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NFL reinstates Michael Vick ..... for real???

post #1 of 51
7/28/09 at 5:19am
Thread Starter 
I hate the world sometimes.... I feel sick at this. Its just like when i watch Basketball and i see that raper guy. Even though he was never convicted i cant bring myself to look at him having the time of his life, being successful, doing his dream job when he raped a girl. Now i cant watch Football....

I hate the world sometimes.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/27/mic...ick/index.html
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post #2 of 51
7/28/09 at 5:52am
i dont understand, it only talks about dig fighting either way i wouldnt of rehired him
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post #3 of 51
7/28/09 at 5:53am
I hate him but come on he served his sentence now he should get to have whatever a normal life is to him...
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post #4 of 51
7/28/09 at 5:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by -_aj_- View Post
i dont understand, it only talks about dig fighting either way i wouldnt of rehired him
He will be re instated in 6 weeks now he's on a conditional basis..
I just don't believe in ostracizing criminals from society for life. I think after serving a jail sentence they should return to normal life and shouldn't be denied anything a normal person wouldn't be denied.
I believe this for all criminals. Michael Vick pissed me off for what he did...but he paid for it this is all that matters now. He starts out new, clear of anything.
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post #5 of 51
7/28/09 at 6:02am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
I hate him but come on he served his sentence now he should get to have whatever a normal life is to him...
I am not a full believer in this. Maybe because i come from Canada and our justice system sucks. In my early 20's my life path came across a situation which got me involved with counseling women who had been severely abuse. In particular, one case, was a man who raped and beat more then 15 women all of whom were too afraid to speak out.

Anyway, without getting into details, this man got 2 years. Sure, he did his time, but out of all those women he raped, only 6 went on to have normal lives. These were not screwed up women, they all had great families, were educated, had good jobs, were sound mind... and this man killed them mentally. Most of them are now alcoholics, have not had jobs since then, don't leave the house, one tried to comit suicide.

I don't believe because a "higher power" decided what his punishment should be, that that is the correct punishment. When this man got two years most of the women who talked to me felt as if the judge thought there life was only worth two years.

This really affected me. Dogs are dead, dogs were abused, dogs were torchered... who is some judge to decide how much their life's are worth. In my mind once you kill someone either physically or mentally, i dont care how much time you got...its not enough, because someone is still suffering forever because of that person.
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post #6 of 51
7/28/09 at 6:35am
Quote:
I believe this for all criminals. Michael Vick pissed me off for what he did...but he paid for it this is all that matters now. He starts out new, clear of anything.
So because he served a sentence of 23 months and hasn't been playing football in 2007 that is payment enough for what he did to those dogs?

They removed a dog from his property who had all of her teeth taken out so that they could breed her. They removed another dog who was completely terrified of people and other dogs, he was probably a bait dog. Honestly you should watch Dog Town's "The Michael Vick Dogs".

I feel he should go back to society, but not as a football player. What he did to those dogs was inexcusable. Jail sentence or not, he has NOT paid enough for this and never will. He's never had to fight for his life. His dogs had to fight to stay alive. He has never expirienced such a thing.
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post #7 of 51
7/28/09 at 7:01am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plebayo View Post
I feel he should go back to society, but not as a football player. What he did to those dogs was inexcusable. Jail sentence or not, he has NOT paid enough for this and never will. He's never had to fight for his life. His dogs had to fight to stay alive. He has never experienced such a thing.
Totally my thoughts. I always go on and on. I just don't think anyone can really "pay" for the crimes of hurting another living being. Him being reinstated is like he didn't even do anything, he is now going to live the American Dream...he should never be worthy of that, not after what he did.
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post #8 of 51
7/28/09 at 7:01am
Leonard Little was convicted of DUI manslaughter back in 1998. His blood alcohol level was more than twice the legal limit in Missouri. He's still playing in the NFL.

Vick was conditionally reinstated but that doesn't necissarily mean he'll play, a team has to sign him first, and I can't think of a team who would right now because of the negative PR it would generate. Personally, I can't stand Vick.
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post #9 of 51
7/28/09 at 7:29am
In a truly just society, the respect for life is the essential social feature that transcends all others. The ironic thing is that in most "civilized" societies, it's the judicial mechanisms that are held in higher esteem than life itself. The quest for "consistency" in our judicial system is really just a euphemism for our inability (or unwillingness) to utilize situational context in our decision-making abilities. I see population saturation as an issue here; so much easier to view society as a faceless whole, than as individual, autonomous components.

We've really become a flow-chart society, comprised of a series of "if/then" statements; everything from psychotherapy to our judicial system. We rush to judgment on so many things, perhaps in an attempt to appear knowledgeable? Children in the classroom, everyone rushing to raise their hand first...

In a nutshell: In my perfect world, Vick would burn.
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post #10 of 51
7/28/09 at 7:49am
I think everyone experiences a sort of mental growth, where sooner or later people realize the extent of the damage they've done to someone and it haunts them for the rest of their lives. This sort of internal emotional troubles that come eventually is punishment enough, what goes around comes around and I don't think the court system or any other physical punishment is really effective, it's only there to make society feel better. I don't think it's rehabilitating, it's even potentially worse for the criminals themselves because a lot of times they come out even more vicious and brutal than before. But yea I really believe that people get the punishment that they deserve eventually without the need for society to ostrcize them or even for them to go to jail. Maybe Vick will have a few years of success and maybe he will even die before the moment comes when he really begins to see what he's done. Who knows..but I think it's a cruel and evil act to forbid him from doing the only kind of job he knows how to do because we all hate what he's done.. Those are just my crazy beliefs, one of my friends says I think like a hippie and now that i've put this into writing I can kinda see why lol...

ETA: I feel like I'm not making much sense today...
So I'm going to add: If Vick is not sorry for what he's done, if he doesn't understand the extent of the damage he's caused to a living thing, not allowing him to play football for the NFL isn't going to make a better man out of him. It will actually affect him even more negatively and he will probably begin to hate people even more...This is why I think it's pretty cruel to not allow him to play. Because rather than helping a criminal be rehabilitated, we'd be doing the opposite turning him against society.
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post #11 of 51
7/28/09 at 9:13am
Utopia, do you have any idea on what the details are with dog fighting? It is so gruesome, saying that seems to be describing it lightly, too.

For someone to experience that gruesomeness, on so many levels, to so many animals. (the ones fighting the ones used as bait, the ones used for breeding) has absolutely no respect for life has absolutely no conscious whatsoever.

Our conscious is such a deep part of who we really are, how does someone suddenly grow into a concscious?
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post #12 of 51
7/28/09 at 10:45am
I totally agree with you, Vick paid his dues in jail but for most of us it wasn't enough payment for what he did to those innocent dogs. I know the NY football teams want nothing to do with him and I hope all the rest shun him also. He doesn't deserve to have a nice life, he should suffer as he made the dogs suffer.
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post #13 of 51
7/28/09 at 10:59am
Utopia I'm wondering what you think of OJ Simpson, do you think he deserves to be where he is right now. He was free for years enjoying the good life, do you think that made him a better citizen, I think not. He belongs in jail for what he got away with and now in jail for another reason. Vick should not be out walking free but since he is, the next best think to punish him is that he never gets to play his beloved football again. That won't kill him or torture him or burn him but it will hurt him and he deserves to be hurt.
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post #14 of 51
7/28/09 at 11:18am
I think the issue here is that Vick should not be allowed to resume his role as a 'role model' professional sports star. Along with all the other guys who have been involved in (alleged or proven) shootings, rapings, DUIs, etc. When you sign on with a pro team, you have a responsibility not only to your team, but to the public, to your fans, to kids who look up to you, all that. In my opinion, I don't care what the crime was (i do, but i'm making a different point here), if you're convicted, that should be it, you should be thrown out of the NFL, NBA, MLB, whatever, no discussion.

In a side note, the dog fighting is just sick sick sick. Any team who will take him back is really risking a huge fan backlash. But as my mom said, he's a good player and the NFL knows that and will, sadly, probably just overlook the cruelty he caused.. sad but true. GRRR.
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post #15 of 51
7/28/09 at 11:59am
I think OJ deserves to be in jail because he never paid his sentence in the first place, and it's sad he never will serve time for that to this day...
I think jail sentences are only there to make society feel better in a sense that we can all sleep better at night knowing that whoever did something wrong doesn't go unpunished. OJ never served a sentence for killing his wife and never will. Vick did serve a sentence. I guess some people don't think it's enough..I'm not focusing on that because I don't think I can determine what I feel is right for him to serve.
DarkMavis I honestly feel sorry for anyone who has a football player as a role model. They are entertainers, same with singers and actors- not people to worship...you can be inspired by their art or physical ability but never actually see them as someone to follow...But what can you do, kids still look up to them. I guess you're right in that aspect...
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post #16 of 51
7/28/09 at 12:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
...Vick did serve a sentence...
Not looking to start an argument; I'm just curious, so as to put some of what you've said in better perspective; but is there anything that you consider to be "unforgivable"? That is, in your opinion, could any crime warrant a perpetrator being denied basic liberties - or even life itself - forevermore? And if so, how would it differ from the atrocities committed by Michael Vick?
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post #17 of 51
7/28/09 at 12:38pm
It all depends on how atrocious the act is considered by everyone else. To my mom cursing in front of a child would probably be a crime bad enough to deserve jail time (lol kidding) but to me a lot of the actual crimes shouldn't even be crimes, such as smoking weed...
I think the majority of people really feel that some criminals must pay for their crimes for a lifetime if the crime is vicious enough...so the courts comply because they want to make everyone feel safe, that justice has been done.
I have a problem with that because for the most part I don't think people owe anything to anyone, if they have done harm to me that is irreversable then that is their own problem and I have to deal with it. I do think it's nice to have the courts when the damage is reversable say someone stole something from me. So I think instead of putting rapists, muderers and other violent criminals in jail they should be put in mental hospitals to learn what is wrong with them and to rehabilitate them. And instead of putting thieves in jail they should be forced to work to compensate everyone who they stole from. So no I don't think anyone should be put away forever, maybe put in a mental hospital forever ..I am not saying this will ever happen it's a hypothetic perfect world situation for me. This is probably more than you asked for lol but yea..
But if i'm going with the system we have in place, then I am staying firm against my belief that no one should be punished as soon as they step out of that jail ...
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post #18 of 51
7/28/09 at 12:39pm
I will not go to far on this topic because I will get heated. I don't watch NFL anymore nor NBA because of all the low lifes in there. It makes me sick to see them. I can say right here right now my husband will not turn on a NFL game in this house. We will watch our yearly FL/GA Gator/Bulldog college game and thats it. It royally tick me off that he was reinstated.

But I have a question why do so many people A) think being a pro-player is any kind of normal life. It aint. and B) Why does everybody think that this is the only thing he can do. Is this the only thing he is trianed for forevermore? If he gets hurt tomorrow and can never play ball no more will he go on welfare because he is not trained to do anything else? No he will find another job doing something else.
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post #19 of 51
7/28/09 at 12:53pm
Being a football player is a normal life that he has chosen for himself. Everyone has their own definition of a normal life and it just so happens his job happens to be football player. If I worked hard all my life to be an athlete I would consider that my only skill and choice fo a career. If he gets hurt and can't play ball he would be compensated btw- he will get disability pay according to the law.
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post #20 of 51
7/28/09 at 2:37pm
Utopia you mentioned thiefs, so what about Bernie Madoff who stole billions off people. I think that 150 years was a darn good sentence but I guess you wouldn't think that?? How much time would you have given him....a year maybe...and no he doesn't belong in a mental institution, he knew exactly what he was doing. He got exactly what he deserved, he's lucky they didn't give him a death sentence.
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post #21 of 51
7/28/09 at 2:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
Being a football player is a normal life that he has chosen for himself. Everyone has their own definition of a normal life and it just so happens his job happens to be football player. If I worked hard all my life to be an athlete I would consider that my only skill and choice fo a career. If he gets hurt and can't play ball he would be compensated btw- he will get disability pay according to the law.
Fine, if he still wants to play football more power to him. Pay him $10/hour. That, to me, is a normal life. Ok, I'll even go up to $15/hr.
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post #22 of 51
7/28/09 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaRussa View Post
Utopia you mentioned thiefs, so what about Bernie Madoff who stole billions off people. I think that 150 years was a darn good sentence but I guess you wouldn't think that?? How much time would you have given him....a year maybe...and no he doesn't belong in a mental institution, he knew exactly what he was doing. He got exactly what he deserved, he's lucky they didn't give him a death sentence.
I think thiefs should be made to work the money they make given to everyone they stole from So yea Bernie Madoff should be forced to work while his salary going to everyone else for the rest of his life..


Quote:
Originally Posted by calico2222 View Post
Fine, if he still wants to play football more power to him. Pay him $10/hour. That, to me, is a normal life. Ok, I'll even go up to $15/hr.
Whatever happened to supply and demand laws. He will get paid at whatever the market price for his labor...
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post #23 of 51
7/28/09 at 4:07pm
His labor...really. He does one of these things:

Throw a ball
Catch a ball
or kick a ball
runs the ball 100 yds or les down field.
Sometimes he gets tackled or he tackles someone

Thats worth millions a year? Really?

WTH....Why do you* pay people so much for just playing with a ball or puck? This is something that is beyond me..

*thats a general you not literal
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post #24 of 51
7/28/09 at 7:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
I think thiefs should be made to work the money they make given to everyone they stole from So yea Bernie Madoff should be forced to work while his salary going to everyone else for the rest of his life..
I think Vick should have been subjected to the same conditions he subjected those dogs to. That would teach him why what he did was wrong. He "repented" only because he was caught.

Some people are beyond help. What Vick did was not immature, it was cruel and disgusting. He's an adult, and knew perfectly well what he was doing.
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post #25 of 51
7/29/09 at 4:11am
I have seen the aftermath of dogfighting, both the dogs and the pits, and it is brutal much like the ancient Roman bloodsports. I think anyone that gets involved with it is seriously twisted. Even though I believe in redemption, I am also a realist and know that it very rarely happens with someone this twisted. I also agree that professional athletes are paid an obscene amount but the public appetite for these sports make those huge salaries possible. As much as I hate what he did and I doubt he is a person I would want to know he has paid his debt. Along with prison time he was also bankrupted. He should be allowed to make a living and he made his living playing football. If a team does sign him it won't be a long term multimillion dollar contract. He has been out of football two years, he may not be able to come back no matter how much natural talent he has but if a team is willing to sign him he should be given a chance.
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post #26 of 51
7/29/09 at 5:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
I just don't believe in ostracizing criminals from society for life. I think after serving a jail sentence they should return to normal life and shouldn't be denied anything a normal person wouldn't be denied.
That's the way it should be, but here in GA with evreything availiable to the general public at the click of a mouse there are parolee's arrested for relatively small offenses who will never hold a decent job again.
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post #27 of 51
7/29/09 at 6:03am
So far it looks like no NFL team wants Vick!

He may need to find a foreign team to take him. Not a bad deal. We get him out of the country.
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post #28 of 51
7/29/09 at 6:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bookworm View Post
That's the way it should be, but here in GA with evreything availiable to the general public at the click of a mouse there are parolee's arrested for relatively small offenses who will never hold a decent job again.
Yes!! I have tried and tried to convey this on other threads as well, when it comes to the police force and how many problems there are with the treatment of delinquents both in the jails and on the streets, forcing people to confess to things they haven't even done and offering them a deal because they've once been labeled as "criminal" so it's only common sense for them to have done the crime. So there is no way of escaping that label once it's there no matter what you do. Police will always be after you and you won't be able to hold a job....It's the way it is. And the whole parole system is just CRAP I hate it...It ruins people's lives rather than rehabilitating them. Anyways I was shocked how many people responded to me when I said this before that I should be thankful to have the police and they do just a magnificent job...Lol I am glad there is someone out there who shares my beliefs..And yea with this you can see where I'm coming from when it comes to Vick even though he has done terrible things I am not going to say he should be denied basic rights to have a job that he is well qualified for, and especially a job that requires the type of skill that not everyone has and requires a long process of being recruited, etc.
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post #29 of 51
7/29/09 at 7:16am
Thread Starter 
IMO someone who hurts a living being should never be forgiven. I don’t believe in making someone suffer, but they most certainly should not be living a better life then most folks.

There are different crimes. As I said in my first post, in my early 20’s I volunteered at our courthouse to council women going to trail to testify against their attackers. I have to say, I have never met such a brainless bunch of people in my life (not the women, but when I had free time I would watch the trails for the petty criminals). Everyday I would shake my head at laugh at someone’s total idiocy. Now, I am not one to put people down, I am the type that usually sees the good in people… but I realized at the courthouse, that most criminals are really, really, utterly, foolish.

Then there are the mean ones. The ones that set fire to animals, the ones that rape women and children, the ones that attacked someone enough to make them mentally or physically handicapped, and as someone mentioned, even the ones that steal so much money from someone that that person goes bankrupt… those are the people who should NEVER be forgiven.

Just because a person makes stupid choices in life they should not be punished, you do your time, come out, statistically do another stupid crime, go back to jail, etc….that hurts no one but yourself. Once you hurt someone else, it’s a whole different ball game.

Life is unfair. I read posts here about people going through rough times. People who would give their blood, shelter, tears, and limbs to animals or people so they won’t get hurt or killed. These people get their homes taken away, cars, jobs, and other horrible life problems… why does this guy get to be rich and famous when there are so many better people out there then him? That’s what really pisses me off… its not fair.

I stand by the fact that anyone who does what he did is not normal, 2 years isn’t enough, hell, 5 years wouldn’t be enough. Is it true he killed or tortured 6,000 dogs? I hope he never gets reinstated and I hope his life is never served on a platter for him. He needs to struggle through life like the rest of us, not be treated like a king.
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post #30 of 51
7/29/09 at 7:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaloneysMom View Post
IMO someone who hurts a living being should never be forgiven. I don’t believe in making someone suffer, but they most certainly should not be living a better life then most folks.

There are different crimes. As I said in my first post, in my early 20’s I volunteered at our courthouse to council women going to trail to testify against their attackers. I have to say, I have never met such a brainless bunch of people in my life (not the women, but when I had free time I would watch the trails for the petty criminals). Everyday I would shake my head at laugh at someone’s total idiocy. Now, I am not one to put people down, I am the type that usually sees the good in people… but I realized at the courthouse, that most criminals are really, really, utterly, stupid.

Then there are the mean ones. The ones that set fire to animals, the ones that rape women and children, the ones that attacked someone enough to make them mentally or physically handicapped, and as someone mentioned, even the ones that steal so much money from someone that that person goes bankrupt… those are the people who should NEVER be forgiven.

Just because a person makes stupid choices in life they should not be punished, you do your time, come out, statistically do another stupid crime, go back to jail, etc….that hurts no one but yourself. Once you hurt someone, it’s a whole different ball game.

Life is unfair. I read posts here about people going through rough times. People who would give their blood, shelter, tears, and limbs to animals or people so they won’t get hurt or killed. These people get their homes taken away, cars, jobs, and other horrible life problems… why does this guy get to be rich and famous when there are so many better people out there then him? That’s what really pisses me off… its not fair.

I stand by the fact that anyone who does what he did is not normal, 2 years isn’t enough, hell 5 years wouldn’t be enough. Is it true he killed or tortured 6,000 dogs? I hope he never gets reinstated and I hope his life is never server on a platter for him. He needs to struggle through life like the rest of us, not be treated like a king.
I'm with you on this one. I don't blame the police for doing their job. If someone cannot abide by the laws of our land, end up in jail and get a bad name that follows them forever, tough! As the old Baretta show used to say, if you can't do the time, don't do the crime. IMO some crimes should never, ever be forgiven and especially forgotten. As for the police "harrassing" people with criminal records, I think perhaps they are all too aware and close to the fact that many of those criminals get out of jail and get right back into the bad stuff. In fact, many of them have learned how to hone their craft while in jail/prison so they can practice it more efficiently.
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