Lets discuss wet and dry foods

ping

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I have noticed this question seems to be coming up more often and I thought a discuss on this might be good.

I know there are people that are opposed to a wet diet only and I know there are people that are opposed to a dry diet only. I never really quite understood the extremes.

When Ping first came into our lives three years ago I tried to do everything everyone else said about feeding. I did the all wet and never dry. I never really liked this because I never felt that he got enough food and he always seemed to be starving on just 2 meals a day. So then I went to the extreme of an all dry diet but did not like that because he never really drank water even though I had a water dish out at all times.

It was then that I made changes that has worked well for us and that was a combination of the two. Wet food twice a day and I rotate the different types (from more expensive things like Eagle Pack to less expensive things like Meow Mix cups) and a cat fountain. Ping became a happier less starving cat and drank more water and I was a more happy momma.

Occasionally I will get a small amount of raw beef chucks for them (we have 3 cats now).

I guess in the end I came to believe that you have to do whats best for your home and what works. Extremes do not work for everyone or every situation.

Now I was wondering if anyone else would like to share their thoughts.
 

missymotus

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I prefer to feed my cats a more natural diet, so they are raw fed. I would feed all wet if not raw, and feel if your cat is hungry on 2 wet meals then feed them more!

I don't believe in free feeding, the kittens are fed 4-5 smaller meals a day and the adults 3.
 

catattack1985

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Originally Posted by Ping

I have noticed this question seems to be coming up more often and I thought a discuss on this might be good.

I know there are people that are opposed to a wet diet only and I know there are people that are opposed to a dry diet only. I never really quite understood the extremes.

When Ping first came into our lives three years ago I tried to do everything everyone else said about feeding. I did the all wet and never dry. I never really liked this because I never felt that he got enough food and he always seemed to be starving on just 2 meals a day. So then I went to the extreme of an all dry diet but did not like that because he never really drank water even though I had a water dish out at all times.

It was then that I made changes that has worked well for us and that was a combination of the two. Wet food twice a day and I rotate the different types (from more expensive things like Eagle Pack to less expensive things like Meow Mix cups) and a cat fountain. Ping became a happier less starving cat and drank more water and I was a more happy momma.

Occasionally I will get a small amount of raw beef chucks for them (we have 3 cats now).

I guess in the end I came to believe that you have to do whats best for your home and what works. Extremes do not work for everyone or every situation.

Now I was wondering if anyone else would like to share their thoughts.
I am one of the advocates of a raw or (if not possible) a high quality wet (canned) diet for cats. Either way, I discourage dry kibble.

I have a few reasons for this, and before I get into them, I should say that they're all based on GENERALITIES and there are always exceptions to general statements (i.e, there's always going to be a cat that lived to be 24 off 100% dry kibble, and there's always going to be the cat that never had any health problems off kibble, and there's always going to be the cat that drinks water like crazy and refuses all wet food, etc, etc.)

I advocate a raw (preferably) or a high quality canned wet diet because:

- IN GENERAL, cats do not drink a lot of water, so they rely on their food for water in-take. Dry food contains almost NO water. A cat that eats 100% dry kibble would need to consume about 1 1/4 cups of water in order to stay properly hydrated, and no cat that I've ever heard of (even the really water-loving ones) drink THAT much a day. Dehydration leads to problems like UTIs and other bladder/kidney infections that plague many cats.

- IN GENERAL, dry food contains some amount of grain or plant-derived "fillers" to hold the kibble together which contributes to a high carbohydrate load which is totally unnecesscary for a cat. Cats, as carnivores, do not digest or store carbohydrates very well and cannot readily utilize them in their bodies. In the wild, their carb in-take would equal less than 10% -- but in many commercial dry cat foods, the carb percentage usually ranges between 20-50%, the higher end being the cheapest of cat foods. Too many carbs in a cat's diet leads to fat cats, and problems with obestity, feline diabetes, liver & stomach problems, grain allergies, and numerous other problems.

- IN GENERAL, the grain "fillers" used in dry food (mentioned above) can be problematic for cats, not only for allergy reasons, but nutritionally, too. Corn is the #1 ingredient in some of the cheapest dry cat foods. Beyond that, it's wheat gluten, soy, rice, barley, oat, and different grain-based flours and brans. No cat is designed to eat meat-flavored cereal, which is what some brands are equal to nutritonally speaking. Other brands of cat food, even high quality ones, may contain some source of grain - but even if they don't, they likely rely on vegetables and fruit deritivities to supply necesscary nurtients. These nutrients can come from animal sources, too - it's just cheaper to produce them from plant-based sources - which, unfortunately, are not as useful to a cat.

- Dehydrated meat pellets just isn't a natural state of food for a cat. Raw wet meat and bones is.
Barring that, wet cooked meat is the second best option... which would be home-made cooked and commercial canned, in that order.

- There is a LONG debate about dental health in cats who eat dry vs. those who eat wet. In short, it is thought that those who eat dry have cleaner teeth because they chew their food - vs. those who eat wet (particularly pate style canned foods) as they slurp down their food without using their teeth, causing them to rot and fall out.
Studies done on this show very little difference between cats who are fed dry & those fed wet. A cat who eats kibble is likely to swallow kibble bits whole - and when they are chewed, the sugars and starches cause bacteria (plaque) to form around the teeth anyway. Dry food has been compared to eating a pretzel, and the feeling of pretzel stuck in your teeth afterward. Dry food is not a replacement for bone. Cats who chew bone and eat raw meat in the wild experience healthier teeth because it acts as a natural 'toothbrush'. Domestic cats who are not fed raw bone and chunks of meat need regular toothbrushing to maintain healthy teeth.

- Cats who are "free fed" kibble may not take to eating canned food, or other foods, as kibble will be their "go to" food if ever invited to try something new. They may become quite addicted to it. They also have a higher chance of becoming overweight if they do not naturally regulate their food consumption (so many cats are gluttons!)

I'm not ANTI kibble, so much as I am PRO wet food for cats. At least for a main meal. If used at all, kibble should only be used as a rare snack or treat, IMO -- but let's face it - not every cat is the same, and I know many cat owners who feed 100% dry kibble because their cats REFUSE to eat anything else. What else can you do??? Choose the BEST dry kibble you can afford, in that case. (The best dry kibble I know of is Wellness CORE.) And make sure your cat is drinking PLENTY of water.

If you have a cat that WILL eat canned (or better yet, raw meat & bones if possible), I do believe it is better than kibble -- if feeding canned, opt for a high quality canned, like Wellness, because low quality canned, while still better than low quality dry food IMO, is still pretty bad and full of fillers, too.

My 4 year old cat was probably raised on low-quality kibble & canned. I adopted him a month ago, and transitioned him from low quality canned & kibble to high quality canned & kibble, to 100% high quality canned, to 100% raw. He's doing great, and I have to yell the benefits of raw whenever I possibly can because I can see it's made such a difference already. He is so much healthier, shinier, more active, fresher smelling.. it's just incredible. Even the difference between 100% high quality canned and 100% raw is amazing.....

Because I feed raw, and this is a general discussion about wet and dry food (commercial and non-commercial) -- I cannot even get into the problems with the commercial pet food industry.... another topic for another time, but somewhat related.....
 

darlili

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The September Cat Fancy notes that the Winn Feline Foundation has funded research at the University of Tennesee which will examine a commercially produced raw food diet and a homemade raw food diet to determine if they are nutritionally adequate for growing kittens and if they enhance the immune system and digestion (the researchers are Beth Hamper, DVM, Claudia Kirk, DVM, PhD, and Joseph Bartges DVM, PhD). Apparently this will be the first study to examine raw food diets in a scientific setting - from what I've read, most other findings have been anecdotal in nature, even when stated by vets.

In any event, hopefully this research will provide more hard data for pet parents to evaluate when deciding what will work for their pets, and them.

I think we can all agree that there's probably no one perfect diet for every cat - and no one perfect food that works into everyone's budget and time constraints. As was noted, for every example, there will no doubt be another example showing the opposite result - although again, I think we can all agree that most indoor cats in the US, at least, are now living far longer than even a generation or two ago.

I suspect that's based on more sophisticated medical care and research being available and the wider availability of at pet foods meeting certain feeding standards at all price points.

What further research will find is an on-going process - but I don't think anyone wants to make anyone feel badly for feeding their cats a diet that works for them.
 

catattack1985

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Originally Posted by darlili

The September Cat Fancy notes that the Winn Feline Foundation has funded research at the University of Tennesee which will examine a commercially produced raw food diet and a homemade raw food diet to determine if they are nutritionally adequate for growing kittens and if they enhance the immune system and digestion (the researchers are Beth Hamper, DVM, Claudia Kirk, DVM, PhD, and Joseph Bartges DVM, PhD). Apparently this will be the first study to examine raw food diets in a scientific setting - from what I've read, most other findings have been anecdotal in nature, even when stated by vets.
Interested in the results of this study... there are many variables, such as the composition of the raw diets the study will be using..... there are so many recipes, etc....
 
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ping

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Then and now I have not been able to feed 5 meals a day. At latest I am out the door by 7am at latest and home at 5pm at the earliest. My husband pretty much works the same hours. No one is here to feed 5 meals a day. None of the cats are overweight so I must be doing something right for them.

As I said in my first post nothing is cut and dry. What might work for one might not work for another. There is more room for more then just A and B.

Originally Posted by missymotus

I prefer to feed my cats a more natural diet, so they are raw fed. I would feed all wet if not raw, and feel if your cat is hungry on 2 wet meals then feed them more!

I don't believe in free feeding, the kittens are fed 4-5 smaller meals a day and the adults 3.
 
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ping

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Post #3 My cats have never totally gone off of any of the wet food I have given them. Meaning they have never totally refused any wet that I have given them because of the dry food. They may go off of one brand for awhile because they get tired of it but when I go and get a different brand they gobble it down. And not that I have the fountain the drink tons of water (I refill 2 to 3 times a day) but they did not like water that just sat in a bowl.

Post 4
I think we can all agree that there's probably no one perfect diet for every cat - and no one perfect food that works into everyone's budget and time constraints. As was noted, for every example, there will no doubt be another example showing the opposite result - although again, I think we can all agree that most indoor cats in the US, at least, are now living far longer than even a generation or two ago.
Hopefully at some point in time everyone every where can agree with this. But as it stands now there are many many people that do not seem to agree with this. I do how see that at least on here most people do agree with this statement.
 

darlili

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Me too re timing of meals - I'm single, out the door by 7:00 am Monday through Friday, back around 6:30 or 7:00 pm. I do some wet morning and evening, and kibble the rest of the day - my girl, especially, is a nibbler. My overweight when adopted male has lost weight, and both my girl and boy have gotten good check-ups and had flying colors with their last full blood panel work in early June. Basically, they're happy, vet's happy, I'm happy....and they do like their new Drinkwell 360 - even more than the Platinum.

If I had a different schedule, maybe I'd try something different - and surely would if kitties weren't healthy.
 

darlili

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It will be interesting to see the results of the Winn study - and hopefully we may get more, professional, studies done on the various diets in the future as well. It may help vets in providing guidance to clients - I really don't blame vets for being uneasy about he-said, she-said, data. And since vets tend to be the ones who see 'bad' results of ill-designed diets of any type, I'm not surprised they tend to be gun-shy until they see hard studies.
 
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ping

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Exactly Darili if things were different I would do that but as it stands it just not possible.

And for the record, its not like I put half a bag down. I split a 10 oz or so cup between bowls, thats it until supper. Before I go to bed I put a little in each bowl.
 

catattack1985

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Originally Posted by Ping

Post #3 My cats have never totally gone off of any of the wet food I have given them. Meaning they have never totally refused any wet that I have given them because of the dry food. They may go off of one brand for awhile because they get tired of it but when I go and get a different brand they gobble it down. And not that I have the fountain the drink tons of water (I refill 2 to 3 times a day) but they did not like water that just sat in a bowl.
As I said, SOME cats do. The above are GENERALITIES. We all have to do what's best given our own unique situations and personalities.....

Just wondering though, why do you choose to feed dry if your cats "gobble" wet???


Also, I feed my adult cat raw food twice a day (4 oz at each meal, 8 oz a day) -- and I often work 10-12 hour days.

My cat has NO problem with this. In nature, cats wouldn't always have food to graze all day long on. As long as he's eating the necessary amount & calories he needs in a period of 24 hours, and is not skipping meals, there's no issue with feeding twice a day to an adult cat --- not recommended for kittens, though, who need more food more frequently... This is one reason I chose NOT to get a kitten, because I knew I wouldn't be able to devote enough time to feed him, watch after him, train him, etc.....
 
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ping

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#11 I say gobble as in they don't hesitate to eat the wet I put down because I feed dry on a free feed basis. They like their wet food and it I could feed it more times a day I would but not possible as it stands.

Maybe I have strange cats that love their dry food as much as their wet food I don't. But Ping has always been that way no matter brand of wet food I feed until he gets bored then he will go off that brand for awhile.

ETA: When it was just Ping here and I tried the 2 feedings a day (very short lived) I would come home or wake up in the morning to trash can knocked over with stuff dragged out because he was looking for more food. If two feedings were enough in a day for him he would not be doing that. But when I started free feeding dry in between that stopped.
 

catattack1985

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Originally Posted by Ping

ETA: When it was just Ping here and I tried the 2 feedings a day (very short lived) I would come home or wake up in the morning to trash can knocked over with stuff dragged out because he was looking for more food. If two feedings were enough in a day for him he would not be doing that. But when I started free feeding dry in between that stopped.
How much wet food were you feeding?? And how much does Ping weigh?? And is he really active?

My 12.5 lb. male cat, somewhat inactive, ate 1 5.5 - 6 oz. can of wet food a day, split into two meals - and was fine.
I fed him mostly Wellness and some Natural Balance brand.

Adult cats need about 20 x their ideal body weight in calories a day. (25 x for active cats).

It's possible your cat wasn't getting enough calories from the wet food from the amount or brand you were feeding him.

If your cat was truly hungry after eating this much, what would be wrong with feeding more wet at meal times, as suggested above? Or changing the wet to a higher quality, higher calorie wet food like Wellness? (I don't know what you feed?)
1 5.5 oz. can of Wellness has about 200-220 calories.
 

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If I had cats that would eat it, I would feed raw. However, both my cats don't like it. My younger cat, Little Guy, will eat a bit but then walk away. He gets half wet and half dry. For wet, he gets Prairie Homestyle in various flavours and Instinct in Rabbit, Chicken, Lamb, Venison and Duck. For dry, he gets Now! Turkey and Duck for Adult cats. My older cat, Schweppie, he's getting 3/4 wet and 1/4 dry. He gets EVO Turkey and Chicken for now and the Now! Turkey and Duck for dry. I'm trying Schweppie on mostly canned, all-meat diet because he has trouble digesting the veggies and fruits they put in most grain-free foods. I prefer starch-free foods but Little Guy likes the stew type canned so I mix it up with the Instinct. I feed dry because I can't afford an all canned diet, especially with the brands I buy. I've looked at feeding the lower quality wet but I can't seem to bring myself to do it when I read the ingredients. I'm not sure how good an all wet diet would be if it isn't a high quality food - is it better to feed a better quality dry with a low quality wet than to feed an all wet diet that is low quality? Little guy does seem to prefer the kibbles but he will eat the wet eventually. I'm paranoid about them getting overweight and having any urinary blockage issues too. I wish feeding wet didn't cost so much. Plus, I feed my dog premade raw which she was on before I got the cats. I've fed her grain-free canned for the last couple of days because I couldn't afford another batch of the raw until I got paid. Regardless, I spend a ridiculous amount of money on their food but when I see that they're healthy, it's worth it.

You do what you have to and even though in my opinion, raw is the most natural way to feed a cat or dog, that doesn't mean I'm going to look down on someone who feeds canned or dry. If your animal doesn't accept raw or canned, what can you do? If you can only afford dry or a combination of both, then you do the best you can. What I wish more companies would do is make their canned in the bigger cans so I don't have to buy a ton of little cans all the time. They sell the EVO in bigger cans and it's cheaper but the other foods come only in the small cans. Anyways, cats aren;t like dogs and won't starve themselves and eat it just because it's the only thing available. The way I see it, your cats have a good home and are not living in a cage alone or outside starving. That's how I found my Schweppie! Although, the way he whines sometimes, you'd think he was starving!
 
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ping

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Right now what I do works for me and the kitties so I don't plan to change. Then and now he (they) get 3-4 oz per feeding. But that was never enough because it between feedings he would get into what he could to eat. Once I did dry in between it worked well for him and me.

Until very recently you could not get any big cans of cat food locally. Driving out of the way by 1 hour one way soon became unavoidable and shipping it in was to expensive. We have a new feed store that opened and they special order bigger cans of food for me and they come in Monday.

As I said this works for us and the vet has never said anything was wrong with my cats and they are healthy.
 

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I believe that the BEST diet would be a raw diet, but that's clearly not for everyone. Premade raw is very expensive (sometimes $10 a pound) and if you work long hours it's just not practical to feed raw. In that case canned is best. I do freely call dry kibble crack, and I'm not a fan of it. However, diet is just one part of proper cat care and I'm not going to shove wet down people's throats. I mean, some foster homes don't have the money to feed raw and some owners dry their best but fall on hard times. And some cats just refuse wet/raw. In that case a high quality, grain-free diet with running water is great!
 

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if you work long hours it's just not practical to feed raw.

I have to disagree with this. Simply working long hours isn't what makes feeding raw impractical -- it's about lifestyle, time management, commitment. If your lifestyle is such that you don't scoop litter every day, or don't wash bowls every day, or can't make the time or find the energy to make and freeze balanced raw meals -- then feeding raw isn't for you. But simply working long hours isn't to blame.

And as I said, I frequently work 10-12 hour days, and I work 6 days a week. I go shopping and make cat food on my one day off, once or twice a month. It takes just a little over an hour, including clean-up time.

I make 20-30 servings of cat food at a time, usually enough to last me an entire month. I freeze the rest, and simply thaw it in the fridge for a few days so it's ready-to-serve before I leave & when I come home.

I find it fun. Some would say I need a hobby.


Anyway, I strongly feel my schedule shouldn't inconvienience my cat -- if I felt I was too busy to feed what I feel is a proper diet for a cat, I wouldn't have adopted one.
 
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ping

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And if it works for you great. Just remember that it may not for others. I don't feel that the way I feed my cats hurt them. They are healthy, happy, playful, have soft shiny coats, etc on a diet that includes wet and dry food.

I don't feel my schedule is an inconvenience for me or my cats I just had to find a balance that works for all of us. That is the way it is in life I think, finding a balance that works for everyone and makes everyone happy.

Originally Posted by catattack1985

Anyway, I strongly feel my schedule shouldn't inconvienience my cat -- if I felt I was too busy to feed what I feel is a proper diet for a cat, I wouldn't have adopted one.
 

catattack1985

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Originally Posted by Ping

And if it works for you great. Just remember that it may not for others. I don't feel that the way I feed my cats hurt them. They are healthy, happy, playful, have soft shiny coats, etc on a diet that includes wet and dry food.

I don't feel my schedule is an inconvenience for me or my cats I just had to find a balance that works for all of us. That is the way it is in life I think, finding a balance that works for everyone and makes everyone happy.
I am not disagreeing with you - in fact, I have said several times that it's about finding what works for you, etc, etc. I'm not sure why you feel you have to keep defending yourself -- I hope you know that I am not targetting you or attacking you in anyway.

Our opinions and styles simply differ. What *I* find appropriate isn't always going to be in agreement with what other's think. That's the way these things go.
 

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Raw once a week, wet food once a day, and dry twice a day. It works well for my 9 kitties since they do not beg for food at all.
 
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