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Why shouldn't we buy from pet stores? - Page 2

post #31 of 50
Good breeders do not like to sell to pet stores.
I would say at least 95% of kittens/puppies in the pet stores come from bad breeders.
The pet stores even charge more then the breeders do for the kittens/puppies.
I was careful when I was looking for a sphynx and got a good breeder thanks to Nial.
My sister got a very bad Devon Rex breeder and she is going to file a compliant soon with CFA.
Most the cats I have no one would want.
Meeko ahs herpes and a heart murmur.
Oreo has fcks and hr heart is tilted and Coco has asthma and CRF.
The CRF is because she is old but the asthma she has had for years.
post #32 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlyn View Post
Petsmart/Petco may adopt out dogs and cats from shelters, but where do you think their herps, birds and small animals come from?

Rabbits and birds are dumped at shelters nearly as much as cats and dogs.

That's a good point. But aren't small animals a little different then cats and dogs? I mean, animal shelters are full of cats and dogs. I can't imagine shelters being overcrowded from gerbils and fish. I don't know how the pet stores get those animals but I guess I could see why they'd get the from someplace other than a shelter.


Interestingly, there used to be a pet store around here in the early to mid 90's that had Piranhas in it. They weren't for sale, but it was the only pet store I ever saw them in.
post #33 of 50
One heavy reason Why not, is

by buing them from a shop = a mill, you dont buy the alternative, ie from a shelter if it is a moggie
or if the cat is purebreed - a real breeder.

Thus in case one: The "fabricated" kitten gets a home, but another kitten who could be saved, will die instead.

And in case two: A kitten from a verry low ranked breeder will be sold, and a kitten from a very good, responsible breeder - will probably not be sold.


The one little innocent individual will be saved, yes. The mills owner will get money, and the shop owner does OK.
But almost everyone else will be losers, including other innocent lives who could get a good home and thus be saved.
post #34 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilblu View Post
That's a good point. But aren't small animals a little different then cats and dogs? I mean, animal shelters are full of cats and dogs. I can't imagine shelters being overcrowded from gerbils and fish. I don't know how the pet stores get those animals but I guess I could see why they'd get the from someplace other than a shelter.
No, they are not really different. It's just that most shelters do not accept small animals. The ones that do are full of them, and the ones they don't have room for.. well, we all know someone who "let their guinea pigs go" or something along those lines. The plight for small animals is the same as for cats and dogs. Birds too! If there is no shelter near you that accepts small animals, the best thing to do is to look into a reputable breeder, or look for a rescue that specializes in just the one animal you are interested in. Trust me, they are out there!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilblu View Post
Are we talking about pet stores like Petsmart and Petco, or those smaller chains and/or independent stores? Because Petsmart and Petco sell/adopt out cats and dogs from shelters and rescue groups. I wouldn't think there would be an issue with that.
This, however, is a wonderful thing! The Petsmarts and Petcos around here also have agreements with local shelters and adopt out cats and dogs, and do not sell any. The more exposure animals that need rescue can get, the better! It is just as good to adopt from Petsmart as from the shelter directly -- if they don't get adopted from Petsmart, they go back to the shelter they came from anyway.

As far as I know, PetLand is the only major pet chain that sells puppies (maybe kittens too? I'm not sure). I am 100% sure that Petland has been linked to puppy mills. For the most part, however, the stores selling puppies and kittens (rather than adopting out ones from shelters) are small, local stores.
post #35 of 50
Trout came from a pet store. If I ever got another cat though, I would adopt one that was about a year old I think.

When I got Trout, I was not a member of this site and had no idea about anything cat-like. I have learned alot in the last 3 years though. (I would have also declawed Trout had I not been a member here and learned about the dangers)

Thank god for TCS!
post #36 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by srrh View Post
No, they are not really different. It's just that most shelters do not accept small animals. The ones that do are full of them, and the ones they don't have room for.. well, we all know someone who "let their guinea pigs go" or something along those lines. The plight for small animals is the same as for cats and dogs. Birds too! If there is no shelter near you that accepts small animals, the best thing to do is to look into a reputable breeder, or look for a rescue that specializes in just the one animal you are interested in. Trust me, they are out there!



This, however, is a wonderful thing! The Petsmarts and Petcos around here also have agreements with local shelters and adopt out cats and dogs, and do not sell any. The more exposure animals that need rescue can get, the better! It is just as good to adopt from Petsmart as from the shelter directly -- if they don't get adopted from Petsmart, they go back to the shelter they came from anyway.

As far as I know, PetLand is the only major pet chain that sells puppies (maybe kittens too? I'm not sure). I am 100% sure that Petland has been linked to puppy mills. For the most part, however, the stores selling puppies and kittens (rather than adopting out ones from shelters) are small, local stores.
Petland does sell kittens, at least they did when I worked there. This was the mid 90's. As well as ferrets, rabbits, guinea pigs and other small animals, reptiles, fish, birds, if it can sell, they sold it. And yes, the puppies came from a mill. Usually with fresh spay scars, still with stiches, and far too young.
As employees, we had quotas to meet every month, which were stictly enforced. Our jobs threatned if we did not sell, sell sell! The lives of the animals, or the homes they would go to meant nothing, it was all about making money. We were taught to sell, not care for the animals.
I quit, walked out. The final straw was a puppy that had blood in it's stool, it was pointed out to me by a customer. (I was bird dept) I told the manager immediatly, and was asked "Is it visible from the (sales) floor?" This manager hated me, mostly because I did care more about the animals than money. This was on a Friday. I was off the weekend and came back on Monday to find the puppy still with blood, a fever, laying in its cage half dead, and had not been vetted. I told one of the employees to take the dog NOW to the vet (who was a joke, but the only one we could take the animals to) and don't worry about getting in trouble, blame me for it (No managers there at that time) as she left, so did I. Couldn't take it anymore.
I could tell many more horror stories about this chain of stores
post #37 of 50
puppy mills are sick. They need to be illegal...Their existance offends me as a human being. I am so enraged by them ..
post #38 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trillcat View Post
Petland does sell kittens, at least they did when I worked there. This was the mid 90's. As well as ferrets, rabbits, guinea pigs and other small animals, reptiles, fish, birds, if it can sell, they sold it. And yes, the puppies came from a mill. Usually with fresh spay scars, still with stiches, and far too young.
As employees, we had quotas to meet every month, which were stictly enforced. Our jobs threatned if we did not sell, sell sell! The lives of the animals, or the homes they would go to meant nothing, it was all about making money. We were taught to sell, not care for the animals.
I quit, walked out. The final straw was a puppy that had blood in it's stool, it was pointed out to me by a customer. (I was bird dept) I told the manager immediatly, and was asked "Is it visible from the (sales) floor?" This manager hated me, mostly because I did care more about the animals than money. This was on a Friday. I was off the weekend and came back on Monday to find the puppy still with blood, a fever, laying in its cage half dead, and had not been vetted. I told one of the employees to take the dog NOW to the vet (who was a joke, but the only one we could take the animals to) and don't worry about getting in trouble, blame me for it (No managers there at that time) as she left, so did I. Couldn't take it anymore.
I could tell many more horror stories about this chain of stores
That is soooo sad
I am not surprised though. My local pet supermarket keeps gerbils, hamsters, guinea pigs and rabbits all in one big tank. They don't think about the fact that rabbits could step on the hamsters especially the drwarfs and the rabbits' presence is scaring the hamsters. I used to be enraged by the fact that hamsters were not kept separate but all together- since hamsters are solitary animals and fight to death if they are with others unless they are mating. Oh and forget about sexing them, such thing didn't matter to them. But when I saw all these different species of rodents together I was like this beats everything I've ever seen...And the employees who work there have this attitude like they all love the animals but you can see it's so fake just to sell..Like they may have some love for the animals but they over exaggerate it in front of the customer and that is very noticable.
This is why I hate corporate or retail jobs in general. They ask you to remove all personal beliefs and your individuality from your job and you have to put on this face that is all about selling but there is no one really there. I can see how some of these people may care about the animals outside of the job but once they step in at work they are forced to remove their feelings from the job. It's scary how easy that becomes..
post #39 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
I don't think not buying from a pet store makes a difference because there are way too many people who woudn't do their part. The only way to stop stupid irresponsible breeders and puppy mills is to take it to congress and make it illegal and make the guidelines for breeding into law. Although I wouldn't buy from a petstore that's just my beliefs I don't think enough people will ever boycott them ...it's sad but in my opinion reality. That doesn't mean I think people should buy from them..but I just don't think doing your part and not buying from pet stores will solve much.
It's the same with recycling and being conscious of environment. Not enough people will do it unless they are forced to the way they do it in Germany. All the rest of us who recycle it's a great thing but still doesn't solve the problem.
So yea I'm just saying for all of you who are concerned about it maybe you should write to your congressman and try to encourage friends to do the same rather than passively encouraging them not to buy from pet stores.
There are actually plenty of laws already on the books that just NEED TO BE ENFORCED. There is a rash of new legislation being written up DAILY all over the country..unfortunately this radical new legislation (which is unnecessary, due, again to those existing laws that simply need to be enforced) is driven by the animal rights movement and is designed to eliminate ALL breeding and ultimately ALL pet ownership. I kid you NOT! I am FAR more concerned about the animal rights movement and its influence on the general public's opinion (such that "all breeders are bad", "pet" is a bad word (NOT!!), "no animal should be in tact", mandatory s/n is good...etc....no no no no NO!) than I am about commercial breeders currently. Support them? No I do not! The way to fight it is to educate others and not support them. More laws...NO!! Animal welfare, not rights.
post #40 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilblu View Post
That's a good point. But aren't small animals a little different then cats and dogs? I mean, animal shelters are full of cats and dogs. I can't imagine shelters being overcrowded from gerbils and fish. I don't know how the pet stores get those animals but I guess I could see why they'd get the from someplace other than a shelter.


Interestingly, there used to be a pet store around here in the early to mid 90's that had Piranhas in it. They weren't for sale, but it was the only pet store I ever saw them in.
I personally don't have a problem with the sale of small animals...I just draw the line there and that's just my opinion. Often these same stores (like Petsmart for example) provide space for the local humane societies and rescues and I commend that. I'm not a fan of the radical in any form. There are many shades of grey!
post #41 of 50
A friend recently bought 2 kittens from a pet store. What was most frustrating was that she said to me "I was so inspired by all your rescue work, I adopted a kitten in need rather than a purebred". I felt like banging my head against a wall. She said it was a good pet store, because they take in animals off the street - but then went on to say that these kittens had come from the owners sister whose cat had kittens. Apparently whenever the cat has kittens, this store takes the kittens to sell. I was so mad - that just encourages people to be irresponsible, particular the sister!

So anyway, they paid a reasonable amount for the kittens, and the kittens were not spayed, were not vaccinated, and there was no adoption process.

If you adopt through a rescue group or shelter, they are almost always spayed/neutered, vaccinated, and health checked. There is an adoption process where they approve the adopter to make sure it's a good home, they have a contract in place where the animal is to be returned to them if they can't keep it for any reason.

Pet stores are not responsible like this, and do not care about the welfare of the animal, they just want the $$$.

In Australia, all the pet stores sell cats and dogs - kittens start at $100, and puppies at $200 or so, and are unpapered, unneutered, and unvaccinated usually because they're only 6 weeks old and too young for that, while thousands of kitties get put down at the RSPCA. That's the way it's always been, so the trend continues, and people don't see a problem with buying from the pet stores
post #42 of 50
We don't have any of the big petstore chains around here (I live in a fairly small town) but we do have a few small independently owned stores that sell animals. I can't say much about the dogs, but I have asked about the kittens and they all come from people who's cat went out and had an "oopsie". They couldn't find homes (or didn't really try) and it was either the pet store or the shelter. The price was usually vet costs (and probably a small handling fee) but the employee told me none of it went to the person that brought them in. I have never seen a pure bred cat in either store. They had one litter that looked like pure siamese but the employee said there were no papers and there's no guarantee that they were full bred so they were priced just like the others.

In situations like that, I have no problem with a pet store giving the animals a home and exposure until they can find a forever home for them. And, the people there really seemed to care about the animals, which I'm sure is lacking in some of the big stores where corporate offices are looking at the "big picture".

They did say one pup they got they had NO idea what mix it was and were honest about it. The description was actually "Breed: mix of all the best" and named her Mystery. She found a home in 24 hours! They had a pic of her on the wall behind the counter and she was a real cutie!
post #43 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahp View Post
A friend recently bought 2 kittens from a pet store. What was most frustrating was that she said to me "I was so inspired by all your rescue work, I adopted a kitten in need rather than a purebred". I felt like banging my head against a wall. She said it was a good pet store, because they take in animals off the street - but then went on to say that these kittens had come from the owners sister whose cat had kittens. Apparently whenever the cat has kittens, this store takes the kittens to sell. I was so mad - that just encourages people to be irresponsible, particular the sister!

So anyway, they paid a reasonable amount for the kittens, and the kittens were not spayed, were not vaccinated, and there was no adoption process.

If you adopt through a rescue group or shelter, they are almost always spayed/neutered, vaccinated, and health checked. There is an adoption process where they approve the adopter to make sure it's a good home, they have a contract in place where the animal is to be returned to them if they can't keep it for any reason.

Pet stores are not responsible like this, and do not care about the welfare of the animal, they just want the $$$.

In Australia, all the pet stores sell cats and dogs - kittens start at $100, and puppies at $200 or so, and are unpapered, unneutered, and unvaccinated usually because they're only 6 weeks old and too young for that, while thousands of kitties get put down at the RSPCA. That's the way it's always been, so the trend continues, and people don't see a problem with buying from the pet stores
Big reasons so why not........Thank you for make more clear this!...
post #44 of 50
In this country pet stores don't sell cats or dogs, it's forbidden (might be even illegal, I'm not sure). Why is it forbidden? Because there wouldn't be enough space to keep cats or dogs in the store, they need lots of room to play and live around and propably a lot more human contacts and socialising than other animals. They would propably destroy stuff in the store too, because it's illegal (animal cruelty) to keep cats or dogs in a cage for long periods of time, so they would have to be free in the store. It's also highly recommended that you get your cat or dog from a proper breeder, and most pet stores have links to the official cat/dog associations websites where you can find registered breeders.

We do have some rodents, reptiles, spiders, birds and bunnies in pet stores, but for example the fishes live in a large tanks (basic 'gold fish bowls' are illegal, smallest required tank size is 40 litres/8.8 gallons). I wouldn't buy any pet from a pet store, I think it's best to get the animal from a reputable breeder who knows how to take care of the animal in the best possible way, no matter what species is in question.
post #45 of 50
Not buying from pet stores is kind of a triage thing. I.e., a strategy used when you cannot save everyone, so you choose who you save so as to get the highest possible number of rescues.

If you adopt from the pet store, you save one creature at the cost of letting an unspecified number more die (whatever that number is--it could be one in a hundred that dies, or five dies for every one sold; it's still more than zero).

If you adopt from a shelter, you save one creature, period, with no extra cost in lives to bring down the overall number.

Let's say a hundred people get pet-store animals, and let's say the pet store animals all survive. They save a hundred animals from puppy mills and such; but because they gave the irresponsible/abusive breeders their money, there are now twenty animals who have died due to the abusive process of creating those animals.

Now let's say that the same hundred people go to the shelter and get animals there, and let's say they all survive too. Now they have saved 100 animals, total, that will not have to be euthanized at the shelter.

Net total
Pet store: 80 saved.
Shelter: 100 saved.

I know, it's hard to be that pragmatic; but it really does come down to the numbers. Crisis situations, where you can't save everyone, do warrant triage strategies.
post #46 of 50
Actually, if you adopt from a shelter, you free up space and resources for that shelter to save another animal.
post #47 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlyn View Post
Actually, if you adopt from a shelter, you free up space and resources for that shelter to save another animal.
And sometimes, that pet will die if you don't take them home. That's not an adoption strategy, but a fact of it. I adopted Squishy from the shelter where I volunteer, as otherwise he would be euthanized the next morning. Saved his life, and we were able to put a pair of kittens in his place.
post #48 of 50
This discussion is why I stay out of pet stores that sell kittens & puppies. I have only gone to look at kittens once & I didn't sleep well for 2 nights because I wanted to save them, but knew I couldn't. I also know that it perpetuates the cycle. I volunteer from a shelter & I can give you a long list of cats that are a reason to go to a shelter and not a pet store. I agree it is larger than just anyone person, but if we work together as a community the irresponsible people will have no chioce but to listen.
post #49 of 50
I've never bought a dog or cat from a pet store, but my BIL did. He and my sister were looking for a dog. They went to various shelters (my sister even had one picked out) but he was upset that they were asking so many questions. At the pet shop no one asked anything but "Visa or MasterCard". He couldn't understand that the shelter staff wanted to make sure the dog went to a home prepared to take care of him. And that's why the pet shops stay in business - plunking down money is easier to some people than dealing with legitimate questions from shelters.

We have one independent pet store around here that has cats from a local shelter on display. The good thing is the kitties aren't in small cages - the entire upper level of the store is one large cage from one end to another so they can walk around and see what's going on!
post #50 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob'sMom View Post
I've never bought a dog or cat from a pet store, but my BIL did. He and my sister were looking for a dog. They went to various shelters (my sister even had one picked out) but he was upset that they were asking so many questions. At the pet shop no one asked anything but "Visa or MasterCard". He couldn't understand that the shelter staff wanted to make sure the dog went to a home prepared to take care of him. And that's why the pet shops stay in business - plunking down money is easier to some people than dealing with legitimate questions from shelters.

We have one independent pet store around here that has cats from a local shelter on display. The good thing is the kitties aren't in small cages - the entire upper level of the store is one large cage from one end to another so they can walk around and see what's going on!
Yeah.
There IS a need for easy to find, easy accessible, even easy to buy places.

I think someboydy earlier did witnessed about a long search for a kitten to get / buy. Quite.

The procedure of selling cats and dogs in pet-shops could perhaps be OK if it was done properly. Like this cat shop here above. Or PetSmarts cooperating with the shelters and rescue groups: the cats on display only now and then, The rest of the time they being with their fosterers.
Them being intermediaries with breeders, taking a small fee for contacts which results. Etc.

Thus, no mills, etc.

As earlier said: A cat bought from a shelter is de facto 2 saved cats: this bought cat and another who can now be admitted into the shelter.
But a cat bought from a badly managed pet shops - is signal to cheaply produce more cats to sell...

Thus there are two ways to go: Either never ever dont buy from bad pet shops. And or lay demand on them to manage the animals on sale much better, into homelike standards.
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