Well, He Did it Again! :( (sorry, long)

sandtigress · Jul 22, 2009

Really, his mother is playing a fairly classic game of "Me or the wife" and unfortunately, she's the one who keeps winning. When your husband married you, he started his own family, and you and your children should always come first, then his parents. Yes, she raised him, yes, he should love her, yes, she is important. But he chose you to be his family, and you and any children come first. Unfortunately, mom is used to being first in her son's life, and she will keep testing that relationship to see if she still is.

He might well need some shock tactics to clue him in to how much damage he is doing to your relationship by choosing his mother over you. I don't necessarily advocate a separation without a therapist helping you do it, but something to make his life uncomfortable until he straightens up and puts his priorities in the right order seems to be necessary. You certainly can't keep letting him get away with it with nothing but some nagging and yelling as the only consequence. That's apparently not enough of a deterrant or enough to make him consider your feelings.

Many

and that things get better for you soon.

zorana_dragonky · Jul 22, 2009

I actually just had a thought while reading over the posts that came after mine and I wanted to mention it... Yes, I do think it was immature and extremely rude for your husband to leave you a note (after two days, wow) to tell you about this, but you know what? I actually think it is possibly even MORE immature and rude for his mother, who can't possibly be exactly young anymore, to arrange something like this and never speak to you about it. I guess I will never understand some people, but if she was a mature person, she would know to contact your entire family to say, "Hey, we want to head to Florida, can Husband come with us?"

Even with what has happened/been happening with my marriage (which I guess I don't have now), I can say that while we were an active couple, if my MIL wanted to do something with one or both of us, she didn't just contact him, she contacted both of us.

I think his whole family has some serious problems with communication, courtesy, selfishness, and probably money management.

I just want to wish you luck again.

trillcat · Jul 22, 2009

Originally Posted by Yosemite

That's easy to say when you don't have 35 years invested in a relationship plus all the other things like property, etc., but it isn't that easy in reality.

Apparently something has been working in order for you to be there for 35 years. Either you wait for his mother to die or you sit him down and lay down some ground rules and stick to them.

From what I've read, you "threaten" and get upset/mad, but you don't do anything to change his behaviour, i.e., you still gave him the Visa card. In a way you are enabling him in his behaviour and until you make up your mind to do something other than just talk about it, nothing will change and no advice is going to make any difference to you.

Perhaps you already realize this and just need to vent and know that we feel your pain and that we agree he isn't being fair to you and your daughter.

What is causing his all out spend, I have to ask, you do not have to answer. Gambling? Is it his time to go nuts and just not care? Gambling is a hardcore addiction as any and nothing to take as an, "it will just get better"
you're 35 years into this, is it better?

libby74 · Jul 22, 2009

Wow, you guys are tough! The thing is, as inconsiderate and self-centered as DH can be, I have loved him for 35 years. That's something I can't overlook.

I have an idea of why he caves in to his Mom; when he was a kid, his older brother got all the attention----even to the point of his Mom forgetting his birthday one year! (I believe I mentioned she was ignorant and selfish ) I believe he's still trying, after all these years, to win his Mom's love and approval. The thing is, I know she's proud of him and loves him as much as she's able to. Of course, she still forgets his birthday most years, and didn't even send us an anniversary card the first several years of our marriage.

I know most of you think I was wrong to let him take the credit card and, while it annoyed me (a lot) I expected him to ask for it. I gave it to him for 1 reason: emergencies do occur.

I honestly don't know what to do. I've talked to him several times about these trips, and I always receive assurances that he won't go if he doesn't have the cash. I've told him over and over "go if you can afford it, just don't let me be the last person to know." Why can't he process that
one little bit of information? When his Mom starts her nagging, all he needs to do is say "Let me talk it over with my wife." I know it may sound strange to a lot of people, but that is what truly ticks me off. The icing on the cake this time was letting his Mom convince him that DD wouldn't mind if he went without her. I just had a call from DD---apparently, everyone is still sniping at each other and she's miserable. My heart breaks for her; as for the other three, I'm absolutely tickled.

What is causing his all out spend, I have to ask, you do not have to answer. Gambling? Is it his time to go nuts and just not care?

Nope, he doesn't gamble, doesn't even buy lottery tickets. I think he's trying to recapture some of his childhood when his family went to FL just about every year. My understanding is this---all his parents did was bicker, his brother got anything he wanted, and DH was left to roam the beaches on his own. Why he'd want to relive those memories is beyond me, but he talks about how much his Dad enjoyed those trips. Go figure.

Yes, I do think it was immature and extremely rude for your husband to leave you a note (after two days, wow) to tell you about this, but you know what? I actually think it is possibly even MORE immature and rude for his mother, who can't possibly be exactly young anymore, to arrange something like this and never speak to you about it. I guess I will never understand some people, but if she was a mature person, she would know to contact your entire family to say, "Hey, we want to head to Florida, can Husband come with us?

That's one of the biggest problems I have with this whole mess! It's MIL's total disregard of the fact that I should be the #1 woman in his life, and that DH lets her get away with it.

sandtigress · Jul 22, 2009

Originally Posted by libby74

I know most of you think I was wrong to let him take the credit card and, while it annoyed me (a lot) I expected him to ask for it. I gave it to him for 1 reason: emergencies do occur.

You know, next time if he goes with your daughter, give the card to your daughter. She sounds very responsible - I think she would take an "emergency only" use seriously, don't you think? Then you don't have to worry about what your husband's going to do with it, or what would happen if he was in an emergency and needed it.

Why can't he process that
one little bit of information? When his Mom starts her nagging, all he needs to do is say "Let me talk it over with my wife." I know it may sound strange to a lot of people, but that is what truly ticks me off.

Its funny, isn't it? You tell them that all these things would be okay "if you would just let me know ahead of time" and still somehow that doesn't seem to click. A lot of your husband's problem sounds like he's afraid of what you're going to say (i.e. the not telling you for two days and being sick during that time because he knew he would have to tell you).

Maybe what you can do is sit down with him, lay it out very clearly just like you did with us, and say something like "I'm going to work on not nagging, can you work on talking about things with me and telling me things in advance?" If you get rid of the consequence that he's afraid of, then maybe he would be more willing to tell you about things. I'm not saying, of course, that its wrong that you're mad. I would be too! But maybe being mad in a different way will improve his behavior too.

That's one of the biggest problems I have with this whole mess! It's MIL's total disregard of the fact that I should be the #1 woman in his life, and that DH lets her get away with it.

I think that's a big problem too. Have you very clearly laid this out for him? Sometimes I don't think men understand that their wives should come first, and that that doesn't mean that you hate his mother or don't want him to do things with her, only that you need to be considered because you're his other half, his partner.

trillcat · Jul 22, 2009

Originally Posted by Sandtigress

You know, next time if he goes with your daughter, give the card to your daughter. She sounds very responsible - I think she would take an "emergency only" use seriously, don't you think? Then you don't have to worry about what your husband's going to do with it, or what would happen if he was in an emergency and needed it.

Its funny, isn't it? You tell them that all these things would be okay "if you would just let me know ahead of time" and still somehow that doesn't seem to click. A lot of your husband's problem sounds like he's afraid of what you're going to say (i.e. the not telling you for two days and being sick during that time because he knew he would have to tell you).

.

Like a child doing wrong.
Im sorry, 35 years of marriage and this man has still not grown up?

libby74 · Jul 23, 2009

Just to show you what sort of nutty in-laws I have: DD called this afternoon and we had a good visit (she has seriously been my touch-stone the last few days). Then she says, "Grandma said Uncle Mike (DH's older brother) called you Sunday night and you hung up on him." I assured her the only phone calls I had Sunday were from her, which is true. Granted, I thoroughly dislike my BIL and think he is basically a waste of flesh, but I'm not rude enough to hang up on someone like that. (altho DH hung up on him once when he called and said he was going to kill DH; did I mention they're a lovely family?)
So, I'm assuming BIL dialed the wrong number and someone did hang up on him. MIL also mentioned to DD that "your Mom is probably p.o.'d at me for making your Dad come to Florida." DD, bless her, replied, "You think?"

DD put her Dad on the phone, and he was pleasant as could be. I was somewhat curt. When he asked, "Is something wrong?" I actually laughed and said, "Are you kidding?. I'm very proud of myself; told him I wasn't going to get into it over the phone, that it could wait until he got back.

Apparently there's still a lot of sniping going on between DH and Mil and stepDad (who accused DH of trying to make the gas tank blow up by letting the gas get too low

Of course, MIL had said they would buy all the gas, so I'm a tad confused. ) For the life of me, I can't figure out why DH puts himself thru this.

I've basically decided there's no point in making myself miserable while they're gone. I'm actually going to let DH enjoy himself as much as he can, considering all the back-biting that seems to be going on. Of course, when he gets back---that's going to be a whole new different story.

ut0pia · Jul 23, 2009

Originally Posted by libby74

Last spring I posted a question, asking if I was being unreasonable about DH's repeated vacation trips to Florida with his Mom and step-Dad. I hate to travel, so have no desire to go and wouldn't go with his folks if you paid me. He and DD have gone with them in 2001, '02, '04, and '06. I flat out told him there wouldn't be anymore trips unless he had the cash to pay for them. DD had a talk with her Dad this spring about vacation; she was going to sign up for a few summer classes at our community college, so there wasn't going to be a trip to Florida this year.
Fast forward to July 5th. DH goes to work and leaves a note for me saying, "I told Mom yes, I'll go." I had no idea what he meant, so when I went to have lunch with him I asked him about it. Apparently, his Mom had been on him for weeks about driving them to Florida again and he'd finally "caved in"

on July 3rd. Then it took him 2 days to tell me about it, and he didn't even tell me to my face! I asked him if he had enough to pay for it; he said yes, and that his folks would take their car, pay for the gas, and for the rooms. I said, "What about R? (DD) She's not out of school yet." He told me she wasn't going, that his Mom was taking her other son instead. I asked if DD knew she wasn't invited? Well, no, he hadn't told her yet.
To say I was livid is putting it mildly. I've told DH for years---I don't care if you go as long as you have the cash; just don't let me be the last to know what's going on. Then, to decide to take this trip without our daughter!? I immediately got hold of her and asked how hard it would be for her to finish her college classes so she could go. To say she was upset is an understatement. She couldn't believe her Dad would plan a trip that didn't include her. I believe she was just as mad as I was. When she got off work that night she actually stopped by her grandmother's house and gave her hell! By the time she got home she was so mad she was literally shaking!
She managed to work things out with her teachers, knuckled down and finished 7 math chapters and took 3 tests in less than 2 weeks. Of all the players in this stupid little drama, DD is the only one that showed any maturity. I was extremely proud of her.
Fast forward again, this time to July 19th. I've packed everything, made sure both DH & DD were set for 2 weeks away from home. His folks pull up outside, DH hugs me then says, "Can I have the credit card just in case?" If looks could kill, he wouldn't be in Florida right now. Did I give it to him? Yes. Am I totally ticked off? You betcha. Then he rushed out the door so quickly he didn't even say goodbye. And as a final insult, he took all the spending money that was supposed to last me for another week!

I always have some extra cash stashed around the house, but geez, he could have told me!
I honestly don't know if I'm more angry or hurt by ths whole mess. One minute I'm crying and the next minute I could just slap DH's face. I mentioned DD was the only one that was showing any maturity. She calls me a couple of time a day to make sure I'm ok; she told me that one day she actually took her Dad's wallet away from him to stop him from blowing any more money than he already had! That's my girl! Plus, today is her 20th birthday and it's another birthday that I've missed.
I really don't know what I expect anyone to tell me. I know DH is being selfish and inconsiderate. I'm so mad at his Mom for putting all this in motion that I can't stand it. I honestly think I just needed to vent to people who aren't involved in the situation. I'm afraid, tho, that I've lost a whole lot of respect for DH at this point. I can't believe he'd think it was ok to go off and leave DD behind. From what DD has said over the past few days, everyone has been sniping at each other, and you know what? I'm glad to hear it.

If I was in your place: I wouldn't have any issues with giving him the card. I don't see why he shouldn't have access to a card if it's under his name unless he has a shopping addiction or something. However, if he spends money that you have asked him not to spend, I'd separate all the funds and split the bills and not have joint accounts with him ever again. That's just how I'd do it...

libby74 · Jul 23, 2009

If I was in your place: I wouldn't have any issues with giving him the card. I don't see why he shouldn't have access to a card if it's under his name unless he has a shopping addiction or something. However, if he spends money that you have asked him not to spend, I'd separate all the funds and split the bills and not have joint accounts with him ever again. That's just how I'd do it...

I don't know if it's an 'addiction' exactly, but it seems as if he can't stop buying those little metal tack-pins (I think that's what they're called) DD told me her Dad had gone into a pin store on Tuesday and spent $150 on pins. When they got outside the store, he turned around to go back in and buy more! That's when she took his wallet away from him.

He will come home with dozens and dozens of those things. He clips them on lanyards and hangs them on the wall. I absolutely don't get it.
He definitely has a problem with knowing when to stop.

addiebee · Jul 23, 2009

Originally Posted by libby74

Wow, you guys are tough! The thing is, as inconsiderate and self-centered as DH can be, I have loved him for 35 years. That's something I can't overlook.

I have an idea of why he caves in to his Mom; when he was a kid, his older brother got all the attention----even to the point of his Mom forgetting his birthday one year! (I believe I mentioned she was ignorant and selfish ) I believe he's still trying, after all these years, to win his Mom's love and approval. The thing is, I know she's proud of him and loves him as much as she's able to. Of course, she still forgets his birthday most years, and didn't even send us an anniversary card the first several years of our marriage.

I know most of you think I was wrong to let him take the credit card and, while it annoyed me (a lot) I expected him to ask for it. I gave it to him for 1 reason: emergencies do occur.

I honestly don't know what to do. I've talked to him several times about these trips, and I always receive assurances that he won't go if he doesn't have the cash. I've told him over and over "go if you can afford it, just don't let me be the last person to know." Why can't he process that
one little bit of information? When his Mom starts her nagging, all he needs to do is say "Let me talk it over with my wife." I know it may sound strange to a lot of people, but that is what truly ticks me off. The icing on the cake this time was letting his Mom convince him that DD wouldn't mind if he went without her. I just had a call from DD---apparently, everyone is still sniping at each other and she's miserable. My heart breaks for her; as for the other three, I'm absolutely tickled.

Nope, he doesn't gamble, doesn't even buy lottery tickets. I think he's trying to recapture some of his childhood when his family went to FL just about every year. My understanding is this---all his parents did was bicker, his brother got anything he wanted, and DH was left to roam the beaches on his own. Why he'd want to relive those memories is beyond me, but he talks about how much his Dad enjoyed those trips. Go figure.

That's one of the biggest problems I have with this whole mess! It's MIL's total disregard of the fact that I should be the #1 woman in his life, and that DH lets her get away with it.

Wow .. sounds like the whole lot needs deeeeeep therapy!

carolina · Jul 23, 2009

Originally Posted by Yosemite

You're a better woman than I am. I would never have given him the credit card and would probably have asked the bank to not allow any debit transactions on his debit card if he had one. If his mother is so adamant that he go with her, let her pay his expenses.

His actions show a total lack of respect, love or appreciation of you or your daughter. Getting angry doesn't hurt anyone but you. He's still on vacation and blowing money so isn't particularly worried about you being upset IMO.

I certainly don't advocate leaving him, but I would rethink what kind of future and old age we would have together and honestly, at the age of 62, I don't want or need that kind of stress in my life and I would be on my own.

- except for the third paragraph... His luggage with all his stuff would sitting at his parents footsteps upon his return, and the paperwork for the divorce ready to go. Enough is enough - life REALLY is too short to be with someone that doesn't deserve you! Well... IMO only...
Anyway, be strong, and stick to your beliefs.

libby74 · Jul 24, 2009

Enough is enough - life REALLY is too short to be with someone that doesn't deserve you! Well... IMO only...

I've come to that conclusion. The way I see it there are 2 options for DH: either he decides, and proves, that I really am the most important person in his life and he treats me that way or he leaves his luggage in his folks' car when they get back and just keeps on going.
I've always been the giver, the emotional backbone of our family; I routinely call him "love of my life" because I believe he is. I know he had a distant relationship with his parents, but mine wasn't a bed of roses, either. The difference is, I grew up and got over it. I deserve better than this.

Not to rag on him (oh, heck, why not?)--when hid Dad died I was there for him every step of the way. When he wanted to go for a car ride at midnight to talk about his Dad, I went. I supported him completely.
When my Dad, who I loved dearly, died 3 years later I didn't even get a hug from DH. He is totally unavailable emotionally, and just seems to get worse as time goes on.

rosiemac · Jul 24, 2009

Originally Posted by libby74

DD told me her Dad had gone into a pin store on Tuesday and spent $150 on pins.

How much?!

What are these pins?

Are you sure he hasn't got an addiction?

libby74 · Jul 24, 2009

How much?! What are these pins?

These pins usually are made of metal with a cloissone (sp?) finish, and are about the size of a 50 cent piece. People wear them on their hats, for the most part. They actually remind me of super-sized pierced earrings (the post kind). I would imagine DH has 100s of the stupid things, and I know they cost at least $6-$8 each, and that's not for "limited edition" or sets.
I'm pretty sure I could get them on ebay for a whole lot less. Why a grown man needs all these trinkets is beyond me.

yosemite · Jul 24, 2009

Originally Posted by libby74

These pins usually are made of metal with a cloissone (sp?) finish, and are about the size of a 50 cent piece. People wear them on their hats, for the most part. They actually remind me of super-sized pierced earrings (the post kind). I would imagine DH has 100s of the stupid things, and I know they cost at least $6-$8 each, and that's not for "limited edition" or sets.
I'm pretty sure I could get them on ebay for a whole lot less. Why a grown man needs all these trinkets is beyond me.

I'm no psychologist, but perhaps the purchase of these trinkets is the only area your DH feels he has any control. His mother controls his vacation, you control the purse strings and as you say yourself you have been the backbone of the family, so this is the only area where he feels he has a "say". I do feel he could use some counselling because you are a person too and should be treated better than you are being treated.

Unless you "fix" this now, it isn't going to get any better. Fixing it may include counselling for him, and maybe even couples counselling and/or a parting of ways. After 35 years you deserve better than this and if he can't see that, then there is no hope for this man.

ut0pia · Jul 24, 2009

I feel for you because you said you really love this guy. There is little you can do to make yourself happy when someone you love and can't just walk away from does things that drive you crazy

Well, He Did it Again! :( (sorry, long)

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