The Death Book for Veterans

While I think our health insurance in this country needs serious reform, I have told many people that before they get too enthusiastic about total government control, they ought to ask some veterans how they feel about the VA medical care.

My brother came close to dying waiting for a simple surgical approval or transfer approval from the VA. Finally, the county hospital (Catholic run) decided they had to do it no matter what, and ran up nearly $100,000 in costs, which the VA then refused to reimburse, leaving it to be paid (written off) by the hospital and the county.

Three-month waits for an appointment. Staff doctors who are too incompetent to get work elsewhere. Prescription services that take 2 weeks to get an emergency prescription. It just goes on and on.

That sounds exactly like the medical care we get up here in northern New England paying out of pocket. That is NOT specific to the VA nor does it have anything to do with government.

By the way I'm very sorry to hear that happened to your brother - that shouldn't happen to anyone.

My uncle (retired Army) lives in Salem, OR. The VA medical center he's supposed to use is in Portland, OR, which is approximately an hour away if traffic is good. Salem has a very good hospital which is more like 10 minutes away in typical traffic, but he's supposed to go to Portland, not just for scheduled stuff (which I agree with--if you can plan it, going to the cheapest facility possible makes sense) but for any and all emergencies. He has a heart condition.

Any idiot can tell you that an hour is too long to wait if someone has a heart attack, but the VA doesn't see it that way because they have to cut costs so much, and hey, a bag and a toe tag cost a lot less than an ER bill plus the subsequent cardiac care.

Boy, people will believe anything, won't they? What is so wrong with end of life planning?


http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/po...l-to-veterans/

[quote=Misty8723;2708869]Boy, people will believe anything, won't they? What is so wrong with end of life planning?
QUOTE]
OMG - you mean I might die someday????
Seriously, though, sounds like the VA has the same problems that the current private health insurance has

Specter Says He May Introduce Legislation to Ban Veterans' Guide on End-of-Life Care

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...end-life-care/


And one more time the article from The Wall Street Journal

The Death Book for Veterans
Ex-soldiers don't need to be told they're a burden to society.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...107981718.html

Post me a link to the actual chart, because I can't find one.

Frankly, I can think of a lot of scenarios where my own life would not be worth living. I have no desire to be kept alive at all costs, and I have no idea why anyone would want to be.

This is just another right wing attempt to derail health care and the Obama administration. Frankly, anyone who is a Christian or who has any beliefs in an afterlife should realize that this life is just one small part of a much bigger picture, and death is just a transition to the next phase.

I wish that more people would actually think about what's being said and by whom and what that person/group's agenda is. That goes for left wing propaganda as well as right wing propaganda. Don't just listen to Rush or Keith and swallow what they say wholesale without thinking it through and doing your own research. Sometimes a little common sense is all that's needed.

Never mind, I finally found the booklet.

http://www.rihlp.org/pubs/Your_life_your_choices.pdf

Good grief, is this what all the fuss is about? I can't think of anything that makes more sense than deciding for yourself what you want instead of having someone else try to make that decision for you. I'm glad that DH and I have living wills and know what we both believe and would choose for ourselves. I would not want anyone to have to live with any kind of guilt because they didn't know my preferences.

If I am in a wheelchair diagnosed with an deadly disease I would even more want to fill out that form so the doctor and my family would know where I stand on my death. I am going to die. I would like some dignity I am not afraid of death. If there is counseling I would probably take it. It is one thing to have a living will with death a nebulous concept but I think if it was imminent it might be different and counseling on my choices would not be a bad thing. I would hate to live like some that were in the news. One side of the family keeping me alive in a vegetative state the other trying to respect my wishes. And the only ones coming out with any good are the lawyers battling it out. Yuck.

If you don't like the form don't use it but don't deny people that might want to use it.

Funny, the renaming of the document, Your Life, Your Choices to the Death Book reminds me of how the inheritance tax was renamed the death tax. Link something to death and scare everybody against it. That way you can get millions of people adamant to repeal a tax on the rich that would never affect them while not doing anything about the AMT tax that was starting to affect more and more middle class.

I think it would make me feel that I had in choice in how my left ended up. Nobody is talking lethal injection that I can see. What they are saying is that when the time comes, do I want to be kept alive no matter even if there is no hope, or only a slim home, or do I want to die naturally. It's all about CHOICE, not lethal injection. Try reading it with an open mind.

What is done is to make you as comfortable as possible until you die a natural death.

The above excerpt shows why the author of the WSJ article isn't a neutral
commentator.

WSJ is owned by Rupert Murdoch. Definitely not neutral.

My grandfather was a vet and went to the VA. They sucked then, and apparently they still suck. No argument there.

But that's not exclusive to the VA. The medical industry in this country is a mess, and it needs to be reformed. I don't know what the answer is, but the people putting out all this disinformation have the agenda of keeping it exactly the way it is because that's their bread and butter. How many people have died because their private health insurer refused the treatment that would save them?

Anyone who has an agenda (right or left) can find an argument for or against anything. I prefer being in the middle and using my brain to try to figure out when I'm being lied to and manipulated. Lot of it coming out of the health care industry these days, for sure.

I sure wish I had the nearly free government run and government funded healthcare that my elected representatives get.. but that is besides the point.

Why is everyone so afraid of death? Why is everyone so afraid of talking about difficult subjects? God forbid you allow someone the chance to talk about the possible depression they are experiencing due to a severe, chronic illness.

My grandpa died of terminal prostate cancer this past Thursday. Thank God he entered hospice, thank God his insurance covered visits with his doctor to discuss his palliative care options, thank God he as well as the rest of my family were not so freaked out about the fact that he was going to die in less than a year that they utilitized the compassionate care and direction of his oncologist to examine his choices. Because he talked with his caregivers, openly, he was able to sort through the horrible choices he would have to make the closer he got to his death. My grandmother had to make similar choices 7 years ago, when she died from terminal lung cancer. They both had insurance and their insurance actually covered visits with their oncologists as well as their hospice care.

I have been present at nearly 150 deaths now in the four years I have been a chaplain. Some of these deaths were truly horrible experiences for everyone involved. Did you know that your dear old uncle Bob, whom you haven't seen in 15 years, can randomly show up, insisting that your life support be continued, despite your spouses wishes- and he can be successful. Your children can decide to end life support for your husband, despite your wish to keep him going, your cousin could show up and do the same. There are no laws protecting you in the state of Indiana unless you discuss these issues with your loved ones and have everything on paper and on file with your physician. These are issues that need discussing and should not be avoided. I cannot for the life of me even begin to comprehend why people are so opposed to coverage for end of life discussions. While that VA workbook may not be the most tactful resource out there, it does ask questions that need to be asked. My suggestion would be for some rephrasing and ensuring that people who are working through the booklet have actual discussions with a physician and/or social worker or nurse case manager.

I don't think the government will run it any worse than the private companies are running it, let's put it that way. I said it needs reform, I didn't say it needed to be a single payer (which is not being proposed anyway).

I would seriously apprecate you pointing me in the direction of the suggestions the Republicans have made, because I honestly haven't seen anything constructive. They are making a lot of noise and pretending that the Dems aren't listening so that they can tell their loyal followers that they are trying. And I've also heard most of them say they're voting no regardless of what's in the bill. Most of them are getting tons of campaign funds from the insurance and pharma companies. Probably the Dems are too. Where would their loyalties be in that case?

I don't know what "Obamacare" will do or not do. Obama has said that the public option is only a very small part of the reform. There is no way the big business health and pharma industries are going to relinquish all of their stranglehold on this country for us to have a single payer sysem. I don't think that's the good answer either. I do think we need a public option. We have one anyway we're paying for in Medicaid and trips to the ER by people who can't afford insurance now.

I have private insurance and there are guidelines my physician has to follow when deciding what kind of care I need, put there by the insurance companies. Those companies are not out for your best interest, you can believe that. I also have a window when my empoyer funds run out that I have to pay 100% for everything. When you have medicine that costs $300 per perscription, and more than one prescrition, that's rough.

I'm just at a loss as to why the Republicans don't stop spreading the disinformation and lies and actually work toward making this a true reform that would be good for the entire country. The same goes for the Democrats, because I don't think too highly of most of them either. Then you've got the health care executives who are making millions of dollars and still denying people the care they need and the drug companies who are willing to spend millions of dollars a day to get this reform killed like they did the last time. So how much money do you think they're making off of us if they can afford to do that?

When I come on here and make these statements it's not from a Democratic point of view, because I'm not a Democrat, I'm an Independent. In the past I've voted Republican more than I've voted Democratic. But I'm so turned off by the tactics being thrown at us from the Right that I will NOT vote Republican again until they start being a responsible party again and stop playing to the fringe.

None of this is directed at you personally ckblv, so forgive me if I come across that way sometimes. We all have strong beliefs and this is a great forum to express them. I am honestly interested in all points of view, but if someone wants to sway me to their way of thinking (and I can be swayed), it has to be with facts, and not statements that I can prove are not true.

My husband has VA benefits and he never has to wait in line. Mind you we do live in Nebraska and there isn't very many people here. He is working on a hearing disability he received when he was in basic training that resulted in 90% hearing loss. They have been on top of things with him.

I don't have insurance, the company I work for offers terrible insurance that isn't worth what you have to pay for it. I feel we need health care reform but not Obama's plan.

Didn't I read somewhere in the health care bill, Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of atty. Mandatory!

I don't think so!!!! We just did all that a few weeks ago with our lawyer and I'll be darned if the government is going to take that over too. They want to get more and more into our personal business and this bill will give them more leverage.

** First - A sidenote - this hoopla about the "Death Book" is being stoked by Jim Towney who has his OWN book that he wants the VA to purchase & use instead of "Your Life,Your Choices! Shoud we say "Conflict of Interest" here **
Actually, that is something that everyone SHOULD be thinking about.
What the disabled people whom I know (*typically stroke-victims and other acquired brain injury victims, because my daughter has the same condition, so those are the types that we meet) DO worry about are exactly those tough questions on line 21. I have a friend who had a stroke at age 52 & now his mother changes his diapers - his fecal incontinence makes him afraid to have any company. His mother is in her 70s and he has decided that no extraordinary measures are to be taken if he worsens - he is willing to starve to death before he becomes such a great burden and he does not want to be put into an assisted living home. He is a proponent of assisted suicide, as is my friend from childhood who is a postpolio survivor (she is in a wheelchair).
IMO, their outlook on this is not because they feel less than human, but rather, they know the true pain and agony and hopelessness of illness, and they accept the old adage that "sometimes death comes as a friend".
I read page 21, and it isn't bad at all.
IMO, the "right wingers" are supporting some very naughty scare-tactics and those who are the most worried should do themselves a favor & consider other views:
http://www.rihlp.org/pubs/Your_life_your_choices.pdf

http://mediamatters.org/blog/200908260049
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/08...y5265155.shtml http://www.examiner.com/x-5738-Polit...ly-favors-life