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Disrespecting the Bible

post #1 of 23
8/3/09 at 9:33am
Thread Starter 
We know that the Bible is disrespected, but - will the Koran be so easily disrespected?

News article today in: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6736696.ece

Heading: Eight Christians burnt to death in Pakistan after Koran is ‘defiled’

excerpt from article:
Hundreds of armed supporters of Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, an outlawed Islamic militant group, set alight dozens of Christian homes in Gojra town at the weekend after allegations that a copy of the Koran had been defiled.

Should we be concerned? What happens to us if we also decide not to respect the Koran, too - just like the Bible is disrespected?
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post #2 of 23
8/4/09 at 1:11pm
Wow, what a sad article. I'm a Christian myself but believe we should be respectful of other people's beliefs. That doesn't mean I think they are correct beliefs, but respect is a mark of class. People who feel they are being respected are more likely to respect you back. I cannot recall one instance in my Bible where Jesus needed to torch the religious texts of any other religion, nor did he tear down individuals. Instead, he worried about teaching the nature of God, that God loves us and he did that by relating to people. We'd all be better off if we followed his example.
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post #3 of 23
8/4/09 at 6:36pm
That is sad. Religions should be abolished...IMO it isn't even right for Christians to say people of other beliefs are destined for hell. It's something that can upset others. The truth is that most religions contain beliefs that could be viewed as insulting or upsetting to people who are not of that same religion and I think that's just wrong....
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post #4 of 23
8/4/09 at 7:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
That is sad. Religions should be abolished...IMO it isn't even right for Christians to say people of other beliefs are destined for hell. It's something that can upset others. The truth is that most religions contain beliefs that could be viewed as insulting or upsetting to people who are not of that same religion and I think that's just wrong....
I cannot let this go. You are right that nobody should say that people of other beliefs are destined for hell. However, I need to point out two things. One: not all Christians believe this. Two: it is not only Christians who do, in whatever form. Nobody has a monopoly on this view, and just because you can identify some of the people who do as Christians, that does not mean it is true of all Christians or only Christians. I'm getting tired of being tarred with that brush!

The other thing I have to say is, religions should not be abolished. They have their place for some people, and those people are entitled to that expression of their faith. That does not mean you or anyone else is required to believe, to subscribe to any of those religions, or anything else of the sort, only to respect other peoples' right to. If I am required to allow you your disbelief -- and I am happy to -- you should also allow me my belief. Fair's fair.
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post #5 of 23
8/4/09 at 7:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rapunzel47 View Post
If I am required to allow you your disbelief -- and I am happy to -- you should also allow me my belief.
I have to say I agree with you. It goes back to my point about respect. If people would treat each other with it we wouldn't have half the problems we do.
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post #6 of 23
8/4/09 at 10:37pm
I would like to believe that most religious people are respectful of the beliefs of others, but there will always be exceptions, especially in certain parts of the world. At the same time if you look at religion from a historical perspective, even those of the same "base" faith have committed acts of brutality against different sects/denominations of that religion.
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post #7 of 23
8/4/09 at 10:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essayons89 View Post
I would like to believe that most religious people are respectful of the beliefs of others, but there will always be exceptions, especially in certain parts of the world. At the same time if you look at religion from a historical perspective, even those of the same "base" faith have committed acts of brutality against different sects/denominations of that religion.
Certainly what happened in my own family history here in California is an example of that. For instance, my grandfather was a "" because his parents were married by the tribal elders in a traditional ceremony rather than by a certified minister or justice of the peace.
Still, my heart cries for the sufferings of those Christians. How brave they are - truly saints, because they know only too well the risks they run by not denying Him, even among a culture of Muslim fanatics. I hope and pray that they are, this very minute, over RB, getting lots of headbutts and purrs from our dear TCS kitties and licks & wags from our TCS dogs.
Sending mega prayers and vibes for those who are still alive to suffer - may they be blessed with speedy healing and comfort from their great sorrows
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post #8 of 23
8/5/09 at 12:55am
A couple of things I noticed from the article;

There appears to be no proof, at least not presented as of yet, that the Christians did anything to promote this. There was an allegation, but nothing more. An inventory of things alleged by extremist groups would make this part suspect in my eyes.

And...the group of extremists that did this are outlawed even by Muslim standards, so to make it an "Islamic thing" just isn't fair either.
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post #9 of 23
8/5/09 at 5:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
That is sad. Religions should be abolished...IMO it isn't even right for Christians to say people of other beliefs are destined for hell. It's something that can upset others. The truth is that most religions contain beliefs that could be viewed as insulting or upsetting to people who are not of that same religion and I think that's just wrong....
It can upset others? Where do we draw the line?? A lot of things can upset others. Religions abolished?! I am shaking my head in disbelief.... It's getting to where I don't recognize Americans anymore.

I am so sick of political correctness!!
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post #10 of 23
8/5/09 at 5:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rapunzel47 View Post
I cannot let this go. You are right that nobody should say that people of other beliefs are destined for hell. However, I need to point out two things. One: Not all Christians believe this. Two: It is not only Christians who do, in whatever form. Nobody has a monopoly on this view, and just because you can identify some of the people who do as Christians, that does not mean it is true of all Christians or only Christians. I'm getting tired of being tarred with that brush!

The other thing I have to say is, religions should not be abolished. They have their place for some people, and those people are entitled to that expression of their faith. That does not mean you or anyone else is required to believe, to subscribe to any of those religions, or anything else of the sort, only to respect other peoples' right to. If I am required to allow you your disbelief -- and I am happy to -- you should also allow me my belief. Fair's fair.
well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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post #11 of 23
8/5/09 at 6:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
A couple of things I noticed from the article;

There appears to be no proof, at least not presented as of yet, that the Christians did anything to promote this. There was an allegation, but nothing more. An inventory of things alleged by extremist groups would make this part suspect in my eyes.

And...the group of extremists that did this are outlawed even by Muslim standards, so to make it an "Islamic thing" just isn't fair either.
Mike, it's always a treat to me to see that voice of reason.
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post #12 of 23
8/5/09 at 7:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
Mike, it's always a treat to me to see that voice of reason.
like most Christians reject the actions of the more extreme factions of their religion, like those that protest gay soldeirs' funerals or bomb abortion clinics, these Muslim extremist groups are not what Islam is about and regularly twist things to meet their needs
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post #13 of 23
8/5/09 at 8:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
A couple of things I noticed from the article;

There appears to be no proof, at least not presented as of yet, that the Christians did anything to promote this. There was an allegation, but nothing more. An inventory of things alleged by extremist groups would make this part suspect in my eyes.

And...the group of extremists that did this are outlawed even by Muslim standards, so to make it an "Islamic thing" just isn't fair either.
Also good points. Thanks, Mike.
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post #14 of 23
8/5/09 at 10:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rapunzel47 View Post
I cannot let this go. You are right that nobody should say that people of other beliefs are destined for hell. However, I need to point out two things. One: not all Christians believe this. Two: it is not only Christians who do, in whatever form. Nobody has a monopoly on this view, and just because you can identify some of the people who do as Christians, that does not mean it is true of all Christians or only Christians. I'm getting tired of being tarred with that brush!

The other thing I have to say is, religions should not be abolished. They have their place for some people, and those people are entitled to that expression of their faith. That does not mean you or anyone else is required to believe, to subscribe to any of those religions, or anything else of the sort, only to respect other peoples' right to. If I am required to allow you your disbelief -- and I am happy to -- you should also allow me my belief. Fair's fair.
I know, I know..I didn't mean it literally that religions should be abolished lol i know that's nowhere near realistic. But in my idea of a perfect world religions don't exist.
I know it isn't only christians who believe all others are going to hell and it isn't all christians. But, with the exception of some sane people and a few sane denominations, a lot of the religions trash each other back and forth. Wasn't it Muslims who believed that the day Jews are allowed access to Israel is the beginning of the end of the world? Sorry, that to me doesn't seem like simply agreeing to disagree which is how most Americans view the different religious beliefs.
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post #15 of 23
8/5/09 at 4:59pm
Actually if you go back to the beginning - the Jews, Christians, and Muslims all are from the same base - Abraham. Just that some went one direction with their own God, some just believe in God, and the others believe in Jesus Christ as the son of God.
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post #16 of 23
8/6/09 at 7:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Actually if you go back to the beginning - the Jews, Christians, and Muslims all are from the same base - Abraham. Just that some went one direction with their own God, some just believe in God, and the others believe in Jesus Christ as the son of God.
I believe they all have the same God - just call him/her by a different name. Jewish folks just do not believe Jesus is the Messiah and are still waiting for the Messiah but believe in God as in the Christian Old Testament.

They each have their own "Bible" which actually confirms to me that their forefathers each wrote a different version of the same events and thus why I don't believe the Christian Bible is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth any more than the Koran or Torah.
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post #17 of 23
8/6/09 at 10:57am
Yea I think it was the jews were descendants of one of Abraham's sons and then the muslims of his other son who was illegitimate?? So if I remember correctly one of the reasons why muslims resent jews is because Abraham treated his legitimate son better, the one that the jews descended from..I can't remember the names of the sons. I don't know how it is that so many vastly different religions tell very similar stories. Like the walking on water, healing the sick and being born of a virgin is not only applied to Jesus Christ- there are many prophets or gods from completely different religions that have the same characteristics. This leads me to believe that if not completely false, all those acts of miracles are metaphoric and not even they are supposed to be taken literally or as facts. It's very interesting though, kind of like how those very primitive polytheistic cultures who never came into contact always end up with very similar deities..
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post #18 of 23
8/6/09 at 11:53am
Let me just start off my saying first and foremost, the mob actions in pakistan are beyond disgusting and are the result of a tribal, jihiliyah (ignorant/barbaric) culture, rather than anything based in islam. Mob "justice" is impermissible, as is killing anyone by fire.


Second, from the muslims' perspective, Ibrahim (as/alayhi salaam/peace be upon him) had 2 sons, both of whom were legitimate. The story also differs in that it was Ismael (as) who God asked Ibrahim (as) to sacrifice, not Isaac (as). The arabs believe they are the descendants of Ibrahim through Ismael, and all muslims consider themselves the spiritual heirs of Ibrahim (as), although 80% are in fact not arab, and would not have any lineage connection. Nothing in the story causes any resentment of muslims towards jews.
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post #19 of 23
8/7/09 at 12:15pm
Thread Starter 
What is "disprespecting" the Koran - anyone know the "law"?
I'll try and research, meanwhile, maybe someone knows.

Here's one example.
Link: http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/19602/

Heading: Iran Singer Gets Jail Term for Koran Disrespect, Says Iran TV

Excerpt: In a report posted on its website last week, the semi-official IQNA news agency (Iran's Quran News Agency) named the plaintiff as Abbas Salimi and quoted him as saying Namjoo was accused of "derisive rendering of Koran verses and disrespect towards" the holy book.
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post #20 of 23
8/14/09 at 10:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rapunzel47 View Post
The other thing I have to say is, religions should not be abolished. They have their place for some people, and those people are entitled to that expression of their faith. That does not mean you or anyone else is required to believe, to subscribe to any of those religions, or anything else of the sort, only to respect other peoples' right to. If I am required to allow you your disbelief -- and I am happy to -- you should also allow me my belief. Fair's fair.
If everyone would share you're opionion and "live and let live," we would have a glorious world. It seem as though more harm has been caused over the centuries in the name of religion than any other issue.
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post #21 of 23
8/20/09 at 2:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty8723 View Post
If everyone would share you're opionion and "live and let live," we would have a glorious world. It seem as though more harm has been caused over the centuries in the name of religion than any other issue.
Probably the cause of more wars and killings than any other single issue. Unfortunately religious zealots can't be happy unless they impose their beliefs on others, or cause harm to others based on some wacky idea of divine inspiration as in the case of the 9/11 terrorists.
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post #22 of 23
8/20/09 at 2:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty's Mom View Post
Probably the cause of more wars and killings than any other single issue.
I'm not so sure about this. Historically, a lot of supposed "Holy Wars" have been motivated by economics, land grabs, etc. and the religious stuff was just how the rulers sold the people on fighting it. If it weren't for religion, they would have found some other way.
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post #23 of 23
8/20/09 at 4:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebrillblaiddes View Post
I'm not so sure about this. Historically, a lot of supposed "Holy Wars" have been motivated by economics, land grabs, etc. and the religious stuff was just how the rulers sold the people on fighting it. If it weren't for religion, they would have found some other way.
I agree somewhat, but both Christianity and Islam were spread in part with the help of the sword. Going back further, the Hebrews claimed areas of the "Promised Land" through the use of force.

The Crusades were as much about "liberating" Jerusalem and the Holy Land, as they were about power and greed. Muslims and Christians didn't just fight with each other, there are many instances of infighting between the two during the Crusades.

King Philip IV of France persecuted the Knights Templar because he was in debt and wanted their wealth. This was done in the name of religion with the backing of a weak pope.
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