now, I can't afford any more vet bills. I could save up for them though.
post #20 of 24
Oh, was Smokey just there on Friday? I apologize, for some reason I thought the vet visit was awhile ago.

But I think calling your vet for concrete answers is a good idea. Guess work in health matters does no one any good. Just adds unneeded stress!
post #21 of 24
Thread Starter 
Yeah, I just took him in on Friday and drop some dough on him. My budget is broken now. LOL I'll call her back tomorrow though.
post #22 of 24
I'm having a similar problem with my cat who is 9 months old. She doesn't do it all the time. Good luck I hope it works out for you and your cat
post #23 of 24
Anyone know where to get a black light???
post #24 of 24
Here is a link to a great website wth much info on urinating outside the litterbox. Also, info regarding blacklights

http://www.tallyville.com/litterboxhelp.html
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