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2 out of 7 kittens left.... what's going wrong???

post #1 of 40
7/14/09 at 11:49am
Thread Starter 
hi...
a friend of mine's cat disappeared leaving behind 7 kittens.
so far 5 have died from an illness that the vet is unable to label.

the first one to succumb was the smallest then one by one they died. some were on a drip at the vet and some were in the process of being treated at home and didn't make it.

the only symptom is diarrhea.
the vet has been treating them with a broad spectrum anti bio and they have been wormed....

they were without the mum from about 2 weeks...
right now i have the remaining two they are asleep in my make shift kitten sling inside my shirt....

the larger one is eating well but the smaller one's appetite is really not very good and it is very very very thin. i can feel all it's ribs....

apparently they go down hill very quickly with excessive peeing and pooing and loud wailing .... and then game over.

the vet has tested for parasites but he did not find any under the microscope....
what could it be?
i'm going to try ad get him to do an fip test tomorrow....
the mother was a house cat and so was the father....but... i am not sure they have an accurate track of her vaccination records etc....

i think that the vet is competent, he is quite well known for being good with animals etc so i don't think that he has been negligent... i just want to make sure i cover all the bases with questions tomorrow when i see him.
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post #2 of 40
7/14/09 at 1:52pm
Coccidia and tritrichomonas foetus are two good bets. These are intestinal parasites that are very hard to track down, but not that hard to treat. The second one is probably the likeliest.

There IS something called fading kitten syndrome, but there are good odds it's actually caused by one of the above.
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post #3 of 40
7/14/09 at 5:07pm
Don't waste your money on a FIP test. It only tests for exposure to the Corona virus and most cats will test positive for this. Did the vet test for panleukopenia?

Sending vibes for the little ones.
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post #4 of 40
7/14/09 at 6:38pm
Could be incompatable blood type of the parents/kittens. I never knew about that till Devon breeders brought it to light. If mom is a B and the kittens are an A, then the kittens can be poisoned by the mom when nursing.

I'm guessing that also could be part of the problem in fading kitten syndrome. Kittens are so fragile during those first few months. That is why people have a lot of health problems in taking kittens away from mom before 3 months old.
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post #5 of 40
7/15/09 at 5:05am
Panleukopenia( is my number one guess),Giardia, congenital defects, GI infection. Trust me, Ive been there. I had six kittens I was hand raising now I have three. Good luck, these poor little beings are so fragile.
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post #6 of 40
7/15/09 at 5:59am
Thread Starter 
okay heres the update

took them to the vet this morning and he said they look allright but did not want to draw blood as they are so young....

they are both pooping solids, and that sort of long cylinder that has lots of shape but doesn't look like adult poop yet.... the only thing is that the last bit or so is still soft....

they are both on ad prescription diet
and they both sleep a lot....
is that normal?
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post #7 of 40
7/15/09 at 7:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zazi View Post
they are both pooping solids, and that sort of long cylinder that has lots of shape but doesn't look like adult poop yet.... the only thing is that the last bit or so is still soft....

and they both sleep a lot....
is that normal?
Sounds promising that their poop is firming up.

What do you mean by sleep a lot? Kittens in the middle of growth spurts often sleep for longer periods of time during the day - growing is hard work on a body.
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post #8 of 40
7/15/09 at 7:52pm
Thread Starter 
well i don't think the previous carers got the formula right.... at about 150gms each they should have been getting about half a can of formula a day... they were only getting half of what their daily requirement was....

about 24hours after i changed the water to food ratio they are really bright and active when i wake them up... very eager to eat(touch wood) especially the little one who was very lethargic the first 24hours....

ANYWAY, i was just worried that they were not active enough only coz the previous carers said they were really active... i can't help but think that they were searching for more food.... because over here, as soon as they get a belly full they go for a poop or a pee and then i give them a good rub all over with my fingers and nose, they explore for about 5 minutes and then they curl up and go back to sleep.....

so that IS normal then.... which is what i thought as i can't remember any of my young kittens being active for more than a half hour before going back to sleep....
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post #9 of 40
7/15/09 at 8:00pm
I just reread your original post and didn't see how old they are. They were without their mother for 2 weeks before coming to you. How old are they now?

With my orphaned litters, it was not unusually for them to fall asleep quickly after a meal while they were very young, but the older they got, the more active they were following a meal. So if they are about 4 weeks or older, then I would say that 5 minutes is a short time to be active after eating. But if they've been fighting an illness, then it might be that they are still healing. If your vet has seen them, then I suggest a call to their office and raise that question to them. They would understand what best to expect with their health condition.
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post #10 of 40
7/15/09 at 9:03pm
Thread Starter 
they are still on 12 hourly antibios....
i don't think it is exactly 5 minutes.... it's more like 10 and then about 20 minutes till they actually fall asleep but there's a whole lot of me grooming them and them purring before they actually get to sleep for real..... however i am not encouraging play at the moment as i think that what they need most is rest at least till they are a little heavier.... they were without mum from about 2 weeks....
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post #11 of 40
7/15/09 at 9:44pm
How old are they? Because newborns don't do much of anything but eat and sleep, but at 3/4wks they should begin playing. Keep in mind that they are sick, medicated, and probably feel bad which may be why they are sleeping so much.

Make sure you keep them very warm:
Quote:
The ideal temperature within the {kitten} box should be:

Birth to 3 weeks: 85-88oF (30-31oC)
Over 3 weeks: approx. 79oF (26oC)
From here: http://www.kitten-rescue.com/cold_kitten.html

That is a great website for anyone with any age kitten.

Also, you probably already know this but make sure their formula is luke warm, test it on your wrist before feeding them.

These are always important, but when they are sick these things become much more important.
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post #12 of 40
7/15/09 at 10:17pm
Thread Starter 
temperature wise i'm in the tropics and its always about 29 degrees here.... right now indoors it is exactly 29 degrees which is about 266f and in their nest the ambient temperature of the bedding is 31 degrees so i imagine they themselves are a few degrees warmer than that... there no wind in the spot they are in so the temperature is pretty stable....
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post #13 of 40
7/16/09 at 1:22am
Sounds great then.

About how old are they?
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post #14 of 40
7/16/09 at 1:46am
Thread Starter 
i am pretty sure that they are just starting their fourth week....
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post #15 of 40
7/16/09 at 5:14am
I wouldn't be too concerned about them sleeping then, they are pretty sick, and you said one is very thin... Are they only on antibiotic or are the on some other things? Did they get any shots at the vet?

Their poo sounds pretty normal. Might want to try vitamins too, you could get some at the vet or store, one I like is NutiCal and it is a gel, if they wont take it by mouth you just rub it on their paws and they will wash it off. Any vitamin supplement may help them gain weight. I have a great cat health book where a holistic vet says he ups the vitamin intake of sick cats, don't remember his logic behind it though.
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post #16 of 40
7/16/09 at 5:35am
Thread Starter 
hi... yes i do have some felovite with taurine... i have add a bit to one meal a day... in the 48 hours i have had them i can actually feel the difference that the food is making... the thin ones ribs are harder to feel through his fur... his name is guiness and the girl is bailey

i also am swapping between the ad diet and a addiction wet food... glad the poop sounds normal the consistency changes and i think it is depending on how much water is in the food mixture....

i really wish there were some accurate detailed sites on kitten feeding and care...
what i have found so far is so vague....
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post #17 of 40
7/16/09 at 5:50am
Aw Guiness & Bailey Those are nice names. Glad to hear they are fattening up!

This is really the best kitten site I have come across, very detailed:
http://www.kitten-rescue.com/

If switching the foods is working don't change what you are currently doing, but usually if you don't switch food gradually it can cause tummy issues. If ingredients are similar, then it should be alright.
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post #18 of 40
7/16/09 at 6:11am
Thread Starter 
i completely forgot about the gradual bit... will watch for any reactions...
they are both low allergy diets ...

i just re-read the first page on kitten-rescue and they are drastically underweight for their age....
At age 4 weeks weight should be approx. 13 ounces.

they are not even 200gms!!

having said that the cats in asia are a bit smaller ... but still.............
going to weigh them again right now...
brb

well i just weighed themand i think that they must have gained quite a bit in fluids now that they are properly hydrated...
guiness is 198gms...
bailey is 190gms....

yesterday guiness was 145gms... and bayley was 168gms....
they're both carrying about 12ml of food

whopee!

with SUCH a difference in the weights i wonder if they are not younger....
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post #19 of 40
7/16/09 at 1:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zazi View Post
with SUCH a difference in the weights i wonder if they are not younger....
It makes sense for them to be underweight when they were so underfed for a while, though.
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post #20 of 40
7/16/09 at 9:40pm
They did have diarrhea for a while too, that might have made them lose weight also.

They could be younger than you think too, here are some sites to help you figure out what age they could be:
http://www.cat-world.com.au/HowToDet...KittensAge.htm

http://www.kittenbaby.com/age.php

http://www.rescueguide.com/orphkits.html



Here is a breeders site, there are pics of kittens from just born-5 weeks, you might be able to guess their age by this:
http://www.avantibengals.com/pastlitters.htm
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post #21 of 40
7/16/09 at 9:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zazi View Post
i don't think it is exactly 5 minutes.... it's more like 10 and then about 20 minutes till they actually fall asleep but there's a whole lot of me grooming them and them purring before they actually get to sleep for real..... however i am not encouraging play at the moment as i think that what they need most is rest at least till they are a little heavier.... they were without mum from about 2 weeks....
And this sounds more normal.
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post #22 of 40
7/17/09 at 1:59am
Didn't see that, yes, that is way normal.
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post #23 of 40
7/17/09 at 3:01am
Thread Starter 
urgh........
things are slipping
the littl one has lost his appetite and the runs have come back....
going to vet now, update later.
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post #24 of 40
7/17/09 at 3:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zazi View Post
urgh........
things are slipping
the littl one has lost his appetite and the runs have come back....
going to vet now, update later.
Oh no!
Got into this thread late, but many
For you and the little one.
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post #25 of 40
7/17/09 at 5:59am
Thread Starter 
ookay- just got back from the vet.
now i decided to get a second opinion from my own vet so i took them there....
i just was not getting enough info from the previous owners vet
anyway, they are now on two antibios...

and he took a blood sample and it IS a virus and they are still being treatde for giardia.... he thinks that they are 3 weeks old... i am just going to think they are somewhere between 3 and 4... no one can give me a conclusive answer.

anyway, the diarrhea came back with the bailey... and guiness has been lethargic all day....
he did however say that i might be overfeeding them but i was going by the fact that they were 4-5 weeks old... anyway.... that's fine.... at least if they don't eat a lot i won't panic....

NOW the interesting development is that he thinks that what is happening is happening because their immune systems are compromise most possibly by FELV. so he said that they can either way but we'll try our best anyway.

am now cutting back on the food .... and adding felovite to the food again...

good vibes please...
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post #26 of 40
7/17/09 at 11:58am
Thread Starter 
did the last feed for the night...
not sure if it's the fact that they had a not so large feed about 4 hours ago...but they just tore through 15ml each.... it could be the new antibiotic that they are on.... hope its making them feel better.... they even had two wrestling matches.... i put them back in their bed with two hot water bottles underneath it so it's nice and snug...

hope things are stable in the morning...
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post #27 of 40
7/17/09 at 12:02pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KatKisses View Post
They did have diarrhea for a while too, that might have made them lose weight also.

They could be younger than you think too, here are some sites to help you figure out what age they could be:
http://www.cat-world.com.au/HowToDet...KittensAge.htm

http://www.kittenbaby.com/age.php

http://www.rescueguide.com/orphkits.html



Here is a breeders site, there are pics of kittens from just born-5 weeks, you might be able to guess their age by this:
http://www.avantibengals.com/pastlitters.htm
just checked out the avanti site...
from those pictures i'd say they are 3 weeks old too...or somewhere between 3 and four but no way are they more than four... they're still all wobbly when they walk....
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post #28 of 40
7/17/09 at 1:00pm
prayers for the babies, and for you - what a wonderful heart you have to take care of these little guys.
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post #29 of 40
7/17/09 at 10:51pm
Thread Starter 
GUiness has not gone for a pee since this morning... is that anything to worry about?
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post #30 of 40
7/18/09 at 8:32am
Are you still stimulating them to eliminate? For all the orphans that Ive raised, I've always gotten them to pee within 10 minutes of their feeding. If I got a good stream, then they didn't always go again until next feeding. When's the last time you fed them?

Sending major vibes for these little guys!!
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