I have wanted to ask this for some time, breeders and shelter cats - Page 4

That's very unfortunate Mews I guess some do fall through the cracks. Did this person fall under the radar somehow, to begin with? Does CFA DO inspections like AKC does? This is an area I admittedly know little about (re: cats/large-scale catteries/inspections)..thanks for your input.

Wow, okay, so CFA really doesn't get involved. Learn something new every day! Every month in the AKC Gazette there is a long list of fines and punishments with full name, breed(s), location and offense! Fines run anywhere from $500 fine and a month of lost priveleges (for something like a show of poor sportsmanship at a show) to huge $$ and no AKC priveleges for LIFE (for cruelty or fraud type offenses). It's obviously a lot different with cats!

One of the reasons for that could well be that in our society cats are considered disposable pets whereas dogs are not. Sad state of affairs if you ask me!

I believe in "gray" areas also, but not when it comes to animals.
I have to many friends and family members in rescue and have seen, firsthand, the results of allowing idiot people to have intact animals.

8-10 million cats and dogs in this country are killed every year, if there were less animals there would be less killed.

I have never in my life seen any harmful effects from pediatric spay-neuter, on the other hand I have seen animals die from mammary cancer because the female was not spayed.

It is a fact that millions of pet owner are irresponsible morons, this country needs to do more to protects animals from these people.

The same goes for back yard breeders, puppy mills and any breeders that are irresponsible. I can't back down from that I have seen to much.

Cindy, I am in complete agreement with you. The good breeders are not the problem at all with the over-population of cats and dogs. Anyone who believes they are needs to seek more education on the real facts IMO.

I can't imagine how awful it would be to let some breeds die out because of a lack of responsible breeders. I liken it to allowing wild species to be over-hunted, killed and allowed to become extinct. I wouldn't want it to happen in my world.

The idea of "breeding" the purfect pet is an interesting thought. I want a cat that looks like this, has this temperment and of course, is hypoallergenic. If it doesn't exist now, we'll just keep at it until til we make one. There is just something odd in that to my way of thinking.

And about those barn cats. I live in a rural area, the same with most of my family and many friends. Trust me, no one I know is in the business of breeding barn cats. For one thing, there's simply no market for them. I have my own cats, all altered and vaccinated. So do my family and friends. So where do all these cats come from? Good question. Probably the same place that all the strays wandering through your neighborhoods come from. We've added 7 here in the last year. I guess it's reasonable to expect people to catch/trap every cat they see on their farm and have them altered, so long as everyone else in town does the same.

Being a responsible breeder who takes care of their animals is one thing. Being a responsible person who takes care of everyone else's dumped animals is apparently another.

Forgot this. I would be curious to know if those who work in shelters see a lot of barn cats there? Around here, if the farmer isn't willing to spend the $15/$25 at the low cost spay/neuter clinics, I don't see them paying the $60 surrender fee at the clinic. Bullets are so much cheaper.

Uh..how would anyone know they're barn cats? They won't march in and announce their origin Seriously...what I meant to say is, I betcha there are thousands more random/feral/accidental/didn't bother to neuter my male oops there's another litter- cats than there are ill-bred Abys or Persians or ASH from kitten mills out there...............................at shelters....or lost in the cracks. IOW, it is the mass irresponsible-not my problem-don't bother to s/n populace that is at fault more than a licenseable defineable actual breeder.

Yeah..that's part of it I think. That's why legislation targets the wrong people a lot of the time!

That said, studies have shown (and I'll have to find one, not handy as I type) that euthanization and intake have gone DOWN since the 80's..NOT up...(this will not count the CURRENT foreclosure/economy downturn we are seeing). So in other words..education IS WORKING. Many more people are aware of rescue vs. petshops and many more people routinely s/n. We just have to keep on! But educate wisely...don't throw the baby out with the bathwater as the AR agenda suggests.

Hi,

the small German city of Paderborn passed a regulation last year requiring all out door cats to be neutered by their owners by the age of 5 months, regardless of their breed. The local shelter there has said that they've had less cats coming in this year (!) although Germany's also been hit by the recession, causing more surrenders then usuall throughout Germany.

Unfortunately farm cats were excluded from this regulation , but at least it's a step in the right direction.

Aditionally all out door cats are required to have either a chip implanted or a tattoo.

The hope here is that more cities will follow suit as they are required to pay 28 days long for the care of stray cats that are brought into a shelter (though not for owner surrendered cats). After these 28 days the shelter has to start covering the costs itself through donations. Less cats would mean less strays so it wouldn't suprise me if this regulation caught on soon .

regards,

christine


EDIT: forgot to mention that Austria has had a similar law already in place for the last three years- again with farm cats not included.

Seattle seems to have a licencing regulation for cats with prices depending on wether the cat is neutered or not:

http://www.seattle.gov/animalshelter...s.htm#benefits

Bullets are far cheaper - we get farmers threatening to shoot the cats if we don't take them - threaten all the want - we don't have space! There is no such thing as a low cost s/n around here - we've toyed with the idea of trying to set something up for low cost s/n for x amount of time, but it's a lot of work for us at the shelter, and we don't know that anyone would use it (or that it would achieve the goal - get more cats, esp farm cats - s/n).

You make an educated guess. Of the surrender cats we get - 90% of them are farmers surrendering cats/kittens. Or are strays that fit the description *exactly* of some farm cats on the surrender list.

That is an amazing statistic. I've helped several people on farms trap/neuter some of their cats. The word "trap" should give you an idea of what they're like. These are not adoptable animals by the farthest stretch of the imagination. Is your shelter in a city? And 90% of the cats brought in to you come from out on farms? That really is amazing. Not doubting your word or anything. But since farms are 90% of your problem, a s/n program targeting them might be a thought. How great would it be to have a program where you had a dedicated team to TNR farm cats? The people I helped didn't have a clue how to fix the problem, but were thrilled to let me do it for them.

I called probably a dozen places when this last bunch got dropped off here. Most of the rescues and shelters in and around Portland told me that even if they had room I was outside their area. Most farms probably are.

But there are numerous s/n programs available here, which is why I'm still able to have all these guys taken care of. I had four cats neutered this month, rabies and FVRCP-FELV. Total cost $140.

I still believe the early s/n is the best way to reduce the amount of accidental litters, as there would be very few ways of getting hold of an entire cat - very few rescues over here do early s/n, I only know of a couple so the rest of us have to spend a lot of time following things up (the new rescue I volunteer for now actually pick the kittens up at the right age and take them to be neutered, to make sure it is done, but most have to rely on phone calls/vet bills) - the old rescue paid for all the neuters, all they had to do was use our vet and we still had people who had to be chased (and at least one who didn't take her in time). The old rescue's vet wouldnt neuter early, they didn't like the thought of operating on babies - but they did operate on a hernia on a 7wo male, but wouldn't neuter - a hernia op is much more invasive to a boy than a neuter, so he had had 3 anaesthetics by the time he was 6 months old (he pulled his stitches out the first time!!).

I do believe that microchipping should be done by all rescues - the new rescue chip every cat and dog that leave them, but not all rescues do. I have picked up some cats that I was glad weren't chipped, but it is frustrating picking up a healthy, friendly cat who you know must have had an owner, but there is no chip. One of the strays I picked up this year was chipped, but he actually had a Belgian chip that couldnt be traced.

With regard to pedigrees and moggies, I have fostered 80 cats over 5 years, and only 2 have been pedigrees (neither had papers, but one was confirmed by an ex-breeder to be a Manx, as two vets didn't want to say for certain, and the second was the above mentioned chipped cat, who would have been placed as an MC/NFC regardless due to size - 6kg partly shaved and underweight)

We are located in a city of around 10,000 or so in a *very* rural area? (which makes a difference vs. largely populated not farming area shelters/humane societies) Anyways - the humane society serves the entire county, and most of the cats on our surrender list are farm cats/kittens. You'd be surprised how many are really "domestic" animals! Some are fixed & returned to farms - but most are adoptable as housepets.

Do you have a lot of repeat offenders as far as surrenders from farms? If so, I would consider addressing the problem "one farm at a time". The people I helped would never in their lifetime consider catching a cat and taking it in to be neutered. (Of course, they wouldn't take them to the shelter either) I made the reservation through either free or low cost programs and went out there with traps to get the cats. But once I was there, they got involved with catching them. I guess the fact that they are hauling them in to you, trying to get rid of the problem says that they don't want anymore cats. Since you can't keep taking them off their hands, maybe you need to start at the root of the problem. Just a thought.

TRUST me they are trying...

I think the root of the problem is trying to educate those that keep farm cats, get free kitties, buy from pet stores who buy from backyard breeders, etc. The breeders aren't the ones that need the education, nor are they contributing to overpopulation of moggies.

Educate, educate, educate. Of course education will, in itself, only do so much. Many farm folks consider having kittens they don't want and drowning or shooting them to be A-0K and wouldn't listen to anyone anyway. I know, I came from a farm and now live in a city. Most people back home think I'm nuts for treating my cats like they were part of my family and laugh at me.

There are quite a few who bring us kittens year after year - on one condition though - they provide proof they are spaying the moms. If they aren't bothering to fix the adults, then we don't take the kittens.

We don't have the money to s/n all the animals we adopt out - let alone other's pets. There is no low cost s/n around here - at all.

We've looked into grants, but that means finding someone to arrange it all - and as is we are barely keeping afloat between the few volunteers we have to run things.

It would be lovely to help farmers fix their cats - but we cannot come up with a plausible way to do so.

Well those are the people I have dealt with too. But once they see what it is like to not to have litter after litter, some of them sort of get it. But for the most part, they won't do it themselves, and they really won't pay for it, at least not 100%. You know you're not going to "educate" certain people in the conventional manner.

There's a clinic locally that does low cost one day a month. The feral cat people request donations, (I think they got their mobile s/n van through a grant) and both the shelters issue discount certificates. For people who get overrun with cats, either through their own fault or because of others, there is no other way you're going to solve the problem unless you make s/n affordable. And for some, affordable won't even cut it. You're gonna have to do it for them. It still just amazes me that so many farm cats end up in a shelter. I don't think they make it off the farm here.

This is a little off topic, but got me to thinking after reading your post. I know they can put birth control drugs in bird food to curtail the pidgeon population. Has anyone come up with a way to do that with cat food? It ma not be ideal, but perhaps could help with the feral population.

There is such a product: http://www.feralstat.com/

Problems are 1) not a lot of people know about it, and 2) ya think most farmers are going to spend ANYTHING on the farm cats? Not likely. Bullets are still cheaper.

Birth control really doesn't work on a cat considering they are induced ovalators (not like dogs or people) - they only release the eggs when bred. So BC pills would not work to prevent the egg from being released like it can in a dog or human.

Evidently the Feralstat works by tricking her body into believing that's she's already pregnant, so she doesn't go into heat. I wonder if she'd still drop an egg if taken forcefully by a tomcat (some toms will do that)?

are you serious, cats can be rapists?? I didn't know that

I believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) that that is exactly how the birth control pill works.

Yes, that's how it works on humans.

The other problem with birth control and cats is that it doesn't stop them being at risk of pyo and cancer. I believe that males will try things on with females when they aren't in heat, but I would imagine it is quite rare.