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NHS Senior care in Britain

post #1 of 21
8/27/09 at 8:25am
Thread Starter 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...s-exposed.html


Quote:
In the last six years, the Patients Association claims hundreds of thousands have suffered from poor standards of nursing, often with 'neglectful, demeaning, painful and sometimes downright cruel' treatment.

Appalling care' cost up to 1200 lives in Staffordshire The charity has disclosed a horrifying catalogue of elderly people left in pain, in soiled bed clothes, denied adequate food and drink, and suffering from repeatedly cancelled operations, missed diagnoses and dismissive staff.
Pretty disgusting what many seniors have to go through in their last days in Britain.
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post #2 of 21
8/27/09 at 8:31am
Thread Starter 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...-or-drink.html

Quote:
Florence Weston suffered a hip fracture but, as a patient given 'nil by mouth' prior to an operation, she was left without food or drink as the surgery was repeatedly cancelled. She was told she should wet her bed and she was later reduced to tears by different staff for doing so.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...ehydrated.html

Quote:
Oenone Hewlett, 85, deteriorated while in St Mark's Hospital in Maidenhead, Berkshire, because of dehydration despite concerns being repeatedly raised by her family.

“When she arrived at Wexham Accident and Emergency following her stay at St Marks, the doctor thought she must have been at home alone and neglecting herself. We had to explain she had been in hospital. He couldn’t understand how should could’ve become so dehydrated.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...ama-queen.html

Quote:
Hospital care: Ann McNeill was called a drama queen
Ann McNeill, a former nurse, was called a “drama queen”, left in soiled bed clothes and own vomit and berated for waking staff at night to ask for a drink.
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post #3 of 21
8/27/09 at 8:36am
You do know that similar incidents could be found in every state in the US, as well, right?
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post #4 of 21
8/27/09 at 9:34am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by darlili View Post
You do know that similar incidents could be found in every state in the US, as well, right?
Maybe you could post some links like I have, showing where 1200 lives were lost in one town.
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post #5 of 21
8/27/09 at 9:40am
In the us Elderly abuse is well hidden... I would say from experience that 95% of people in nuring or assisted living homes die prematurely due to improper care... NO links just persomal obeservation as my grandma was a cook in one and I spent LOTS of time with the folks there ...

a little light reading done 9 yrs after my grandmas passing which YES she died from IMHO neglect ...

http://www.ncea.aoa.gov/NCEAroot/Mai...060+REPORT.pdf
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post #6 of 21
8/27/09 at 10:02am
Thread Starter 
My father spent the last eight months of his life in a care facility. We were there on a regular basis, at least, three times a week.

The staff was wonderful and my father got great care, he was bedridden at the last and never had bed sores. Hospice came in weekly and made recommendations if they felt any needed to be made.

I think when one has a family member in a care facility it is their responsibility to visit them regularly and they will be able to see if their care is adequate.
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post #7 of 21
8/27/09 at 10:10am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
In the us Elderly abuse is well hidden... I would say from experience that 95% of people in nuring or assisted living homes die prematurely due to improper care... NO links just persomal obeservation as my grandma was a cook in one and I spent LOTS of time with the folks there ...

a little light reading done 9 yrs after my grandmas passing which YES she died from IMHO neglect ...

http://www.ncea.aoa.gov/NCEAroot/Mai...060+REPORT.pdf
I am reading, Bottom of Page 5 says the most common category investigated is "Self Neglect" at 26.7% followed by caregiver neglect at 23.7% and financial exploitation 20.8%

On Page 6, it is pretty sad as it seems to be saying most elder abuse happens in the home and by family members. That makes me sick to my stomach.

It is a sad testament to humans that the most vulnerable of us, our young and our old are treated so horrendously.
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post #8 of 21
8/27/09 at 10:11am
This is so sad and it happens in America too. However, Britian is also under government run health care system.............and Obama wants to have the same for America.......is this what America's future will be too?
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post #9 of 21
8/27/09 at 10:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Maybe you could post some links like I have, showing where 1200 lives were lost in one town.
I would rather clean up our own mess than throw stones at another country. It is actually impossible to quote how many lives are lost in our nursing homes as there are only two states that are required to report all of the deaths in the nursing homes.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...1.26e7033.html

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...es-cover_x.htm

http://www.boston.com/news/local/art...c_care/?page=1


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aGc2PNd3vVLs

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/81984.php

http://www.sj-r.com/health/x77647578...ceive-scrutiny


You know how I now that nursing home abuse is a problem in the US? If you google "nursing home abuse" you will get a bunch of law firms ready to sue on your behalf.
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post #10 of 21
8/27/09 at 10:22am
So you folks don't think this is already happening in the US even without health care? Interesting. Wrong, but interesting how it can be turned as another mark against Obama by the anti-group.

I've said repeatedly that if one wants fuel for any fire, regardless of which side of the fence it is on, just do a little "googling" and you'll be able to find it. It's unfortunate that all that energy isn't used for more useful applications.
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post #11 of 21
8/27/09 at 10:25am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by peachytoday View Post
I would rather clean up our own mess than throw stones at another country. It is actually impossible to quote how many lives are lost in our nursing homes as there are only two states that are required to report all of the deaths in the nursing homes.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...1.26e7033.html

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...es-cover_x.htm

http://www.boston.com/news/local/art...c_care/?page=1


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aGc2PNd3vVLs

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/81984.php

http://www.sj-r.com/health/x77647578...ceive-scrutiny


You know how I now that nursing home abuse is a problem in the US? If you google "nursing home abuse" you will get a bunch of law firms ready to sue on your behalf.


I am not throwing stone, just point out that under NHS in Britain, people are dying.

I have only read your first link but I do know it is hard to keep bed ridden people from getting bed sores.

Read Sharky's link, it is official findings and it looks like abuse by "self" and "family members" is the biggest abuse here, that is horrible also.
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post #12 of 21
8/27/09 at 10:37am
Just in the city next too me and my local area 12 nursing homes have been shut DOWN due to abuse and neglect( realize with beuracracy that takes lots of paperwork and investigation... oh and this is in just the 2-3 yrs in a relativiely small area...

I did TAKE care of my family member but as a child there is only so much I could do for anyone..
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post #13 of 21
8/27/09 at 10:43am
Unfortunately the elderly are a vulnerable group and there is abuse in probably every country in the world. I would have serious issues with anyone who harmed my mom or dad.
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post #14 of 21
8/27/09 at 10:46am
Are you saying the current US health care system is so good we don't have to worry about the underinsured, the uninsured, and the people who have insurance only so long as they have a job with a major employer that still maintains insurance coverage for their employees?

Or are you saying that people who have insurance under Medicare are suffering unduly, since that's a single-pay, government-sponsored provider?

People die in the US all the time, since they don't have access to healthcare because they don't have insurance - or are clogging up ERs by using them as primary care providers once illnesses have progressed to critical stages - that seem right to you?

I wish everyone would ask themselves one simple question - what would I do if I didn't have a job that offers insurance - and see what the answer is.
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post #15 of 21
8/27/09 at 10:47am
Thread Starter 
On France's Health Care

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArti...36178343967257

Quote:
Sorman notes that a Frenchman making a monthly salary of 3,000 euros has 350 of them deducted for health insurance. Then the employer throws in an additional 1,200 euros. This raises the cost of labor to prohibitive levels and puts a brake on economic growth. This helps explain why French unemployment hovers around 10%.

France imposes an additional tax levy to cover the constant deficits that national health insurance runs.
and people here have sited the fact that France's Infant Mortality Rate is so much better than the United States. I always thought there was something a tad bit hinky with that, this is from the same link.

Quote:
Regardless of the cost, does the French system produce better outcomes? Not always. Infant mortality rates are often cited as a reason socialized medicine and single-payer systems are better than what we have here. But according to Dr. Linda Halderman, a policy adviser in the California State Senate, these comparisons are bogus.

Official World Health Organization statistics show the U.S. lagging behind France in infant mortality rates — 6.7 per 1,000 live births vs. 3.8 for France. Halderman notes that in the U.S., any infant born that shows any sign of life for any length of time is considered a live birth. In France — in fact, in most of the European Union — any baby born before 26 weeks' gestation is not considered alive and therefore doesn't "count" in reported infant mortality rates.
So much for that argument.
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post #16 of 21
8/27/09 at 10:52am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by darlili View Post
Are you saying the current US health care system is so good we don't have to worry about the underinsured, the uninsured, and the people who have insurance only so long as they have a job with a major employer that still maintains insurance coverage for their employees?

Or are you saying that people who have insurance under Medicare are suffering unduly, since that's a single-pay, government-sponsored provider?

People die in the US all the time, since they don't have access to healthcare because they don't have insurance - or are clogging up ERs by using them as primary care providers once illnesses have progressed to critical stages - that seem right to you?

I wish everyone would ask themselves one simple question - what would I do if I didn't have a job that offers insurance - and see what the answer is.
I am saying, as I have said many times before on this forum, that health care cost reform is needed. It needs to be a bi-partisan plan with ideas accepted from both sides of the aisle. It can be done without a government paid system.

There have been many things suggested, John McCain has some get ideas, but the Democrats will not even look at anything that comes from the Republicans.

Just because I am against Obamacare doesn't mean I am against reform of costs of health care and I object to the insinuation that I am.
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post #17 of 21
8/27/09 at 11:09am
and have you noticed that McCain is being screamed at in his town halls (see today's, for instance). If so many of the town hall participants (and others) would simply take a deep breath and stop listening to a lot of hear-say from extremist pundits - on both sides - we could get a lot further toward working towards a system that's fair to all people - not just the people sitting in their own little life insurance lifeboats.

or if the lifeboat folks would ask themselves what happens when they lose a job, it might be a total reversal of position - like if they have a pre-existing condition and try to find insurance on their own!
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post #18 of 21
8/27/09 at 11:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
On France's Health Care

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArti...36178343967257



and people here have sited the fact that France's Infant Mortality Rate is so much better than the United States. I always thought there was something a tad bit hinky with that, this is from the same link.



So much for that argument.
That is according to one person, now if everyone agreed with her, then you've got an argument.

ETA: It's much like this forum - it depends on which side is talking as to which stats are valid.
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post #19 of 21
8/27/09 at 12:38pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by darlili View Post
and have you noticed that McCain is being screamed at in his town halls (see today's, for instance). If so many of the town hall participants (and others) would simply take a deep breath and stop listening to a lot of hear-say from extremist pundits - on both sides - we could get a lot further toward working towards a system that's fair to all people - not just the people sitting in their own little life insurance lifeboats.

or if the lifeboat folks would ask themselves what happens when they lose a job, it might be a total reversal of position - like if they have a pre-existing condition and try to find insurance on their own!
Not true, I actually watched McCain's Town Hall Meeting.
The first town hall he had no one screamed.
Last night's town hall meeting, ONE woman was screaming and was escorted out. That is all.
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post #20 of 21
8/27/09 at 12:40pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
That is according to one person, now if everyone agreed with her, then you've got an argument.

ETA: It's much like this forum - it depends on which side is talking as to which stats are valid.


The woman has a good point if that is true and there is a difference on how the two countries define "live births".
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post #21 of 21
8/27/09 at 2:58pm
Ok, heres one person who is a Brit, and who knows their healthcare system better than anyone outside the UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Pretty disgusting what many seniors have to go through in their last days in Britain.
Granted it is disgusting, but as a few have said it happens in other countries. The main thing is this has been brought to light and the goverment are involved to make sure it doesn't happen again, although sadly i've no doubt there will be another case of it at some point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
However, Britian is also under government run health care system.............and Obama wants to have the same for America.......is this what America's future will be too?
I hate it when people knock our NHS, and that includes Brits!. My mother had mouth cancer, my brother had lung and bone cancer, and both of them had excellent care and treatment, so if i had a choice of going with our NHS or an insurance scheme that you have in the US, i'd pick our NHS any day, especially when i've seen so many threads and posts here where people haven't got enough coverage or no health insurance at all.

For the small amount i pay out my salary to the NHS, i can be reasurred that should i need any medical treatment no matter how large or small it is, i can be seen without having to worry about being covered or not.

My niece is a nurse, and a dedicated one at that. She could do private nursing if she wanted to, but she won't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by peachytoday View Post
I would rather clean up our own mess than throw stones at another country.

You know how I now that nursing home abuse is a problem in the US? If you google "nursing home abuse" you will get a bunch of law firms ready to sue on your behalf.
Thank you!
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