TheCatSite.com › Forums › Cat Breeds, Breeding and Showing › Showing and Ethical Breeding › Information on Line Breeding
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Information on Line Breeding

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
Ok, so I learned at the show from the other Sphynx breeder that line breeding is something all breeders do. I was really confused with this as to me, breeding a father to a daughter is inbreeding and normally is frowned upon.

I really need a good source for this information. I did some research earlier but am still confused. I always did wonder why breeders keep certain kittens for their breeding program if they only have one stud.

If anyone wants to provide information or a great reliable source for reading, please let me know

Thanks a bunch!!
post #2 of 23
I believe Father/daughter breeding to be inbreeding and Grandfather/granddaughter breeding to be line breeding but that is just me. I refuse to do any father/daughter matings since I had a horrible experience with it approx. 10 years ago.

I cannot help you with reputable information on this topic but hopefully GK or Nial can.
post #3 of 23
An old horsemens' saying: if it works, it is line breeding and if it doesn't, it is inbreeding. Seems to apply to all domestic animals, however, cats will take closer breeding without genetic oddities than will other species. At any rate, regardless what you are breeding, there are times you must take the risk to set physical type or mental characteristics...sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Keep records as accurately as you can (i suck at record keeping, simply because I can't read my own writing once i get the notes to the computer) and always hope for the best.
post #4 of 23
Thread Starter 
Well, that's just it, if I keep a kitten, then it would be father/daughter or mother/son but it doesn't seem right. I will say though, that my mom used to let her cats inbreed because she was ignorant to the fact that spaying/neutering was available LOL. She now knows better but 30 years ago, it appeared she didn't. The kittens produced were all fine with the odd kinked tail but other than that, that was the only thing visible.

I don't know how comfortable I am breeding father/daughter because it just doesn't seem right to me. I don't know...I am going to do much more research on this and see what I come up with. This sphynx breeder says you can do it and I believe she is currently doing it.
post #5 of 23
Are you trying to become a breeder?
post #6 of 23
I have some sphynx breeders I can ask about it for you.
My Yoshi was inbred and he had to be pts at age 5.
It was mother daughter.
I have always wondered if that is why he had problems.
post #7 of 23
30 years ago, cats were not normally spayed or neutered in the west, and we, here in rural Sasktachewan, were more interested in keeping enough cats around the yard to keep mice out of the grain and feed than in proper genetics. Any female that hunted was allowed kittens, the rest met a sad fate.

That said, I have one left of a litter of two that were brother sister mating. Nice cats, both of them. The tom is left, the female died on me a week ago...she was to be my replacement queen, but something happened, don't know what but suspect something hurt her and she got away to come to the yard to die. At any rate, the remaining 'kitten' is sane but hormonal, and about as nice a tom as you could ask for (and no, he is going to the vet) and the queen was almost too affectionate - was a pocket kitty just like her sire.

BTW, what part of Sask you in? SE here
post #8 of 23
Thread Starter 
carolinalima, yes I am going to become a breeder. My girls are only 8 months old, so we have a few months before the action starts. My boy is only 6 months, and nowhere near wanting to procreate LOL.

sk_pacer, I'm in Martensville, just north of Saskatoon.

Jacky, yes if you ask a sphynx breeder that you know, that'd be great. I just had never heard of breeders breeding like that. But then again, I don't know any breeders that are near here to ask LOL. I know I can't get stud service from anyone as there are not many owners even here in the province. I know I am going to be the only breeder in the province.
post #9 of 23
I wrote my Mentor and I have a few other breeders I can ask with out posting on the sphynx sites.
You know me and Susan both might get a kitten from Jen now.
Jen has been breeding for a long time and I am sure will give good advice.
She taught Diana how to breed and I have talkedto her about breeding in a few years.
post #10 of 23
Susan here is what mentor said.


So your question is about linebreeding? Well there is a lot of controversy about this. I have seen where it was done and it worked wonderfully. But all cats involved were screened and scanned and tested for everything you could think of.

Then I saw someone do it the wrong way, no scanning, no testing and over 80% of the kittens died.

I talk to a lot of breeders about this. You will hear both sides of the debate. I think that you really need to know what you are doing, take every possible precaution and pray hard.

The bad chances are that it will result in a double up on some recessive or nasty health issue type genes.

I don't plan to do it. Jenn doesn't do it. We prefer to keep the cats unrelated as far back as we can, at a minimum of five generations. It is another way to protect our wonderful breed.
post #11 of 23
I wouldn't do father/daughter, you also need to know the ICC (Inbreeding Co-efficient Complete) of the cats involved you don't want to line breed if it's already been done in the line.

If your peds are on PawPeds that can calculate the ICC for you, or Kintracks breeding software also has that function.
post #12 of 23
I agree with the father daughter or mother son cross. I would think a 4X4 cross is really quite enough - 4 common ancestors in 4 generations. That is the ideal most pedigree livestock people strive for, and prefer 4X5 but if the gene pool is small (think cheetahs, rare breeds of anything) you may have no choice but to go close. Just try for as distant as possible - cousins of some sort, great grandsire, great uncle. Current litter here is great uncle/neice and they are the best litter so far, only lost one but I think that one was premature as of the three remaining, one is very small, and a weekish behind in developement.
post #13 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk_pacer View Post
Current litter here is great uncle/neice and they are the best litter so far
Welcome, I see you are new to the site What breed of cats do you have?
post #14 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by missymotus View Post
Welcome, I see you are new to the site What breed of cats do you have?

Just fancy DSH. And fancy some are - current litter, two colour point and white, and one tabby and white that looks like she may have a ringtail. Have one blue point and white tom that I have been mostly using, and a tom with a ringtail that I thought was neutered as we thought he was a crypt. Several months later the other one came down and he has made some nice kittens too. Been trying to get an answer from the American Ringtail people simply because I have had a few ringtailed cats born. but no luck so far...maybe no interest in other people with ringtailed cats?? I don't know. At any rate, I do keep trying for the ringtails as they are very different cats as they are almost dog-like in their devotion to their human, and follow me all over the place in a kitty parade
post #15 of 23
Purebred Cat Breeding (Moore)

http://www.amazon.com/Breeding-Pureb...8798906&sr=1-1

I had this book when I was breeding my Rexes - its a very good book and the info in there will help you out a lot.
post #16 of 23
Thread Starter 
Thank you to everyone for your comments on this issue. I am pretty sure I won't be breeding in the lines because I have 3 females I can breed my Monty to, and when the time comes when I need different blood, I can purchase or trade a kitten with another breeder. I may also retire a breeder and replace it with another. I would most likely do a male. I will never sell any of my retired breeders as they are my pets first and I love them so much I couldn't bear to part with them. If in the future I learn all there is to learn about line breeding and all the testing that is required is complete, then I might try it....until then, NOPE!
post #17 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk_pacer View Post
Just fancy DSH. And fancy some are - current litter, two colour point and white, and one tabby and white that looks like she may have a ringtail. Have one blue point and white tom that I have been mostly using, and a tom with a ringtail that I thought was neutered as we thought he was a crypt. Several months later the other one came down and he has made some nice kittens too. Been trying to get an answer from the American Ringtail people simply because I have had a few ringtailed cats born. but no luck so far...maybe no interest in other people with ringtailed cats?? I don't know. At any rate, I do keep trying for the ringtails as they are very different cats as they are almost dog-like in their devotion to their human, and follow me all over the place in a kitty parade
My Persians & Exotics are very devoted to me and other humans at my house.

Are you breeding Domestics?
post #18 of 23
So far, yes just fancy domestics. I didn't plan on it happening, it just did. I just wanted enough cats to control the rodent population on a farm yard with stored grain, and people LIKED them a lot as they are good mousers, ratters, duck hunters, partridge hunters.......LOL

I dunno, maybe I should start my OWN registry of Saskatchewan PAIL cats!!!

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...06-09_1110.jpg
post #19 of 23
I am sorry, but with millions and millions of domestics being euthanized every year, why are you going to breed them to add to that problem??? Sorry again, but this makes NO sense to me!

ETA: And you intend to sell these kittens?
post #20 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk_pacer View Post
So far, yes just fancy domestics. I didn't plan on it happening, it just did. I just wanted enough cats to control the rodent population on a farm yard with stored grain, and people LIKED them a lot as they are good mousers, ratters, duck hunters, partridge hunters.......LOL

I dunno, maybe I should start my OWN registry of Saskatchewan PAIL cats!!!

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...06-09_1110.jpg
So the only goal with the breeding is to make more domestic cats?
post #21 of 23
By the way, breeding non-pedigree cats, or breeding by a non-professional breeder is against TCS principles, as shown on the rules - see below:
Quote:
2. Please make sure to spay and neuter your cats. Unless you are a professional breeder and your cat is part of a professional breeding program, please educate yourself to the importance of spaying and neutering by the time your cat is 4-6 months old. If you take care of a feral colony, please make sure to do so responsibly by practicing TNR (Trap, Neuter, Release) protocols within the colony. By spaying and neutering, you enhance a cat's quality of life and improve their longterm health. You are also proving your love for cats because in acting as a responsible pet owner/caregiver you are minimizing the problem of cat overpopulation.
http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15184

While we most definitely welcome you and your kitties to the forum, and want you to stick around, many TCS members work directly with the consequences of the type of breeding you want to do, and you won't find much support for your breeding practices in here.
Many of us volunteer in shelters and rescue groups, and see many many kitties being put to sleep because of over population. In the US alone, 6-8 million cats are euthanized per year!
Please. please spay/neuter your kitties - they will be happy, and you will save many cats lives in the long run.
post #22 of 23
AND spayed/neutered barn cats make far better mousers as they don't have to have their mind on breeding and fighting!
post #23 of 23
Please take heed in what the other posters have said, especially Carolinalima. I volunteer at a no-kill cat shelter, and one of the cats has been there 19 years. 19! Due to people either not neutering their cats out of apathy, or deliberately breeding them, more and more cats are bought from ads in the paper or on Craigslist or what-have-you, rather than being adopted. And for every cat that's not adopted from a no-kill shelter, there is less space, and those cats turned in have to be taken to kill shelters, and.. you know what happens from there. Can you imagine how many cats have had to have been turned away from my shelter in the past 19 years because people were irresponsibly breeding rather than neutering and adopting?

Please, please neuter your pets.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Showing and Ethical Breeding
TheCatSite.com › Forums › Cat Breeds, Breeding and Showing › Showing and Ethical Breeding › Information on Line Breeding