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A healthy diet: are doctors and scientists right about this?

post #1 of 30
7/11/09 at 8:34pm
Thread Starter 
I've been reading some extremely enlightening articles lately that made me so confused and shocked- about diet. Apparently, a low fat diet could be the source of all of our troubles regarding weight. Eating cholesterol and having a high cholesterol level in your blood might not be all that correlated as doctors try to stress.

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In the intervening years, the N.I.H. spent several hundred million dollars trying to demonstrate a connection between eating fat and getting heart disease and, despite what we might think, it failed. Five major studies revealed no such link. A sixth, however, costing well over $100 million alone, concluded that reducing cholesterol by drug therapy could prevent heart disease. The N.I.H. administrators then made a leap of faith. Basil Rifkind, who oversaw the relevant trials for the N.I.H., described their logic this way: they had failed to demonstrate at great expense that eating less fat had any health benefits. But if a cholesterol-lowering drug could prevent heart attacks, then a low-fat, cholesterol-lowering diet should do the same. ''It's an imperfect world,'' Rifkind told me. ''The data that would be definitive is ungettable, so you do your best with what is available.''
And it all goes back to funding: the ones who fund these projects are the ones who are trying to push for their products to sell, it's all about grains and Monsanto again. And of course, they will do everything possible to establish a fact that could secure their profits.
It is so shocking that apparently the American Medical Association could be so totally wrong about heart disease, cholesterol levels..
The only thing they know for sure is that eating fast food does lead to an increased risk in heart disease. However, it has never been tested whether eating a high percentage of animal fat, not hydrogenated fat like the type that is found in fast food, and a low percentage of carbs in your diet is actually healthy. I am starting to believe that the above is the type of diet that humans have evolved to thrive on. The main important thing is not to eat a diet too high in protein because too much protein can lead to certain liver problems. The reason why a study has not been done on this:

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To study the entire physiological system involves feeding real food to real human subjects for months or years on end, which is prohibitively expensive, ethically questionable (if you're trying to measure the effects of foods that might cause heart disease) and virtually impossible to do in any kind of rigorously controlled scientific manner.
The quotes are from this article:
What if it's all been a big fat lie
It's old but not much has changed. If you go on pubmed or a medical site you will not find any studies...

This is extremely interesting to me. I studied biology the first 2 years of my college life, but at the moment one of my fields is sociology of science (the other history as I've said before), and the main question we try to explore is what is good science vs. bad science, and how can we differentiate the two. Well- it's not what it seems most of the time, and in most cases it's all about funding, who gets to ask what question . And the ones who ask the question usually get the results they are looking for. In the 18th century, there was a study called craniology that had scientifically proven and established a fact that whites are superior to all other races because they have a wider skull. It was bogus of course but everyone believed it at the time. So it's not impossible for them to be wrong this time- I'm just trying to illustrate that with this example.I think there is a pretty big chance that they are wrong..

Oh and guess what: my parents are close to 50 and they just had to go and get their cholesterol checked and their health insurance company will determine whether they will raise their premiums depending on the risk factor of heart disease that they calculate..
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post #2 of 30
7/11/09 at 9:27pm
I have known this for decades ...lol.. gave my nutritional science profs a run for some FACTS ...

In about 1900 people ate 40% fat 90% was saturated , shockingly even when you add in our diagnostics the heart disease rate is FAR FAR higher than it was then...
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post #3 of 30
7/11/09 at 11:12pm
I just quit smoking and please don't flame me cause I am not in the mood right now. I am going to my Dr to get appetite suppressants to help me with the weight gain I have got since I quit smoking.

I just need a little nudge in the right direction. I have always been A very thin person and things are catching up to me and this quitting smoking has taken my body into a craziness. grr I am so messed up in this trying to get healthy stuff and I am truning into a fat lady, and I want to cry
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post #4 of 30
7/12/09 at 12:10pm
Ah, the best eating advice I ever heard was "Eat real food. Not too much." I honestly don't pay any attention to fat levels, etc. and in fact I eat a ridiculous amount of cheese. Yum. I do think that eating a lot of highly processed foods is a bad idea. It just can't be good for you.
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post #5 of 30
7/13/09 at 5:46am
I try to keep processed food to a bare minimum and only eat fast food maybe 3 or 4 times a year. I grew up on a farm and I didn't know anyone while growing up that had a heart attack or stroke. We ate a typical diet for the time, I am 53, for a farm family. It was higher in fat than what has been considered healthy but there was no processed food. Everything was cooked from scratch. I use a crockpot a lot to cook from scratch. I cook large amounts and then freeze portions. Since I've started doing that I have lost my taste for fast food and processed food.
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post #6 of 30
7/13/09 at 6:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willowy View Post
Ah, the best eating advice I ever heard was "Eat real food. Not too much." I honestly don't pay any attention to fat levels, etc. and in fact I eat a ridiculous amount of cheese. Yum. I do think that eating a lot of highly processed foods is a bad idea. It just can't be good for you.
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Originally Posted by Denice View Post
I try to keep processed food to a bare minimum and only eat fast food maybe 3 or 4 times a year. I grew up on a farm and I didn't know anyone while growing up that had a heart attack or stroke. We ate a typical diet for the time, I am 53, for a farm family. It was higher in fat than what has been considered healthy but there was no processed food. Everything was cooked from scratch. I use a crockpot a lot to cook from scratch. I cook large amounts and then freeze portions. Since I've started doing that I have lost my taste for fast food and processed food.
I agree entirely with you both. It is interesting how when you are used to real, good food, the processed and fast foods taste horrible.

We certainly didn't have many overweight people nor did we have people getting sick and the pie crusts were made from lard, we cooked the skin on the pork roasts and at that which was pretty much all fat underneath that wonderful crackling, ate lots of butter and drank whole, unpasteurized milk, and the list goes on. We ate a good variety of foods including lots of veggies but everything was made from scratch for the cooking and the veggies were home grown.

I honestly think the many health issues we see today, i.e., high cholesterol, more diabetes, etc., are from folks not eating properly and eating too many processed, over-processed and non-nutritional foods.
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post #7 of 30
7/13/09 at 10:15am
My father has two entirely blocked arterties the docs say happen due to cholesterol.

HIs cholesterol reading has never been over 170. He says those tests are crap. I'm tending to agree with him.
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post #8 of 30
7/13/09 at 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post



I honestly think the many health issues we see today, i.e., high cholesterol, more diabetes, etc., are from folks not eating properly and eating too many processed, over-processed and non-nutritional foods.
I agree totally but the government will NEVER admit it. I also believe it is the cause of the rising cancer rates.
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post #9 of 30
7/13/09 at 10:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
I honestly think the many health issues we see today, i.e., high cholesterol, more diabetes, etc., are from folks not eating properly and eating too many processed, over-processed and non-nutritional foods.
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Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
. I also believe it is the cause of the rising cancer rates.
I agree!. When i was younger the word cancer was hardly mentioned?!. Plus you never saw any overweight children. I know as a child i was fed fresh meat and vegetables, nothing processed.

Linda you've brought back so many memories with the pastry made with lard and the pork crackling because i remember my mum doing the crackling on a sunday for lunch
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post #10 of 30
7/13/09 at 11:15am
I used to fry potatoes in bacon grease. Yummy
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post #11 of 30
7/13/09 at 11:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
I used to fry potatoes in bacon grease. Yummy
I still do. I also like to fry my egg in bacon grease.

When I cook a steak (in the frying pan of course so I don't lose all those yummy juices), I cook it in butter, deglaze the pan with a little bit of water, then soak a piece of bread in the gravy, put a bit of salt on it and devour it.
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post #12 of 30
7/13/09 at 11:44am
After a roast beef joint was cooked, my mum used to give me what we called a "dip", which was a slice of bread dipped in the beef juices. Oh i can still taste it to this day!!
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post #13 of 30
7/13/09 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosiemac View Post
After a roast beef joint was cooked, my mum used to give me what we called a "dip", which was a slice of bread dipped in the beef juices. Oh i can still taste it to this day!!
I'm getting so hungry!
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post #14 of 30
7/13/09 at 12:26pm
Thread Starter 
According to what i've been reading about diet lately, cooking in animal fat is healthier because if vegetable oil is exposed to heat it becomes oxygenated. If eating a salad then it's okay to eat a vegetable oil.
My great grandfather who was 98 when he died a few years ago always cooked with animal fat and kept lard around the house and used it for cooking whatever he liked to cook lol. He became sick and died in about a month but before that month he was totally healthy and used to take long hikes regularly antil he was 98. We always thought he was an anomaly based on what medicine is teaching these days and looking at the food pyramid thats everywhere in health guidelines. I am changing the way I'm eating btu it's so hard because all those high salt high sugar snacks are so addictive. I never eat fast food or buy much frozen food now anyway, but I eat snacks such as chips and salty cheesy crackers all the time.
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post #15 of 30
7/13/09 at 1:55pm
I won't say I use no processed foods, but I'd better be able to pronounce everything on the ingredients list, have most of it on hand regularly, and see sugar and salt fairly far down the list, and the word "hydrogenated" nowhere. At that point, if it's tasty, provides convenience, and doesn't cost the earth, it's welcome. Such products are becoming easier to find, but I don't go looking for them because, basically, we eat fresh foods prepared from scratch. I use butter and cream and cheese, and when I'm doing a roast, I make sure I get a nice slab of fat from the butcher to put on top of it, to keep the meat moist and give me a lovely pan for gravy.

I get really annoyed at the concept of "fat free" cream -- pardon? Take the fat out and you have skim milk. To get something that looks like cream, you add junk. I wouldn't know if it tastes or behaves at all like cream, because I won't insult my body with it.
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post #16 of 30
7/13/09 at 7:07pm
My rule is eat things in moderation - not too much or too little of each food group and you should pretty much be ok.
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post #17 of 30
7/13/09 at 8:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willowy View Post
Ah, the best eating advice I ever heard was "Eat real food. Not too much." .
Yes! Common sense, portion control, real/living food, some exercise, be happy! live a healthier life.
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post #18 of 30
7/13/09 at 9:10pm
there's a great book out by Kevin Trudeau called "natural cures they don't want you to know about".
a friend's mom passed away during bypass surgery a few years back. she never smoked, drank, always ate right and her cholestorol was always 'normal'. in the book i mentioned it said it's not the numbers that matter but whether your arteries are scarred so the cholesterol sticks to the arterie walls.
growing up in germany i ate a lot of pork and fatty foods but the pigs were raised by my dad and all the veggies and fruit came from mom's garden. hardly anything was processed. a lot of people in our town of 2000 people lived to be 80-90 years and hardly anybody had cancer. my mom still lives there, she's 75 and she said all of a sudden a lot of people have cancer. a lot more people eat processed foods, that can't be good for you.
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post #19 of 30
7/14/09 at 5:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rapunzel47 View Post
I won't say I use no processed foods, but I'd better be able to pronounce everything on the ingredients list, have most of it on hand regularly, and see sugar and salt fairly far down the list, and the word "hydrogenated" nowhere. At that point, if it's tasty, provides convenience, and doesn't cost the earth, it's welcome. Such products are becoming easier to find, but I don't go looking for them because, basically, we eat fresh foods prepared from scratch. I use butter and cream and cheese, and when I'm doing a roast, I make sure I get a nice slab of fat from the butcher to put on top of it, to keep the meat moist and give me a lovely pan for gravy.

I get really annoyed at the concept of "fat free" cream -- pardon? Take the fat out and you have skim milk. To get something that looks like cream, you add junk. I wouldn't know if it tastes or behaves at all like cream, because I won't insult my body with it.

This is pretty much how I feel as well. We go the extra "mile" to buy milk from a local dairy that is not full of additives and preservatives and their whipping cream is just that - cream and milk - nothing else. No ingredients that you cannot pronounce or spell. For sausages we go to a little local place that make all their own sausages and have their own meat case of local meat. There is no comparison in taste. On the weekends their parking lot is full and you have to park on the side of the county road and walk back. But, oh the walk is worth it. They also have truly home-made pies that are delicious. I make a great pie and these are pretty close to my own.
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post #20 of 30
7/14/09 at 3:37pm
Lard is good for you . Better than the fake stuff anyway: http://www.slate.com/id/2219314/
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post #21 of 30
7/17/09 at 11:40am
Having very low cholesterol is bad for you. People with low cholesterol are more likely to commit suicide, die a violent death or engage in risk seeking behaviour. Criminals tend to have a lower cholesterol level than the general population.

Another reason to have an egg and bacon sandwich.
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post #22 of 30
7/19/09 at 2:39am
I have a weight problem and I firmly believe it's rooted in several years of my childhood/teenage years in which my mom rarely cooked and our food groups were Taco Bell, Burger King, and "stick it in the microwave." The funny thing is, she was also ridiculously controlling about the crappy foods we got, and expected my sister and me to split a pack of ramen for dinner (and not by adding stuff to it) because the pack said it was two servings. I use cheeseburger cravings to monitor my tendency toward anemia, so at least some good came of it. Unfortunately, my "comfort food" still tends to be Taco Bell.

I try to restrict takeout and nukeable stuff, but it's really hard to stick to that when I can afford to eat out...it just comes so naturally because it's how I was raised, and as you can imagine I didn't grow up with much in the way of cooking skills that way, although I'm trying to learn now because I do actually like food that's made out of food instead of bizarre chem lab stuff. I'm going to stick to the 1% milk though, because the 2% feels like a clog in my throat when I try to drink it.
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post #23 of 30
7/25/09 at 9:32am
I am suspicious of all the food we eat!

Years ago everything we ate was not only made from "scratch" without pre-processing, but everything was also organic.

I am particularly suspicious of animal protein. Now, so that the growers can make more money, there is an emphasis to fatten up meat and poultry using corn and high fat foods, as well as hormones so that the animal weighs more, resulting in higher profits. All this "engineering" via additives, fertilizers, hormones etc. cannot be the most healthy for us. I think it is not only contributing to obesity, disease and early onset of puberty compared to years past.
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post #24 of 30
7/25/09 at 10:42am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty's Mom View Post
I am suspicious of all the food we eat!

Years ago everything we ate was not only made from "scratch" without pre-processing, but everything was also organic.

I am particularly suspicious of animal protein. Now, so that the growers can make more money, there is an emphasis to fatten up meat and poultry using corn and high fat foods, as well as hormones so that the animal weighs more, resulting in higher profits. All this "engineering" via additives, fertilizers, hormones etc. cannot be the most healthy for us. I think it is not only contributing to obesity, disease and early onset of puberty compared to years past.
Yes I am at a loss for what to do to be healthy because I may be trying to avoid processed foods and eat mostly healthy fats, but when I buy meat at the grocery store it comes from god knows what kind of farm where cows are given growth hormones and they are also given meat mixed in with their usual herbivorous diet to fatten them up...
Even the stuff that is labeled as organic isn't...The only way to really eat natural stuff is to crop everything and raise your own animals...and i know i'm not doing that. So the more I get into this the more I develop fatalistic thinking- I will die of something one day anyway so I might as well just eat what I normally do.
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post #25 of 30
7/29/09 at 8:53am
Last year I started seeing a holistic doctor because I felt my new GP wasn't taking my concerns seriously. I explained to the GP that I felt I was having hypothryoid symptoms, and he said, to me, "Well, I don't think you do but we'll test you anyway." My TSH number was 7.95, when the top of the TSH range was 4.2. He immediately put my on Synthroid and that was that in his mind.

So I did research, found a holistic doctor who pays more attention to the symptoms you're having, rather than just the number on the chart. And you know what? Best decision I ever made. Not only did he put me on Armour thyroid (when they started producing the drug again), but he also told me, "Cut the carbs, and buy the book Protein Power."

I'm still working on eating healthier, but the first thing I did was cut my carb intake down to 55 grams a day, and keeping my protein intake around 60 grams. I'm still learning on how to eat more natural foods rather than processed, but I AM learning.

And I went frm 178lbs down to 140 (I'm 5'2" and hourglass). My carb intake is now around 80 grams a day (protein the same), to maintain.

What will this mean for me in the future? My risk for Type II diabetes has decreased, because my weight and carb dependancy has decreased. I'm only 27, but changing my lifestyle NOW will keep me on track when I'm in my mid-40s (the age when my mother, her mother, and her mother's mother were all diagnosed with Type II diabetes).

So, as time goes on, I'll cut out more processed foods, incorporate more natural ones, and continue to get healthier.
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post #26 of 30
8/4/09 at 10:56am
I'm confused.... I have to go to the Dr. in a few minutes because my cholesterol came in at 324, and 250 bad cholesterol in the mix. He is calling me in on the carpet to have a chat with me because I haven't been taking my meds for cholesterol and it has got worse by almost 100 points in a year. My brother had a heart attack when he was 45 and died when he was 47. If I could go without using cholesterol meds I would because they can be harmful to your liver.

I take Thyroid meds for the past 21 years because I have hypothyroid. I would never mess with that medicine because I remember what I felt like when they discovered my problem. I thought about doing the natural thyroid you get from the health food store but I was told that it's to hard to regulate. I don't know who to believe anymore. All I know is I am getting older and all the little things I took for granted are catching up to me now. I used to be thin in my 20's and 30's, when the change of life started everything shifted and I have to go on a diet. I'm riding my bike 5 miles a day now and realize that this getting getting healthy stuff is hard to do!
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post #27 of 30
8/4/09 at 11:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by abbycats View Post
I'm confused.... I have to go to the Dr. in a few minutes because my cholesterol came in at 324, and 250 bad cholesterol in the mix. He is calling me in on the carpet to have a chat with me because I haven't been taking my meds for cholesterol and it has got worse by almost 100 points in a year. My brother had a heart attack when he was 45 and died when he was 47. If I could go without using cholesterol meds I would because they can be harmful to your liver.

I take Thyroid meds for the past 21 years because I have hypothyroid. I would never mess with that medicine because I remember what I felt like when they discovered my problem. I thought about doing the natural thyroid you get from the health food store but I was told that it's to hard to regulate. I don't know who to believe anymore. All I know is I am getting older and all the little things I took for granted are catching up to me now. I used to be thin in my 20's and 30's, when the change of life started everything shifted and I have to go on a diet. I'm riding my bike 5 miles a day now and realize that this getting getting healthy stuff is hard to do!
I dunno what they have at the health food store. Armour Thyroid is natural but it's prescribed. More information is here: http://www.armourthyroid.com/cons_aboutArmour.aspx.

My mom took Synthroid for two decades, but was told her numbers were finally normal. She still had all the symptoms. It wasn't until she started seeing my doctor and adding T3 to her regime (doctor prescribed, of course) that she noticed a huge difference. Now that Armour is back in production, she and I are both taking it.

I would NEVER EVER suggest that anyone mess with their thyroid medication outside of a doctor's guidance. Thyroid hormones affect so many aspects of our body.

Here are some vibes for your checkup, though. I hope you can come up with a good solution for you cholesterol.
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post #28 of 30
8/4/09 at 11:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by emrldsky View Post
I dunno what they have at the health food store. Armour Thyroid is natural but it's prescribed. More information is here: http://www.armourthyroid.com/cons_aboutArmour.aspx.

My mom took Synthroid for two decades, but was told her numbers were finally normal. She still had all the symptoms. It wasn't until she started seeing my doctor and adding T3 to her regime (doctor prescribed, of course) that she noticed a huge difference. Now that Armour is back in production, she and I are both taking it.

I would NEVER EVER suggest that anyone mess with their thyroid medication outside of a doctor's guidance. Thyroid hormones affect so many aspects of our body.

Here are some vibes for your checkup, though. I hope you can come up with a good solution for you cholesterol.
Armour Thyroid sounds like the way to go since it's all natural. Is it anymore expensive than synthroid? It seems like the better meds for you are always more expensive.

Thank you for your good vibes!
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post #29 of 30
8/4/09 at 4:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by abbycats View Post
Armour Thyroid sounds like the way to go since it's all natural. Is it anymore expensive than synthroid? It seems like the better meds for you are always more expensive.

Thank you for your good vibes!
It's comparable in price with my insurance. I have great health coverage, so both are under $5 for a 30-day supply.
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post #30 of 30
8/4/09 at 4:33pm
Not to be a party pooper or anything, but this thread is about diet, not meds. Side conversations of that sort should be in PMs or another thread. Could we get back to the original topic, please? Thanks.
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